PVP - Upgrading Reaver Damage - Page 2

On February 25 2007 11:39 oshibori_probe wrote:
If you have money after shuttle speed, get dammage, when u think about it, its going to be alot more usefull than 5 more scarabs as reavers need to be picked up, moved around alot. When u drop with damage upgrade, all the scvs/probes/drones that would have just been at 1/2 health die instead, thats alot, when u have 3 or 4 that dammage adds up.

On February 25 2007 11:21 Equinox_kr wrote:
I'm sorry - it's just I played a horrible game today (PvZ, I went Reaver/Corsairs, and the guy ended up making hordes of Queens just to Spawn Broodling all my Reavers ... then he sends a horde of lurklings vs my 5-6 Reavers T_T)

On February 25 2007 14:27 Cpt Obvious wrote:
wait. 25% splash has more range than mutalisks? O_ö

On February 24 2007 18:46 metroid composite wrote:
Let's see....

Lurkers (even with no armor upgrades) survive with 1 HP due to inherent armor.
Goliaths (even with no armor uprgrades) survive with 1 HP due to inherent armor.
Zealots are always 2HKO (although...now you can kill them with one 50% splash combined with one full damage hit).
Dragoons are always 2HKO (though again: see above about the splash+full hit...except now it depends what upgrades they have).
Reavers...see Dragoons
Tanks...see Zealots
Archons go from 4HKO to 3HKO
Dark Archons go from 3HKO to 2HKO
Ultralisks go from 5HKO to 4HKO
Dark Templar go from 2HKO to 1HKO
Photon Cannons go from 2-3HKO (depending on shield upgrade) to 2HKO
Eggs go from 3HKO to 2HKO (mmmm...omlets)

Everything else dies in one hit. HOWEVER, some stuff can survive 50% splash if you don't upgrade, but die to 50% splash if you do upgrade (SCVs, for instance).

On February 25 2007 11:21 Equinox_kr wrote:


What are you talking about - "nice analysis metroid"?

That was an EXCELLENT analysis ^_^

But IMO I would make 2 Reavers instead of wasting my vespene on upgrading this, especially in PvZ. What's the point of making your Reaver do extra damage if it dies before it's able to fire on anything?

I'm sorry - it's just I played a horrible game today (PvZ, I went Reaver/Corsairs, and the guy ended up making hordes of Queens just to Spawn Broodling all my Reavers ... then he sends a horde of lurklings vs my 5-6 Reavers T_T)

On February 25 2007 22:20 Aphelion02 wrote:


I will pay you my life savings for that rep.

On February 26 2007 07:53 Kwark wrote:
Capacity over damage?
Why would you want that?
Anything that is still there after 5x125 isn't going away any time soon. Damage is crucial.

On February 25 2007 17:06 metroid composite wrote:

The diameter--as in the distance from the very edge of the 25% splash to the opposite edge on the exact other side of the explosion--is wider than Mute range is long. The radius from the center of the explosion to the edge of the 25% will be half that, of course.

Incidentally, where can I look up splash radius numbers? I've never seen them listed before....

On February 26 2007 08:03 BluzMan wrote:
People always bring the same question with armor upgrade PvT.

I've been hearing stuff like "it doesn't change the number of shots to get killed, so screw it". Well, answer me then, why does terran upgrade damage in that case? Hint: no, number of shots to kill goon/zealot (and even probes) does NOT change in this case as well.

It's in the splash and multi-unit interaction. For example, you have 1 reaver and goons. Obviously, damage upgrade for reavers saves at least 1 goon shot to kill another goon, therefore, the benefit is there. Noone is gonna give you the exact formula when to get it, but when the game is long and you're using reavers on a large scale it's worth it.

For PvZ, damage upgrade is a good thing because it kills hydras in many situations. For example, two reavers shoot a bunch of hydras. Let's take a hydra that takes a 50% splash hit for one reaver and 25% from another. Without damage upgrade it will be 50+25 damage, which leaves the hydra alive with 5 hp left. Bad. With damage upgrade it will be 50+12,5 + 25+6,25 = 93,75 damage which is more than enough to kill that hydra regardless of the armor upgrade amount it has. There are more situations involving second shot and/or more reavers on field. Generally, you will start to notice how more hydras that are far from the actual target will get one-hit KO'ed. So, it's worth it. Also splash weapon upgrade is always good for mixed armies, so it is useful late-game as well.

For PvP, you will get to fight mostly goons that have larger collision size than hydras (meaning less units will fit into the splash radius) and their hp value is not that close to reaver's damage. (someone could prove a theorem that any splash weapon upgrade will be the most effective when damage ~= target's hp). By the time you will get enough reavers to justify the upgrade cost, the game will probably transition into templar phase where reavers are not that effective, but if your reaver numbers are for some reason getting high, I say the upgrade is worth it.

For PvT, it's not generally what you want to do because of how much reavers get ineffective after 10 minute mark. Yes, it's fun to kill SCV with 50% splash, but staying alive is even funnier, so I'd take shuttle speed first any time. By the time I will have shuttle speed, I would generally prefer making storm drops, not reaver. So, getting that upgrade PvT for me doesn't justify the cost and, even more importantly, time invloved.

IMO, it's good PvZ, average PvP and undesireable PvT, but then again, that's just me.

On February 25 2007 14:18 lololol wrote:
You're looking at it wrong, it doesn't matter how much direct hits kill a unit, because your army is not 100% reavers and they have splash. If you're you're gonna use reavers for something more than an early drop the upgrade is very useful, thats hundreds of splash damage each battle, which allows your goons/zealots to kill the softened targets faster. The diameter of reaver splash is 40/80/120 for 100%/50%/25% damage and for comparison - mutalisk attack range is 96, so the upgrade definitely helps.