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YPang
United States4024 Posts
What would you do vs a zerg that mass turtles then goes heavy on ultras? Unlike PvT, if the Terran turtles you can wait take expos and mass arbs or carriers to defeat their 200/200 army. But with zergs its much harder to deal with mass ultra lings.. :S | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9105 Posts
There's also the option of going reaver/sair but I dunno how to do that. | ||
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Aurious
Canada1772 Posts
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
should work pretty well i guess. | ||
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Schiller
Germany308 Posts
and the zerg just kills you with mass mass mass mass lings running everywhere in your bases | ||
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Zherak
Norway256 Posts
Regardless of what you do, you need to get multiple gas expansions, preferably well Cannon'ed and choked. 1: Carrier switch. Get upgrades and 5 StarGates, spread HTs around your expansions, lose some Zealots and get Carriers going. If your defences are good enough, there is nothing he can do about you sniping all his expansions, though Defiler/Hyd can be a bitch. Remember Corsairs for dealing with Scourge. 2: Sair/Arb switch. Get 6 Sairs and a few Arbs and air weapons. You have regular ground army with cloak and a spellcaster which is much better DA. Note: Archons are your friend. Weak to good Plague usage. 3: Mass ground. Weak to drops, plague and Zerg mobility killing your expansions. 4: Sair Reaver. Trashes Zerg melee and has awesome mobility. There is no reason for you to lose seeing as you have more, heavily cannoned expansions and he has no way of dealing with Sair/Reaver/HT/Cannons. There are thousands of ways to simply compete with his mass ground army, but the most common problem is losing expansions because of Zerg mobility. Either Sair/Reaver, Sair/Arb, Sair/DT or Sair/Carrier takes away this advantage from Zerg. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
He wont have almost any lings or hydras (im talking about earlygame-midgame), so constant harass is in order. More on that later. Keep your expansions at least even (gas expansions obviously). Do not ever let the zerg sneak an expo on you. But do not try too hard too early on, lurkerling can and should secure him his second expansion but do fight for anything past that. So keep a zeal or dt in every base and pay attention when the zerg kills them. You can easily force the zerg into a different playstyle by going reaver/sair early in the game or trying to take his ultraling by surprise with dt/sairs Thats also part of the constant harass i talked about first, the lack of low tech units, will allow your mass sairs and constant (and multiple >  ) drops of ht's/reavers/dtsto shine. It is specially true that if the newbie zerg gathers all his ovies above 4 spores, you can easily take over the map with a couple dts.Keep your upgrades at par, use most of your gas for hts/archons (reavers work too, but make sure to have some shuttles for them), islands are safer expos specially if you have sairs. Cannon your expos with a ht or 2, and a gateway or 2 also for blocking (and building hts/dts); turtle zergs like to backstab so you cant rely too much on your less mobile blue blob of units to defend expos. Keep your corsairs on the edge of the map (figuratively speaking) if you dont rely too heavily on reavers or dts, they will spot on drops and the zergs sweetest target is your main (gateways and tech). Thats one way i guess, end of my ranting. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
mael + storm!!! gogogo | ||
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
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w3jjjj
United States760 Posts
1st one is to push with 3 zealots, not to do any major damage but to force him make sunkens at both natural and 3rd, every 2 sunken = hatchery or 6 drones, it hurts. 2nd, do a sair/dt build with a fast robo before switching to ground, u gain complete map control and if u can pull off a dt drop before he finish ovie speed u can end the game early, regardless, take your third with dt and zealots, this should be the same timing he takes his 4th. 3rd, continue abuse your air dominance with whatever drops of your choice, meanwhile take your 4th and 5th, your main army right now should be some goons, 1 group of zealots, a few hts and dts, roam the map as usual and play defensive, no major zerg attack will come but there will be lings everywhere to delay ur expos. you don't want to make too many zealots, after the first group just mass goons with range, when you have 20 goons + the 1 group of zealots earlier and however many ht/dt u have, that will be your strongest and only attack timing cuz that's the timing zerg makes his ultra/ling switch, if you break either of his 2 sunk/lurker lines you win, if the defense is too tough just back out, don't waste units, a stronger lurker/sunk line = slower ultra/ling switch, you should be fine as long as u don't waste your army. after that its a war of starvation with toss on the defensive, your main army should be as gas intensive as possible, archons + goons + reavers (with shuttle) + hts + dts + surviving corsairs, make zealots with excess minerals but don't over invest, a maxed zealot army can't do shit, u need gas intensive units, excess minerals are best used on cannons and more expos. your main goal in late game is to secure as many expos as possible, force the zerg to attack you, and he will because he has to take down ur bases and get more of his own to win, don't move everything in a ball, leave reavers and hts at all bases so that small scale attacks won't work, large attacks can be defended with your army. carriers are bad cuz they take so much supply, u won't have big enough of a ground army to prevent zerg taking more expos, switch only if you somehow managed to lose your army >.