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! [G] PvT - A beginner push breaker guide - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Elwood Blues
Profile Joined February 2007
United States261 Posts
September 01 2007 17:32 GMT
#21
This is an excellent guide, thanks
move over rover, let jimi take over
nM-BlacK-
Profile Joined August 2007
8 Posts
September 02 2007 10:03 GMT
#22
Yeah that was a pretty decent guide. well done
Lollipops lollipops everywhere, come have a taste. dont jus stop and stare^_^ When sMi.Stalife reads this he will shit the bed!!
aeronexus
Profile Joined June 2007
United States392 Posts
September 02 2007 11:00 GMT
#23
curses! my life is becoming more difficult
10 points!
JensOfSweden
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Cameroon1767 Posts
September 02 2007 13:45 GMT
#24
Wow, very nice! I don't wanna see a D toss after this on ICCUP anymore.
<3 Nada [On and off TL.net since 2002
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
September 02 2007 14:21 GMT
#25
Nice guide .

A common mistake I see in PvT (which is not explicitly mentioned in your guide) is where the protoss sends his zealots in, and they are all clumped together into groups. Then when this group hits a mine, the whole group takes damage, and similarly tank splash hits all of them.

So, I think you should mention this mistake explicitly under the part about avoiding splash damage: when your zealots run in, you should try to keep them spread apart to avoid tank and mine splash. For example, it helps to put a handful of your zealots ahead of the rest, so that the splash damage that hits them won't touch the rest of your zealots.

Another trick I like to do is, whenever I have to move somewhere blindly (i.e. without obs to detect mines), I always make sure to send one or two units ahead of the rest, so that if they run into any mines, those units will be the only ones that take damage. Although I guess that's more for a general PvT guide .
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
September 02 2007 15:50 GMT
#26
On September 02 2007 23:21 Bill307 wrote:
Nice guide .

A common mistake I see in PvT (which is not explicitly mentioned in your guide) is where the protoss sends his zealots in, and they are all clumped together into groups. Then when this group hits a mine, the whole group takes damage, and similarly tank splash hits all of them.

So, I think you should mention this mistake explicitly under the part about avoiding splash damage: when your zealots run in, you should try to keep them spread apart to avoid tank and mine splash. For example, it helps to put a handful of your zealots ahead of the rest, so that the splash damage that hits them won't touch the rest of your zealots.

Another trick I like to do is, whenever I have to move somewhere blindly (i.e. without obs to detect mines), I always make sure to send one or two units ahead of the rest, so that if they run into any mines, those units will be the only ones that take damage. Although I guess that's more for a general PvT guide .


Urgh, I've encountered SO many games when my Zealots clumped (I remember a game vs ilovezil, he was containing me and my Zealots were stuck behind my Dragoons; the Zealots died before the Dragoons -__-;

The tip about having Zealots ahead is sometimes ineffective; what happens if they die before they get there?

Anyways, I enjoyed reading BluzMan's army organization method. :O
^-^
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
September 02 2007 16:33 GMT
#27
Thank you. I am not really a new player but my weakness is by and large PvT. I bookmarked htis. Thank You
Liquid | SKT
EpiK
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5757 Posts
September 02 2007 16:48 GMT
#28
I like how you write. Very clear and thorough.
Seraphim
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States4467 Posts
September 03 2007 00:42 GMT
#29
Nice guide Nyre :D
Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!
vstar
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Korea (South)693 Posts
September 03 2007 01:41 GMT
#30
I loved it. Could you show us some replays? Of breaking out a Terran push
DeadVessel
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States6269 Posts
September 03 2007 01:52 GMT
#31
Very cool Bluzman this is now bookmarked : ].
OrderlyChaos
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1115 Posts
September 03 2007 02:20 GMT
#32
Very nice guide. I don't even play Toss or Terran except when I feel like doing something weird, and I find this guide very well written and informative.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-03 04:41:21
September 03 2007 04:40 GMT
#33
I like your guide a lot, however, I don't agree with grouping Dragoons and Zealots separately. I think it's better to group a few units of everything in the same group because as many have mentioned above (as well as your post), Zealots tend to clump a lot during battles. If grouped in the same group, it's more likely that they'll clump due to the "magic box". It's just easier to flank and control if they were grouped with everything else.

That's what I feel anyway.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
September 03 2007 09:25 GMT
#34
There are pros and cons, probably. You might get a more "natural" spread of units this way, but what you lose is the ability to select and control your units after you've engaged. Microing during the battle is also very important. I feel that being able to quickly select the desired units is important, but I guess that your point has it's own merit.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Taiche *
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
France1963 Posts
September 03 2007 09:36 GMT
#35
Great guide, thanks a lot
Could you upload your UMS map somewhere please ?
Manifesto7 Uses ReXplorer, and so should you! : http://repasm.net/rx/
axel
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
France385 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-03 11:38:25
September 03 2007 11:26 GMT
#36
most common Pvt errors :

- not enough goons ( u should have always 3 groups 12 goon minimum when u are near 200) compared to zealots.

- not enough upgrades
( terrans do more and more very fast upgrades and in fact in most of games i see terran usually ends the game with 3-3 when protoss got a slow 2-2-0 or 2-1-0..it should be the contrary) . If terran is 3-3 P with 3-3-3 upgrade should be a must.

- not enough gates :

considering u are not progammer and u dont have enough multitasking skills u may not be able to produce units constantly without queuing AND during battling .So u will need a lot more gates than progamers , If u plan to do massive ground force u should have at least 12 gates and i would say on some maps more than 20 is not abusive.


last mistake (i do often) when u plan a big charge (in a midlle of luna for exemple) it's always better to put your zeallots squads on "wings" of your formation , goons hits vultures and the mines then comes the zealots from right and left to hit tanks. Usually the listake is to mix them between goons or worst under goons , so they will bug with goon "walling" line and be longer to go on tanks.
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
September 03 2007 12:53 GMT
#37
Very nice read, thanks. Sums up a lot of the critical ideas vs the push.
Arcanis_Li
Profile Joined December 2006
United States37 Posts
September 03 2007 17:10 GMT
#38
Nice read, should be moved to the recommended thread
EmS.Radagast
Profile Joined November 2004
Israel280 Posts
September 03 2007 19:12 GMT
#39
toss +3 armor/shield is simply useless and provides almost no benefit over 3-0-0, this was reiterated many times over, better use the gas for carriers, arbiters, shuttle speed tech, obs upgrades, or hell, even ht. The 3 armor and shield grades cost a total of nearly 1.5k/1.5k and have no effect on damage taken from mines and tanks. Even against vults, it hardly makes any difference.

The only legitimate use for 3 shield is against gols. It might be a nice addition if you go carriers, though I doubt you'll have money for shield + dual core grades (air weapon/armor) + carriers.
I know its not THREE-DEE!!
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
September 03 2007 19:24 GMT
#40
What I love in these arguments is that those who say +3 armor does nothing forget that +3 weapons for terran also don't change the number of hits terran requires to do to kill whatever. Still 3 tank shots for goons, 4 for zealots.

It's all in the splash.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
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