• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:40
CEST 12:40
KST 19:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall11HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL79
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 738 users

A Simple Analysis on JangBi's PvT - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
fefil
Profile Joined July 2019
92 Posts
September 10 2019 16:19 GMT
#21
On September 10 2019 07:36 WilliamBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2019 01:48 fefil wrote:
Yeah honestly I never get storm in PvT in favor of more arbiters or zealot shuttles. Microing minedragging, zealot bombs, statis, dodging emps, saving observers is already enough. I don't need storm on top of all that, not that i've tried.

Besides I would rather have a shuttle full of zealots than 2 HT anyway. anyone else agree?

On the other hand, you can get storms out before the arbiters or carriers arrive and that may be an option to halt the terran timing push by storming the tanks just like in the Jangbi vs Flash clips in the above.


wouldnt it just be more reliable if you had 3 shuttles of zealots rather than psi storm before arbiter tech?
WilliamBlue
Profile Joined May 2019
26 Posts
September 11 2019 02:57 GMT
#22
On September 11 2019 01:19 fefil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2019 07:36 WilliamBlue wrote:
On September 10 2019 01:48 fefil wrote:
Yeah honestly I never get storm in PvT in favor of more arbiters or zealot shuttles. Microing minedragging, zealot bombs, statis, dodging emps, saving observers is already enough. I don't need storm on top of all that, not that i've tried.

Besides I would rather have a shuttle full of zealots than 2 HT anyway. anyone else agree?

On the other hand, you can get storms out before the arbiters or carriers arrive and that may be an option to halt the terran timing push by storming the tanks just like in the Jangbi vs Flash clips in the above.


wouldnt it just be more reliable if you had 3 shuttles of zealots rather than psi storm before arbiter tech?


It depends on your preference. Storms destroy clumped units faster than zealot bombs. It would be better if you can add the leg enhancements upgrade to zealots and storm drop clump of tanks in my opinion.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
September 11 2019 07:03 GMT
#23
JangBi is the best PvT player of all time (imo) even if I hate hbim for beating FanTaSy I've gotta respect the hustle. The lack of gateways is honestly something I see even from a lot of current pros, it never used to be a problem but maybe it's just the timing of the push has changed. I think the old major push timing was 3/2 - now people are pushing at 2/1 which comes out a lot quicker.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
ajmbek
Profile Joined November 2008
Italy460 Posts
September 11 2019 14:41 GMT
#24
On September 10 2019 16:16 WilliamBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2019 15:43 RWLabs wrote:
Plastering cannons around your Nexus isn't something you do voluntarily, it's something you're forced to do.


But I don't see it done often in PvT, even in pro matches, perhaps only in PvZ (where cannons are plastered at the entrance of the second main together with gateway,forge to form a blockade). I mean the players would rather pull the probes and send in reinforcements to counter the vultures rather than to sacrifice some minerals to fortify the base with cannons based on my observation. Perhaps, they (the players) feel that it is a waste of resources to plaster cannons around the Nexus?


the problem is that vultures kills probes really fast, so you might end up loosing a lot of probes even if you have some cannons.

Also vultures with upgrades can fight some cannons.

That is why some players prefer to try to fight it with no or just 1-2 cannons per base
Sic iter ad astra
WilliamBlue
Profile Joined May 2019
26 Posts
September 13 2019 05:44 GMT
#25
On September 11 2019 16:03 Qikz wrote:
I think the old major push timing was 3/2 - now people are pushing at 2/1 which comes out a lot quicker.


It is one way to catch the Protoss off-guard and unprepared.
ArcadePlus
Profile Joined March 2012
United States44 Posts
September 16 2019 04:13 GMT
#26
The question here is, for me, what about this is unique to Janbgi? Is there something here that the other dragon's weren't doing at the time? or is there something here for contemporary high-end protoss to learn from?
WilliamBlue
Profile Joined May 2019
26 Posts
September 17 2019 14:16 GMT
#27
On September 16 2019 13:13 ArcadePlus wrote:
The question here is, for me, what about this is unique to Janbgi? Is there something here that the other dragon's weren't doing at the time? or is there something here for contemporary high-end protoss to learn from?


Well, there are two reasons here. One reason is to quash the talk on Tesagi (Terran being overpowered) in that Top Terrans like Flash and Fantasy can be beaten in a best of series, when Jangbi beat them both en route to the OSL' 11 title. Another reason is that high-end Protosses like Snow and Rain could learn a thing or two from Jangbi when facing a top terran in players like Flash, like opting for storms in key decisive battles.

[image loading]

[image loading]

You can see the contrast in the above where in decisive key moments, psi storms can really turn the tide of the battle.
lifef
Profile Joined September 2019
4 Posts
September 17 2019 22:22 GMT
#28
On September 16 2019 13:13 ArcadePlus wrote:
The question here is, for me, what about this is unique to Janbgi? Is there something here that the other dragon's weren't doing at the time? or is there something here for contemporary high-end protoss to learn from?

honestly his direction of expanding was fairly unique at the time. at least in the aforementioned series, he expanded to another main pretty much every time for his fourth base. this is to allow gateway spamming, also putting cannons at a ramp make it much easier to defend against vulture runbys.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10137 Posts
September 19 2019 15:15 GMT
#29
On September 18 2019 07:22 lifef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2019 13:13 ArcadePlus wrote:
The question here is, for me, what about this is unique to Janbgi? Is there something here that the other dragon's weren't doing at the time? or is there something here for contemporary high-end protoss to learn from?

honestly his direction of expanding was fairly unique at the time. at least in the aforementioned series, he expanded to another main pretty much every time for his fourth base. this is to allow gateway spamming, also putting cannons at a ramp make it much easier to defend against vulture runbys.

