Well, your argument is correct in the terran case, because the 25%/50% splash damages add up considerably. But the point is that the bonuses for terran are very significant.
It's not like having toss 3 armor / 3 shield somehow cancels out with the terran's 3 attack. Far from it. I'd even say that 3/3 terran vs 3/3/3 p is slightly better (for T) than 2/2 terran vs 2/0/0 toss.

EmS.Radagast

Israel280 Posts

September 03 2007 20:11 GMT

#42

Actually I exaggerated a bit in that last post. It's actually the other way around, but the difference is very small. let's say that one level of armor/shield grades cancels out roughly 0.4 of the terran's attack grades

Epicfailguy

Norway893 Posts

September 07 2007 16:59 GMT

#43

Thanks alot for the help =)
I was on the edge of quitting starcraft today, couse I simply cant handle this.
Ive only played for 2 months, but its really depressing to get owned by terran over and over and over again.

Hopefully this guide will help me, so Ill keep trying.

WastedYouth

United States563 Posts

September 07 2007 22:16 GMT

#44

you can beat this into the ground and talk in circles for pages upon pages but the fact of the matter is you can only improve w/ practice and trying unique things. Upgrade faster, get ht faster, get arbiters faster. The only thing u can do is learn better timing and micro and that only comes with tons of practice.

nuclear_scarab

United States43 Posts

September 14 2007 19:14 GMT

#45

Awesome guide, although now I am late for work. Any sort of advise on HT tactics in breaking pushes would be great to hear

fanatacist

10319 Posts

September 14 2007 22:43 GMT

#46

On September 03 2007 10:41 vstar wrote:
I loved it. Could you show us some replays? Of breaking out a Terran push

fanatacist

10319 Posts

September 14 2007 23:48 GMT

#47

On September 15 2007 04:14 nuclear_scarab wrote:
Awesome guide, although now I am late for work. Any sort of advise on HT tactics in breaking pushes would be great to hear

http://teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?type=games&id=7678&part=vod&video_part=1

Towards the end of part 2.

TeNken.1

United States226 Posts

September 15 2007 07:10 GMT

#48

Very interesting, even for a terran player. Thanks!

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

October 04 2007 00:12 GMT

#49

UPDATE:

- Updated Beaver appendix with neat pics (^.^)
- Fixed some random typos.
- I will update this thing at least once more ^^

I would also love someone to update the thread title to match the current paradigm.

Aurious

Canada1772 Posts

October 04 2007 00:18 GMT

#50

EDIT: err didn't notice original date XD my bad nice guide though

kidd

United States2848 Posts

October 04 2007 18:43 GMT

#51

On September 01 2007 10:02 houseurmusic wrote:
nice guide

would you mind uploading the ums map?

Chill

Calgary25981 Posts

October 04 2007 21:56 GMT

#52

Edited title to follow new standards.
Very nice guide by the way.

-orb-

United States5770 Posts

October 06 2007 05:19 GMT

#53

Wow that's great. I'm a big noob, and I didn't know about the flankmove trick in section 5.1

That helps out a TON. I always thought you had to manually micro each individual goon into place to get your guys into a line.

rpf

United States2705 Posts

March 05 2008 03:37 GMT

#54

Wow, this is awesome.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Do most P players not hotkey different units together? The guide says to hotkey goons together and zealots together, and not to mix them. Is this how most players do it, or is this a preference thing?

2. Is a shuttle with zealots considered to be necessary to break a push?

3. Are obs hotkeyed into unit groups or are they just distributed throughout the map and manually controlled as needed? (I often lose obs attack-moving into a push, and so I'm curious how others do it.)

rpf

United States2705 Posts

March 05 2008 15:00 GMT

#55

Bump. Can someone answer my questions?

Chill

Calgary25981 Posts

March 05 2008 15:11 GMT

#56

1. Both. Do whichever you want.
2. Not necessarily; situational.
3. Both.

Avius

Iraq1796 Posts

March 05 2008 15:12 GMT

#57

Yo rpf!

1. I usually have a full zealot group, a full goon group and then mixed groups. I think a pair of zealot and goon groups are somewhat necessary so you can move in your zeals close to the tanks. I think it is a preference thing, but I find it easier my way. I mean if you're fast with your mouse, you can double click zeals before going into battle etc. But I prefer doing 1 click click click (into tanks) 2a3a4a and then see if I can micro more with mouse-control.

2. I don't know if it is "necessary" to have a shuttle with zeals, but it is damn helpful. I mean if you stand there being contained/sieged to death and there is no flank option for you whatsoever, then yes, I'd say a shuttle with zeals is essential to breaking the push. Or you have an arbiter with stasis :O

3. With my first 2-3 obs I usually control them manually. If they get more and more I always try to stick one (right click on goon) on my goons and maybe have 1 with my mixed groups at 3~4. But when I put it into a group, as you said, I lose it to attack move mostly. So I'm trying it with stick/manual control.

Hope I could help out. Oh, I'm no pro btw :D

Avius

Iraq1796 Posts

March 05 2008 15:17 GMT

#58

I think this was my first real contribution on the strategy forum aka. Chill's Domain. I'm so proud, maybe I'll shed a tear....... and rpf come play dota with me

rpf

United States2705 Posts

March 05 2008 15:49 GMT

#59

Thanks.

Alright, so when you're engaging a T push:

1. Have obs positioned to see mines and the push itself
2. Attack-move goons to take first tank volley and deal with mines
3. Run zealots through to the tanks

My biggest problem in PvT, I think, is that when I engage a push I don't always know what to do. I try to put zealots on tanks, but rarely do they make it past the mines, tank shots, and vults, so I end up fighting the vults, and then the tanks get free shots on the remainder of my army.

I still need to work on my unit control.