! [G] [PvZ] Basics - Page 4

[UoN]Sentinel

United States11320 Posts

December 24 2010 21:40 GMT

#61

Lol so much advice about staying calm. The opening paragraphs make me think, okay, this is my best matchup, can we get to the part about actually killing the zerg?

But ultra/ling, I find that zeals + temps with reavers works the best for me.

JMave

Singapore1805 Posts

December 25 2010 00:57 GMT

#62

this guide was made before any of that corsair action was used in play. create your own thread and post your problem then its better to help

Hautamaki

Canada1311 Posts

December 25 2010 04:24 GMT

#63

Yeah it sounds super similar to my guide from like 2002... A whole lot of advances have been made in pvz since then. The most important of course being the idea that Protoss can safely and reliably take a super fast forge first expo on many many maps. In my day, the only map you could do that was Guillotine, and for that reason Guillotine was easily my favourite pvz map. Before tosses figured out how to FE vs zerg, pvz was a nightmare, but after that advance pvz has become much more balanced imo. Of course zergs have double exped to counter, but simple math will tell you that 2:3 is way way better than 1:2. My old default pvz build was to 1 gate sair/dt expand, hold the mid game zerg harass/counter (either muta or lurker drops), then try to get to late game with an advantage in upgrades so I could handle the dreaded ultra/crax finisher. In a tourney series I'd sometimes go 2 gate sair with surprise zealot pressure (take out the scouting ovie with your first sair to supply block zerg then surprise him with a group of about 7 or 8 zealots+1goon+1sair with fast +1 upgrade (armour if I scouted has an evo chamber since zerg will get armour for his lings with that chamber and nullify your attack, and +1 armour still rocks against zergling/hydra taking away 20% of their attack power). This would come right before mutas or lurkers and allow you to get a buttload of drone kills in most cases and scout what zerg is doing. And you can still exp safely with enough cannons.

Nowadays with the new 2:3 dynamic instead of 1:2 toss has way more options. Reaver and DA play to hold your third has become viable, storm/reaver drops are now a much more valid option since you can actually afford to send a shuttle out to harass without having to worry about having enough mass at home to not get your front door kicked in by zerg's mid-game mass. You can run 2 or 3 forges much more easily. You can afford enough zealots to contain zerg or enough cannons to hold your third and enough cannons to prevent mutas from messing up all your probe lines. The only new thing zerg has developed is their defiler usage, without which this matchup would definitely be imbalanced in favour of toss right now imo. And honestly as good as defiler spells are can we really say they are better than storm, maelstrom, and reaver scarabs? This matchup has changed so much since I stopped playing competitively.

BruceLee6783

United States196 Posts

December 25 2010 04:54 GMT

#64

Wow, I didn't know you were still around Hautamaki. Remember LaZyScV? ^_^

I learned a lot about SC just from watching the two of you guys play each other, such great games...I wish I still had the replays.

I'd also like to add to the PvZ guide a bit.

1 - DO NOT power your groups of gates with a single pylon!!!!!! The reasons why should be common sense!!!

2 - DO NOT rely heavily on goon based builds...sure, they help against mutas/lurks/hydra hit-and-runs, but there are much better things to spend your cash on most of the time.

3 - Zealot raids OWN. Much like cracks can run up to your nexus and take it down in seconds, so can a pack of 12 zealots. Get leg speed and weapon upgrades, bypass the Zerg army and have him chase you everywhere...take down hatcheries, important tech buildings, etc. You may also consider killing his evo chamber, so that his carapace upgrades fall behind your weapon upgrades, making your zealots own even harder.

Hautamaki

Canada1311 Posts

December 25 2010 05:11 GMT

#65

Lazyscv was awesome, we had some fantastic games =] I remember him, and Freak, and Fox^1, The Confessor... yeah, lots of old friends. BW is so awesome =] I wish I still had the replays too =[

BruceLee6783

United States196 Posts

December 25 2010 07:24 GMT

#66

Dan's T macro was godlike, for his time. I'm still friends with him actually, and I've met him irl. He doesn't play much BW these days though.

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