I just want to clarify that taking another main is definitely not unique.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
mrfefil
Profile Joined September 2019
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-19 18:59:47
September 19 2019 18:58 GMT
#30
On September 20 2019 00:15 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2019 07:22 lifef wrote:
On September 16 2019 13:13 ArcadePlus wrote:
The question here is, for me, what about this is unique to Janbgi? Is there something here that the other dragon's weren't doing at the time? or is there something here for contemporary high-end protoss to learn from?

honestly his direction of expanding was fairly unique at the time. at least in the aforementioned series, he expanded to another main pretty much every time for his fourth base. this is to allow gateway spamming, also putting cannons at a ramp make it much easier to defend against vulture runbys.

I just want to clarify that taking another main is definitely not unique.

definitely was at the time. i remember a lot of P (bisu, best, etc) were going for 2 base arb and trying to thin out the terrans tank line by making science vessels etc. only "recently" around 2009 did P start doing the style of making gateways in every corner of the map possible so you can flank/remax more reliably. i think that is less to do with a metagame shift and moreso the changing map pool, though.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10137 Posts
September 19 2019 19:01 GMT
#31
On September 20 2019 03:58 mrfefil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2019 00:15 Jealous wrote:
On September 18 2019 07:22 lifef wrote:
On September 16 2019 13:13 ArcadePlus wrote:
The question here is, for me, what about this is unique to Janbgi? Is there something here that the other dragon's weren't doing at the time? or is there something here for contemporary high-end protoss to learn from?

honestly his direction of expanding was fairly unique at the time. at least in the aforementioned series, he expanded to another main pretty much every time for his fourth base. this is to allow gateway spamming, also putting cannons at a ramp make it much easier to defend against vulture runbys.

I just want to clarify that taking another main is definitely not unique.

definitely was at the time. i remember a lot of P (bisu, best, etc) were going for 2 base arb and trying to thin out the terrans tank line by making science vessels etc. only "recently" around 2009 did P start doing the style of making gateways in every corner of the map possible so you can flank, remax more reliably

Sorry, no. Protoss taking another main, regardless of what build they opened with, had been common for years prior to that. In fact, one of the most infamous matches of all time, fOru vs. NaDa from 2002 is known specifically for the fact that fOru built ~55 gates on the map, taking both of the other mains. This was already a known and accepted approach to PvT back then.

Anyway, don't you have more important things to be doing right now?
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina243 Posts
October 26 2019 01:57 GMT
#32
Uh I like the idea of analysing Jangbi PvT

I don't see many tricks that makes Jangbi different from the rest. I agree with quiz that he is the best PvT ever but not because of any trick in particular.
I 'm not sure the ones listed are tricks he discovered and he used that none else was aware of.
What sets him appart from the rest is that he is(was) just better at the every important apsect of the game: a crafty player, a mechanical monster with incredible eco/macro managment, superior game sense and micro, I mean, he is The Almighty aaamrite, nothing cartoonish about his nickname.
Storm like the above is not a trick (!!), it's a prowess, anyone who can attack like that constantly may very well be able to completely replace arbiter tech with "that", I'm not sure tho, but it sounds logical to me right now.
If can't do "that" (you, me and everyone else), it seems that storm should be later aided with Arbiter or Carrier, and that's where things get complicated. The way I see it, it's just hard to pull off. But recently I've been thinking I should practice it because pre stasis pushes are very deadly sometimes, 4 zealot shuttle is just not enough.

Overall a very nice debate we are having here
My conclusion on the matter: Jangbi is awesome
Standard Queens
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs FINALS
Classic vs ClemLIVE!
Tasteless6705
Crank 1414
IndyStarCraft 190
Rex125
3DClanTV 87
IntoTheiNu 51
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #97
CranKy Ducklings70
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 6705
Crank 1414
IndyStarCraft 190
Rex 125
MindelVK 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 26386
Jaedong 3028
Pusan 725
BeSt 618
Larva 587
firebathero 578
PianO 248
Mini 216
Leta 214
EffOrt 160
[ Show more ]
Last 121
Sharp 107
ToSsGirL 102
Shinee 75
Hm[arnc] 19
Barracks 14
HiyA 10
yabsab 9
GoRush 9
SilentControl 7
IntoTheRainbow 7
Movie 2
Dota 2
XcaliburYe410
XaKoH 365
League of Legends
JimRising 474
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K426
x6flipin405
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor323
Other Games
tarik_tv19003
gofns11446
shahzam448
Happy350
crisheroes320
DeMusliM263
FrodaN221
SortOf148
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 1269
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH302
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2113
Upcoming Events
FEL
4h 20m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 20m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d
Replay Cast
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.