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ok i just tested out neo fortes mineral efficiencies.
here are the results:
Test One-
Main base with 20 miners (2 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 5000 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 9730 minerals.
mined out at 16 mins 53 secs.
Natural Expo with 12 miners (2 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 3776 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 7616 minerals.
mined out at 12 mins 5 secs.
Test Two-
Main base with 30 miners (3 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 6100 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 12920 minerals.
mined out at 12 mins 20 secs.
Natural Expo with 18 miners (3 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 4200 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 8500 minerals.
mined out at 10 mins 44 secs.
conclusions:
As you can see having more miners on 6 patches speeds up intake of money. putting more miners on 10 patches speeds up intake of money. ill let someone else find the line where the bonus begins and stops...
adding 10 miners to your 10 patches increases your intake of money slightly at the 5 minute mark and significantly at the 10 minute mark.
adding 6 miners to your 6 patches slightly increases your intake of money at the 5 minute mark and slightly increases your intake of money at the 10 minute mark.
adding 6 miners to your expo makes it mine out roughly 2 minutes faster than the original 12.
adding 10 miners to your main makes it mine out roughly 5 minutes faster than the original 20, well worth the 500 minerals put into the extra miners.
here are the average minerals mined per minute for both bases with the miner number changes.
(MPM=minerals per minute)
-=5 minute mark=-
Main-20 miners: 1000 MPM
Main-30 miners: 1220 MPM
Expo-12 miners: 755 MPM
Expo-18 miners: 840 MPM
-=10 minute mark=-
Main-20 miners: 973 MPM
Main-30 miners: 1292 MPM
Expo-12 miners: 762 MPM
Expo-18 miners: 850 MPM
Having more miners per patch with a max of 3 [per patch] can give a decent boost in economy if thought out correctly during a game.
the major bosst appears around 10 minutes of mining.
someone else can do a test to see if having 4 miners per patch is worth the extra 500 minerals.
I hope this helped somebody...
BTW: this only applies to Neo Forte for those who did not read the other posts.
if someone REALLY wants to get accurate results they can retime the mineral agtherings in the Replay. i went AFk for like 20 minutes in the replay also.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=93F17BBA25BA57AB
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we should have a map contest to see the most effiecient mineral layout ^___^.
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I didn't know that 3 miners on each patch is the msot effecient. For me its always been 2 miners per patch is very close to optimum.
I would stick to roughly 2 or a bit more miners per patch because the extra scvs are not worth it because of their costs compared to the increased economy.
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Nice find, wonder if the pros know...
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Thanks for testing Hipnotize, it's true that you can add miners and this will improve a LITTLE your income but what about this factors:
The cost of the extra miners, a difference of 8 miners means 400 minerals
The supply that these miners consume, one pylon means 100 minerals
The time that takes to produce these extra miners.
My point is how fast can we achieve an optimal rate of gathering and then concentrate resources in army 500 extra minerals sounds interesting in early stages of the game.
skyglow 2 miners per patch should be true that are close to optimum but because of current mineral distributions the problem that I explained degrades the final income.
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On May 16 2006 16:23 Hypnotize wrote:
we should have a map contest to see the most effiecient mineral layout ^___^.
fastest possible map?
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On May 16 2006 18:28 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2006 16:23 Hypnotize wrote:
we should have a map contest to see the most effiecient mineral layout ^___^. fastest possible map?
that is about as efficient as it gets 
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On May 16 2006 16:20 Hypnotize wrote:
Test One-
Main base with 20 miners (2 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 5000 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 9730 minerals.
mined out at 16 mins 53 secs.
Natural Expo with 12 miners (2 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 3776 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 7616 minerals.
mined out at 12 mins 5 secs.
Test Two-
Main base with 30 miners (3 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 6100 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 12920 minerals.
mined out at 12 mins 20 secs.
Natural Expo with 18 miners (3 on each patch):
@5 minutes: aprox. 4200 minerals.
@10 minutes: aprox. 8500 minerals.
mined out at 10 mins 44 secs.
-=5 minute mark=-
Main-20 miners: 1000 MPM
Main-30 miners: 1220 MPM
Expo-12 miners: 755 MPM
Expo-18 miners: 840 MPM
-=10 minute mark=-
Main-20 miners: 973 MPM
Main-30 miners: 1292 MPM
Expo-12 miners: 762 MPM
Expo-18 miners: 850 MPM
Now that's a valid experiment. No offense antrax, cos I think it's only fair that numbers do the talking and 100 minerals per minute boost isn't little (Equivalent to an peon going 12 trips). Good post though, everyone learns from this thread. 
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On May 15 2006 23:02 antrax wrote:
The ones with 6 mineral patches distributed in two opposed groups of three patches each one.
I realize something interesting about this distribution. Usually the optimal number to gather minerals is 3 workers per patch with this every patch will have a worker mining all the time above this number you are wasting minerals in workers.
Turns out that the optimal number for these Neo Forte expos are exactly 12 (two workers per patch). Why is this? Because of the different distribution the problem of the wandering workers seeking for free patches to mine is eliminated, this problem causes that at some point a worker waste more time travelling to a free patch than actually mining.
Therefore the best places to expand in this map are these expos to get fast minerals with less workers, you could say the mains have more minerals (10 patches) but while you put more workers to gather the problem of the wandering workers will appear and you will need more or less 30 workers for optimal mining rather than 24 in two of these expos working 12 patches optimally. The expos at the top and bottom of this map don't have the same behavior but are close too.
How could this help a race with the capacity to make 12 workers fast? Make your experiments zergs and let us know.
This could be an interesting factor for making maps or maybe not, but there shouldn't be imbalances in mining because of the starting positions.
Enjoy your minerals.
Can't believe you guys actually think hes right with no proof or how he came to this conclusion. I've actually tested optimal number of workers for 3 patches and its 8. My friend was saying 3 workers per patch is the rule of thumb also, its actually 2.5. Knowing that you can use this formula; 3x2.5 is 7.5 = 8 . Since there is 2 sets of 3 that means 16 workers is the most optimal.
The other thing that doesn't make sense about his post is, Couldn't you just as easily take a base with 10 crystals and put 12 workers on that and get just as much money, if not more from less waiting time?
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Oh, Hypnotize sorta already beat me to it. But still its 2.5 Workers per crystal not 3. That is the most efficient way.
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Generally common sense doesn't need proofs, but it seems that this is not the case.
I made experiments and guess what it's true.
I have to analize the results to give a better explanation or interpretation, but my experiment is simple put 12 miners in the new distribution, put 12 in the mineral expansion both have 6 patches, who do you think end first?
And of course continue with another experiment, put 24 miners in a main (10 patches) and take two expos (12 patches) and 12 miners per expo, start mining at the same time.
Who will end first?
Explain ... if you can.
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Hm I did not discover a big difference between close (to each other) and loose mineral placement. No real stats though, my measurements were not accurate enough 
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EPT
