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Hello!
I want to share with you a useful trick for lategame ZvT - putting defilers in overlords to protect them against irradiate!
It costs a lot of gas, so you only want to do it in the late game when you have much money, or when you decided to get ventral sacs anyway. But once you have ventral sacs, you can ensure that your defilers always get their swarms and plagues off. They will always reach their destination!
If he irradiates your overlord, it will still take forever for the overlord to die, and you can still take your time. You can also, of course, switch to another overlord, or simply unload at the last second. Also, you can bring fake overlords.
But really, the main point is just to keep your defilers in an overlord. It's not hard to do, and it adds so much - it's just as useful as a Protoss keeping high templars in a shuttle in PvT.
It's not only good vs irradiate, but also vs siege tanks, letting you get those swarms off for your lurkers, or plagues on tank clumps!
There's no way he's gonna let a defiler walk up to a bunch of units, whether they are marines or tanks, and just plague them. But if you put the defiler in an overlord, you might be able to do just that.
It's also great for defense. Many Zergs leave a few lurkers, a defiler, and some scourge at each base. This is good, but it's easy for the terran to just send in a vessel and irradiate the defiler when you're not looking. If you keep the defiler in an overlord, he can't do that, and so your base is kept safe (You can also do the same thing with nydus canals. Keep a defiler next to the other nydus, and be ready to send it in for a "Hit and run" dark swarm. I actually saw a Zerg win by doing this for almost a full minute. The terran was ahead in supply, maxed out, had more money, and even had an even amount of bases, but he had to keep irradiating lurkers, which the zerg kept replacing, because there was always a dark swarm there due to the nydus. The Terran could have gone ghosts with nukes to win the game, but he didn't, hehe)
I've been using this trick recently, and noticed increased efficiency in my defiler usage. It's great, try it! =)
TLDR:
It protects your defilers vs irradiate
It protects your defilers vs siege tanks
It's good vs bio
It's good vs mech
It's good for offense
It's good for defense
Edit: If a Protoss gets a dark archon to feedback your defilers, you could also use this trick in ZvP, although that won't be practical as often as ZvT.
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Uh, it requires more attention/apm, requires drop upgrade, you have scourge and usually Terran switches to mech lategame so Defilers don't get used much then - especially on the offense (people generally use Defilers for defense). A good Terran will keep Defilers away from his base, so this becomes even less useful.
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Yeah, i dunno man. It seems kinda the same problem that ensnare has - it is good but takes too much apm to handle together with rest of zerg army, as Jaedong said
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On January 10 2013 21:30 quirinus wrote:
Uh, it requires more attention/apm, requires drop upgrade, you have scourge and usually Terran switches to mech lategame so Defilers don't get used much then - especially on the offense (people generally use Defilers for defense). A good Terran will keep Defilers away from his base, so this becomes even less useful.
Defilers get used vs mech all the time, dude. Lurkers under swarm is a staple part of ZvT vs mech. And like I said, you use this "when you've already gotten ventral sacs anyway". So in other words, if you decided to get ventral sacs for drops, THEN you can start doing this. And when you have 5 geysers, 200 gas isn't a big deal anymore. And yeah, you have scourge, but that doesn't keep your defilers from ever getting irradiated. This does.
Yeah, i dunno man. It seems kinda the same problem that ensnare has - it is good but takes too much apm to handle together with rest of zerg army, as Jaedong said
With all due respect, I think that's bullshit. Even I can do this. The only difference between having defilers in overlords and not having them in overlords is a few extra clicks. You need to have defilers hotkeyd normally, but now you just have the overlord hotkeyd, and you unload the defilers. That's it, it doesn't take much apm at all, unlike ensnare which is a whole new unit to micro and position. Also, when it comes to defending expansions, vs both mech and bio, having the defiler(s) in an overlord actually makes it EASIER to defend, requiring LESS attention. If you just have it standing there, you can find that he irradiated your defiler and your lurkers are dying to tanks because you weren't looking for a few seconds. If it's in an overlord, you get way more time to react.
Also, Jaedong has successfully used ensnare in ZvT, so it's not like you can't use it. It's just hard. And, even if defilers in overlords are as hard to use as ensnare (which I disagree with), it's still useful for the people who can use it. It's not something to be dismissed, it's something to strive for, because it is possible if you're good enough.
Technics agrees with me that it's good. Hehe. 
[14:17:08] TechnicS: yo [14:17:12] TechnicS: happy new year and good job, man [14:17:26] TechnicS: (about the defilers in overlords) [14:17:40] vOddy: Thank you [14:17:54] vOddy: [14:18:10] TechnicS: i usually haven't done it i think [14:18:25] TechnicS: it's something i've seen and know but when reading it i was like ' why haven't i done it' [14:19:14] TechnicS: yeah it does need a lot of attention but after some suffiencient amount of practice it might get good to use it frequently [14:19:55] vOddy: In some cases it makes you need less attention [14:19:59] vOddy: When defending expansions [14:20:01] vOddy: for example [14:20:06] vOddy: But when attacking, yes, it adds more micro [14:20:12] vOddy: But it's worth it if you can do it [14:35:51] TechnicS: yeah [14:35:51] TechnicS: def
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lol jump out of the overlord and consume it for double plague ^_^
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On January 10 2013 22:40 Warlord_Master wrote:
lol jump out of the overlord and consume it for double plague ^_^
I didn't think of that, but that's true, and could be quite useful in some situations. You could plague all the vessels instead of just half of them, for example
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On January 10 2013 22:41 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 22:40 Warlord_Master wrote:
lol jump out of the overlord and consume it for double plague ^_^ I didn't think of that, but that's true, and could be quite useful in some situations. You could plague all the vessels instead of just half of them, for example
Put 4 defilers into that very overlord and you can even plague 5 times. ;o
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More like 8 times, plague then consume
OV then plague, consume Defiler then plague consume plague consume plague
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This is actually useful vs mech. It is definitely the only way to plague tank lines. Here's how it's done:
1. Fly with ovie to near a tank line.
2. Attack with hydras
3. Since tanks usually fire in a somewhat synchronized way if, you drop the defiler and plague right after the first volley.
