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Hi everyone, this is my introduction post here 
I have been a big fan and an on-an-off, very casual single-campaign player for the past 15 years. Recently I have discovered the last season of the ASL, following the SC:R hype train and that developed a motivation and ambition in me for competitive StarCraft.
So in the past month or so I've watched a lot of cast games, new and old, FPVODs, read some, listened some, made some notes and learned a lot, definitely. Also interfaced a bit with the community, but I haven't played a lot online because of my flaky WiFi connection (but that's being taken care of 😉).
I'm posting here because through Tasteosis I've learned that the whole meta is always changing, and in particular is quite different today then it was back when they were doing SC1. In short, old build orders have been overcome, phased out and are not working anymore against the contemporary ones.
Newer or older - I have never learned any build orders at all. But my favorite race has always been the mighty Zerg and I'd love to educate myself on the contemporary Zerg strategies, build orders and counters. As I'm practicing these days preparing for the upcoming ladder and I have no idea what I'm doing, except for mimicking some things I see Korean pros do.
I've learned TL is the English-language authority when it comes to things like this, so, here I am
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That's perfect! I've been reading parts of the Beginners Portal, just more of the general information, not the Zerg-specific details.
If I'll try being more clear/specific, The list of Zerg builds in the Zerg Strategy page on Liquipedia hasn't been updated since 2013. Same on TL forums, most strategy threads are from 2013 or before. I'd like to know if this strategy content, in particularly build orders, is still relevant. If not, which build orders still are?
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I think the only really "new" build is larva's late game queen usage against the Terran mech switch. Otherwise things haven't changed *that* much. Maybe lurker openings against Terran are more common than they used to be, and hydra busts against Protoss are more popular. But those aren't anything new.
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I see. Thank you Luddite for putting things in perspective!
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Practice one build in each matchup.
ZvZ: 12 pool
ZvT: 3 hatch muta
ZvP: 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra
If you play against different people they won't know you do the same exact thing every time.
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On July 13 2017 01:13 iopq wrote:
Practice one build in each matchup.
ZvZ: 12 pool
ZvT: 3 hatch muta
ZvP: 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra
If you play against different people they won't know you do the same exact thing every time.
This is solid advice. These are the best BOs to start with imho--extraorinarily balanced.
Frankly, though, if you're a beginner, fretting about BOs too much is the wrong thing to do; you want to get your mechanics to a good level, and you achieve this by sticking to fundamental principles, like not getting supply stuck, spending all of your money on anything (at first), having a healthy drone count, having a healthy hat count, staying 1 base ahead of the enemy, spreading overlords, etc.
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I wish the quality shitposts on TL actually tried to directly answer the questions asked instead of simply redirecting you to an outdated LPD, seriously Zerg builds are as easy as putting these inputs:
12 hatch, 13 pool, 14 hatch, 13 gas for heavy macro 3 hatch, adjust to get things earlier AS NEEDED. (mostly ZvT)
12 hatch, 12 pool, 13 hatch, 12 gas for a safer economical variant (mostly ZvT and ZvP)
11 hatch, 10 pool, 13 hatch (at 3rd base), 12 gas for ZvP FE to get 4 lings out in time to block the first zealot from getting in your mineral line.
9 overlord, 9 pool, 11 hatch, 13 hatch (at 3rd base), 12 gas for super safe overpool 3 hatch build ZvP
9 pool, 9 gas, scout with 9 drone after it finishes spawning to do 9pool speed or 1 hatch lair (mostly ZvZ or for cheesing T or P)
12 pool, 12 gas, 11 hatch for safe eco expand in ZvZ, but be wary of 9 pool speed timing and be prepared to pull 2 drones to help your lings fight at your natural. (ZvZ standard)
Am I missing anything? The flow of the game from the end point of any of these builds is usually situational and depends on what you scout.
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not to double post but I've heard it's cool to gas as late as 16, as long as you're willing to make up for the lack of gas with a slightly faster second gas.
16 is also 2nd overlord timing, 23-24 for 3rd, 33/35 make 3 overlords and save larvae for usually mutas, and from then on you're making like one right after the other or two at a time at least.
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Is the 9 pool (no gas) with extractor still a staple build in ZvT and ZvZ? Also in ZvP against forge FE, to force two cannons before Nexus on maps with larger rush distances?
9 pool
9 extractor (extractor trick)
8 drone
9 cancel extractor, drone back to mine
10 overlord
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No, 9 pool without speed is not a thing in ZvZ. It's a thing in ZvT and ZvP.
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Is the 9 pool (no gas) with extractor still a staple build in ZvT and ZvZ? Also in ZvP against forge FE, to force two cannons before Nexus on maps with larger rush distances?
No, 9 pool without speed is not a thing in ZvZ. It's a thing in ZvT and ZvP.
9 pool prefers if you start your overlord at 9 and THEN extractor trick to 10 drones.
There is no reason you should be posting this build order incorrectly.
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The overlord comes out in time, his build is correct
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Some of the new meta can be too hard for a new player like mech in tvz as you have to make no mistakes in volture control which also require a lot of APM.
Also corsair + dt or reaver and muta micro zerg are builds that aren't suitable for new players.
Obviously all come to your opponent skill level so if your opponent is low skill you can try out one of those high-apm pro builds but in general you are going to have hard times playing like that.
Modern meta is macro oriented while older meta were more "rush based". Some of those rush still very effective even if kind of risky so it come up to you to play with the style you feel more comfortable.
Modern progamers prefer macro style openings as they are safer and grant higher percentage of winning but still that the progaming world is very different from our world.
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Japan11286 Posts
IMO, redirecting to the outdated stuff on LP isn't so bad at his stage. What's trending in the modern metagame shouldn't be the focus so early on. The focus should be on getting the basics right like mechanics and tactics. Only when you get these things down can you actually leverage knowledge of the metagame.
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EPT
