It's more sunken into the expansion allowing better defense against hydras. I suppose it would be harder to break out of a contain by the same virtue. With a slight modification

+ Show Spoiler +

If the right cannon is shifted over a bit, archons will be able to move freely to help fend off mutas. Other cannons/core shows pylon range.

azndsh

United States4447 Posts

April 01 2009 10:45 GMT

#182

Tau Cross -- these seal completely with 1 zealot and still allow dragoons to pass for 1'oclock and 5'oclock mains... the picture for the OP for 9'oclock works well

+ Show Spoiler +

goatrope

Canada41 Posts

April 01 2009 15:24 GMT

#183

Neo Harmony (aka Sword in the Moon on iCCup) is MOTW this week, so I decided to look up some VODs and copy FE formations. Three of these are exact copies of progamer wall-ins. The 5 oclock formation is copied but slightly modified: I moved the gateway right so there's only 1 square between it and the nexus. Some of these are not so great (ling all-ins are a fairly big risk) but that's just the nature of the map.

+ Show Spoiler [1 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [5 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [8 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [10 o'clock] +

Sonu

Canada577 Posts

April 05 2009 12:00 GMT

#184

why are all the forges up in the front. If they get sniped by hydras you are screwed right?

Gnojfatelob

Belgium216 Posts

April 05 2009 13:13 GMT

#185

On April 05 2009 21:00 Sonu wrote:
why are all the forges up in the front. If they get sniped by hydras you are screwed right?

These wall-ins are designed to counter any form of zergling runby. You can throw billions of zerglings at it and you will deflect them easily. The only time your forge will get sniped is when he goes all-in hydra with range, otherwise you will have enough units to hold him off. And if he goes all-in hydra, you can afford to lose a forge, if you know how to counter it well.

Amber[LighT]

United States5078 Posts

April 05 2009 17:46 GMT

#186

On April 05 2009 22:13 Gnojfatelob wrote:

Show nested quote +

Also typically your +1 will be close to finishing, so when that upgrade is done you can lose the forge if need be, but lately that hasn't been happening. Typically the Zerg will go for the cannons since they are your support defense, but if you micro your zealots correctly in time for storm, you can deflect the first rush rather easily. If they do target your forge you can target storm them, and even make a new forge in your main, since when your +1 is done you would want to get your second forge up for additional upgrades

Amber[LighT]

United States5078 Posts

April 28 2009 22:20 GMT

#187

So I'm bumping this to see if anyone has any placement suggestions for Outsider? I tried a couple, but they require a bit of well placed buildings and a lot of luck to pull off. Basically for the 1 oclock position (the easiest IMO) you can do a gateway over forge and place the cannons as I have. They defend every building including the natural mineral line. You only need 1-2 probes to block, and the matrix between the pylon and the cannon is enough for archons and dragoons to pass. The other two positions I had a bit more trouble maneuvering. The wall-ins I came up with are in the following screenshots, but for the one at 9 o'clock I'm weary of because of that huge gap. The forge/gateway combo didn't really work in any position. Zerglings were able to get around the buildings anyway I put it. I figured it would be best to keep the gateway and the forge closer to the top since the ramp is north of the expansion. The cannons are more-or-less arbitrarily placed as I couldn't find the best position for them with the wall, which isn't perfect. You need a probe wedged between the wall and the buildings to stop zerglings from entering.

+ Show Spoiler [1 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [5 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [9 o'clock] +

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

April 29 2009 01:19 GMT

#188

God's Garden (not sure if these are the most optimal walls)

+ Show Spoiler +

RedTerror

New Zealand742 Posts

April 29 2009 01:32 GMT

#189

On April 29 2009 10:19 CharlieMurphy wrote:
God's Garden (not sure if these are the most optimal walls)

+ Show Spoiler +

How to you propose to get you're units out?

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

April 29 2009 04:21 GMT

#190

I'm sorry, It was just a bad attempt to confuse protoss so I can rape them with Z

Kentor

United States5784 Posts

April 29 2009 04:53 GMT

#191

On April 29 2009 13:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
I'm sorry, It was just a bad attempt to confuse protoss so I can rape them with Z

rofl.... terrible

MuR)Ernu

Finland768 Posts

April 29 2009 06:37 GMT

#192

i tend to like to make wallins that protect the choke to my main also. I usually do so in outsider as well.

Haven't tried if my wallins work vs allin lings or anything thoug

stevethemacguy

United States137 Posts

April 29 2009 15:07 GMT

#193

On April 29 2009 10:32 ViruX wrote:

Show nested quote +

How to you propose to get you're units out?

Agreed. I did something very similar to this 1 oclock FE just spur of the moment the first time I tried God's Garden and it was terrible. My units kept getting stuck when they moved through the probe line. That said, I don't think FE is the best build on this map anyway (judging by the few pro games we've seen so far).

Nytefish

United Kingdom4282 Posts

April 30 2009 19:25 GMT

#194

On April 29 2009 07:20 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm bumping this to see if anyone has any placement suggestions for Outsider? I tried a couple, but they require a bit of well placed buildings and a lot of luck to pull off. Basically for the 1 oclock position (the easiest IMO) you can do a gateway over forge and place the cannons as I have. They defend every building including the natural mineral line. You only need 1-2 probes to block, and the matrix between the pylon and the cannon is enough for archons and dragoons to pass. The other two positions I had a bit more trouble maneuvering. The wall-ins I came up with are in the following screenshots, but for the one at 9 o'clock I'm weary of because of that huge gap. The forge/gateway combo didn't really work in any position. Zerglings were able to get around the buildings anyway I put it. I figured it would be best to keep the gateway and the forge closer to the top since the ramp is north of the expansion. The cannons are more-or-less arbitrarily placed as I couldn't find the best position for them with the wall, which isn't perfect. You need a probe wedged between the wall and the buildings to stop zerglings from entering.

+ Show Spoiler [1 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [5 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [9 o'clock] +

Here's what I tried, 1 and 5 aren't really improvements but 9 might be a bit better.

+ Show Spoiler [1 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [5 o'clock] +

+ Show Spoiler [9 o'clock] +

Hiicantpk

Canada72 Posts

May 06 2009 12:43 GMT

#195

if you want, i can probably get you some wallins on BGH.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28552 Posts

May 06 2009 13:09 GMT

#196

its not a problem if you have to kill 1 cannon to get out.. really, that doesnt affect you at all, the cannons are necessary early game but if you still need them in mid or late game you're almost always losing anyway.

icJuice

United States41 Posts

May 09 2009 18:10 GMT

#197

forgive my ignorance, but how are you guys practicing these wall ins? is there a UMS map that lets you control both races or something?

Nytefish

United Kingdom4282 Posts

May 09 2009 22:05 GMT

#198

Single player +

black sheep wall
operation cwal
food for thought
show me the money
power overwhelming
modify the phase variance
the gathering

Make a DA and mind control the cpu zerg.