<, in that case turtle with reavers and mass carriers/corsairs. the game is easier if u keep map control with a ground army, arbitors' stasis and recall are both game-finishing moves, if u got this far u already won anyway, the only thing they do is shorten an already-won game a little, don't rush to arbitors though, that's dangerous. me = zerg B-, what I described is from experience how B level protoss usually reacts to turtle zerg | ||
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
I don't see why would anyone ask this question with fair economy. If you can afford it, just gateway mix should handle it with well placed psi & archons hitting from sides/behind lots. I've never lost a game because I skipped doing reavers lategame - it has always been lack of good midgame economy organisation as in not expanding enough or not defending exps well enough. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On March 24 2008 05:34 Entertaining wrote: Grab some gas expos and usereavers to defend them. Then mass up an army of goons & archones. I have no idea what everyone is saying about carriers and arbs, that never works... Why would you use Dragoons to fight off a Ultraling army? They're honestly incredibly ineffective at fighting Zerglings ~_~ Just spend all your vespene into making High Templars and morph ALL of them into Archons and spend the rest of your minerals on taking expansions and saturating them with Cannons and then spend the rest of the minerals on Zealots. You can mix in a few High Templars for Storm or Dark Archons for Mael but honestly it's just not even worth it most of the time | ||
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LeLe
8 Posts
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Owl
145 Posts
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Response
United States1936 Posts
On March 24 2008 21:24 Equinox_kr wrote: Why would you use Dragoons to fight off a Ultraling army? They're honestly incredibly ineffective at fighting Zerglings ~_~ Just spend all your vespene into making High Templars and morph ALL of them into Archons and spend the rest of your minerals on taking expansions and saturating them with Cannons and then spend the rest of the minerals on Zealots. You can mix in a few High Templars for Storm or Dark Archons for Mael but honestly it's just not even worth it most of the time having goonz in your army is actually fairly strong, mainly because they deal ALOT of damage to ultras, so either target ultras wth goonz or storming lings fast so all you can attack is ultras is a pretty good way to make goonz an effective combo with other units | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
So yes goons+archons is right, but you probably won't have that much gas at that time so it's not really possible. What is important is the map type : Eigher it is easier to attack or easier to defend (due to distances and corridor sizes, islands...) So if it's easier to attack I would mass 100% goons up to like 30 with 3 ht and attack the weaker sunkened expand - frankly it is usually the Main with natural = he looses all tech and 1/2 hatches then you camp outside the second one and expand yourself. If it's easier to defend, mass expand with cannons and go heavy gas units, even defensive reavers. All this + drop abuse = mostly ht + dt drops rule, reavers eat up too many minerals in low expo counts so their aren't that good, rather use those minerals for an expansion. | ||
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kakisama
Canada82 Posts
zealot tanks and dragoons damage. Pure dragoons is reallly ineffective since ultra/ling will absolutely tear through them .... i've tried ... and the occational DT mixed with mary is good since they do lots of dmg =] though i doubt you will have enough gas reaver, temps anddd Dt ... | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
Since he had to invest so much in sunken+spore+lurkers he will be behind and you should make it. So at the point he has ultra ling he will be short of hatcheries and on a narrow pathway from one of his naturals blocked by a horde of goons. Ultra+ling > Goon+temp, but it's much the opposite in narrow corridors where there is no way to flank. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On March 24 2008 21:24 Equinox_kr wrote: Why would you use Dragoons to fight off a Ultraling army? They're honestly incredibly ineffective at fighting Zerglings ~_~ As are zealots. | ||
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Aurious
Canada1772 Posts
On March 25 2008 07:02 LastWish wrote: Point is to get around 30 goons before 4 base Ultra+ling kicks in. Since he had to invest so much in sunken+spore+lurkers he will be behind and you should make it. So at the point he has ultra ling he will be short of hatcheries and on a narrow pathway from one of his naturals blocked by a horde of goons. Ultra+ling > Goon+temp, but it's much the opposite in narrow corridors where there is no way to flank. How many maps are like that though? only one that comes to my mind are older maps, and HH | ||
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