EPTI've tried hydras, mutas. Shit doesn't work
How the fuck do I beat mass goliath
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XERX
85 Posts
I've tried hydras, mutas. Shit doesn't work | ||
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vileChAnCe
Canada525 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On August 02 2017 08:17 XERX wrote: I've been playing Zerg they go mass factories after 1 rax fe. Whats the unit comp to counter this? I've tried hydras, mutas. Shit doesn't work Generally you'd open muta. Lurkers really can't do anything effective against early tank/gol mech. With goliath range done don't really expect to go crazy with harass. From there you'd be looking to expand quickly to at least a third and quite possibly a 4th depending on what terran is doing; and then massing hydra. If he goes pure goliath and you die, you're either just not where you need to be from a macro perspective so you either 1)Droned too hard 2)Didn't have sufficient bases (one or two is definitely not enough) 3)Too much bank The idea then is that terran will usually add a few tanks and do some sort of two base attack with tank goliath. Muta's are used to try and snipe any tanks that are out of position, and then can be used to kill the tanks in general during the fight will soaking goliath damage, and then the hydra clean through the rest. 95% chance your difficulty stems from a macro/build origin. How soon are you getting a third? How many drones and hatcheries do you have at the time he is moving out? If you're not on 30-40 drones minimum and 5 or more hatches, then you're flat out just getting outproduced. If you're getting those numbers, or more, but just don't have an army, then it might be down to a case of unit times. Zerg has a large element of unit making timing (maybe this holds for SC2 as well?) in that you generally want to spam drones until the last possible moment you can, then start flooding units. | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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jaeboss
69 Posts
On August 02 2017 08:34 L_Master wrote: 95% chance your difficulty stems from a macro/build origin. probably this, but to directly respond to your question...the only unit compositions that I can think of that doesn't counter mass goliaths are mass lurkers and mass zlings. Everything else should work. | ||
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castleeMg
Canada791 Posts
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Piste
6184 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10597 Posts
On August 02 2017 08:17 XERX wrote: I've been playing Zerg they go mass factories after 1 rax fe. Whats the unit comp to counter this? I've tried hydras, mutas. Shit doesn't work honestly it just sounds like your macro just isnt there. even pure muta beats goliath with the splash that mutas have. pure hydra or hydra ling is super good, swarm with lings are great, plague then mass lings is great, etc. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On August 02 2017 08:26 vileChAnCe wrote: this can't be serious? they have like the lowest cost efficient ground dmg. like anything on the ground should trade pound for pound on the ground.. you should be really stoked if they are massing goliaths I'm guessing that the OP is playing on an extremely low level (and welcome! It's nice to finally have new players again in Brood war). Goliaths are strong for noobs because they can attack anything, build slowly enough that they're easy to macro, and are in small enough numbers that they're easy to micro. Like L_master said the counter (like it almost always is for noobs) is to just get better at macro. Follow some sort of fast-expand build order, drone up, spend all your money. The army composition you use matters a lot less against Goliaths than just having enough units. | ||
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EsX_Raptor
United States2802 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
But seriously, post a replay | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9571 Posts
On August 02 2017 17:38 ninazerg wrote: I know a really good game where Sziky plays against Sea, and Sea goes mass goliath. You should watch it, and you'll see just how easy it is to beat mass goliath. Yeah, mass goliaths suck. Here's the VOD of that game: | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
Effort also lost to it vs Light in one of the recent ASLs. Provide a replay, and listen mainly to bakuryu  In short though, you have 2 reliable options: 1. mass mutalisks Get your third base up as soon as possible, you shouldn't need to build the 3 usual sunkens, as is necessary vs bio most of the times. Research +1 air carapace as soon as possible, saturate that third geyser, and harass "lightly". In my opinion, do not trade mutalisks for SCVs since you will need every single mutalisk. 2. Mutalisks and hydralisks. You can harass slightly harder since you'll rely more on the hydras to stop his push. Go up to 5 hatches quickly, get +1 air carapace, hydra upgrades, and +1 ranged attack asap. Do not overdrone or you will get crushed. The mutas will be there to soak up damage from goliaths while the hydralisks deal damage. If he does NOT move out after seeing you make a lot of hydras, from experience I feel it is important to attack yourself. Do not wait to attack until terran has a few siegetanks or you will regret it. In fact I still very much struggle versus this build because in the latter situation I will often destroy my economy too much preparing for that goliath push. But as I said, sometimes they delay their push even more and wait for a few tanks making all those hydras die really quickly, while your economy is in shambles preventing you from reinforcing as quickly as he can. Some extra tips: - Sunkens are great vs goliaths and can be used to buy time. - Versus greedy mech play with a low factory count, you can even Muta Ling all-in him. If you get on top of his factories with lings and mutas, it will be very hard for the terran to recover. | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
I even remember Boxer raping someone with mass goliaths against mass mutas in some old, old game. Anyway, with a slight micro goliaths > mutas. That Sea vs Sziky game shows how it works. Imagine Sea adding 2-3 tanks to that composition and Sziky would get steamrolled even faster and easier. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11928 Posts
@739 BoxeR raped prime sAviOr with mass goliaths vs mass mutas on Monty Hall. Maybe that's the game? | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On August 02 2017 22:45 c3rberUs wrote: Going mass muta versus mass goliaths? That sounds like a great idea... for the terran player. Goliaths are pretty deadly en masse. @739 BoxeR raped prime sAviOr with mass goliaths vs mass mutas on Monty Hall. Maybe that's the game? You're probably right. That's the game  | ||
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Piste
6184 Posts
On August 02 2017 22:45 c3rberUs wrote: Going mass muta versus mass goliaths? That sounds like a great idea... for the terran player. Goliaths are pretty deadly en masse. @739 BoxeR raped prime sAviOr with mass goliaths vs mass mutas on Monty Hall. Maybe that's the game? Mutas are actually really good vs goliaths. Goliaths have good ground to air single target damage, but don't let that fool you. Or Savior dropping one game to Boxer. Or Sziky losing to Sea.. Mutas are extremely strong untill there's valkyries or vessels with the goliath army. | ||
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