Important is ofc to make the plague damage as much as possible by plagueing tanks that the hydras will kill last, or simply use a few hydras to bait out the first volly to plague them for a later time.
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Yeah this is really good. I started doing it before i gave up on zvt and it helped a lot.
But do you really want to be playing zvt when terran can be 45 supply down and mech switch and still starve you out even at pro level (or at least at larva's level. I've seen him die from 50 supply leads way too much to have any faith in zerg having any chance vs terran)
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I like this idea. I've done it a couple times but not often. An idea I got was 4 defilers, 2 overlords. 2 in each one. When one overlord needs consumption for a second plague, send the 2nd over in a bit to get the defilers. Or have 4 defilers in 1 overlord and have the 2nd follow the first. 
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On January 11 2013 07:56 Jaevlaterran wrote:
This is actually useful vs mech. It is definitely the only way to plague tank lines. Here's how it's done:
1. Fly with ovie to near a tank line.
2. Attack with hydras
3. Since tanks usually fire in a somewhat synchronized way if, you drop the defiler and plague right after the first volley.
Important is ofc to make the plague damage as much as possible by plagueing tanks that the hydras will kill last, or simply use a few hydras to bait out the first volly to plague them for a later time.
That's the same way Protoss storms tanks, so why wouldn't it work for Zerg, too?
It also helps with dark swarm vs tanks, if you'd rather cast that.
Yeah this is really good. I started doing it before i gave up on zvt and it helped a lot.
But do you really want to be playing zvt when terran can be 45 supply down and mech switch and still starve you out even at pro level (or at least at larva's level. I've seen him die from 50 supply leads way too much to have any faith in zerg having any chance vs terran)
How much Terran have you played? I'm asking because it seems like you don't understand how hard TvZ is, and the advantages that Zerg has over Terran (Terran also has some over Zerg, of course).
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I especially like the 'consume overlord' part. Feels very zergy to me. Alternatively, you could keep some foodlings in there.
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Sounds more dangerous than snakes on planes.
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Please supply a rep where this is done successfully at a decent level.
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I saw Hoejja do this against Flash in one of their replays played on Destination long time ago. He didn't do it extensively, but when I saw that, I was like "that should be pretty annyoing for terran" But I guess it does take more apm and multitasking, not to mention you have to remember which overlord has it.
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Russian Federation36 Posts
very useful, but require gosu's AMP
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On January 11 2013 07:22 iNfeRnaL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 22:41 vOdToasT wrote:On January 10 2013 22:40 Warlord_Master wrote:
lol jump out of the overlord and consume it for double plague ^_^ I didn't think of that, but that's true, and could be quite useful in some situations. You could plague all the vessels instead of just half of them, for example Put 4 defilers into that very overlord and you can even plague 5 times. ;o
4 'filer hit squad?
The badass ancestor of the 4 'festor hit squad haha.
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That's some spec ops right there
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nice post thanks
will def start doing this especially if i already have drop
If you just have it standing there, you can find that he irradiated your defiler and your lurkers are dying to tanks because you weren't looking for a few seconds.
all too familiar -_-
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I have seen savior do this a lot.
One game I can think of is Savior vs Nada on Arkanoid or Arkanoid II in superfight.
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On January 13 2013 01:18 fencer wrote:
Please supply a rep where this is done successfully at a decent level.
I'm B+. Is that good enough?
If it is, I'll just give you my next ZvT that goes to late game.
Edit: But I can't vouch for my opponent(s)
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On January 13 2013 00:43 Gendi2545 wrote:
Sounds more dangerous than snakes on planes.
how could anybody miss this? LOL
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Please supply a rep where this is done successfully at a decent level.
Hi please watch savior vs nada on arkanoid.
I am sure there are more examples.
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It isn't useful at all. The only reason you would get drop late game ZvT at a decent level (higher than B+ /A-) is to drop defiler ling into a terrans main or as a response to a terran going mech. Crack ling defiler drops are very strong if the zerg has 4 bases behind him if you can temporarily shut down Terrans production or kill a significant amount of SCV's. But if you have the spare resources to do that you are probably playing from an advantage anyway.
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Couldn't you just get burrow, which is 100/100 cheaper, takes less overlord guessing, and can all be unburrowed instantly with 1 click?
I mean granted you have less mobility and they can still be sniped, but you can put overlords over the burrowed hole lol
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On January 14 2013 12:20 AFKing wrote:
Couldn't you just get burrow, which is 100/100 cheaper, takes less overlord guessing, and can all be unburrowed instantly with 1 click?
I mean granted you have less mobility and they can still be sniped, but you can put overlords over the burrowed hole lol
But this is to prevent SV from irradiate your defilers. Burrow doesn't help, and how the hell can you charge the tank line when the defilers don't move lol.
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On January 14 2013 09:06 Piy wrote:
It isn't useful at all. The only reason you would get drop late game ZvT at a decent level (higher than B+ /A-) is to drop defiler ling into a terrans main or as a response to a terran going mech. Crack ling defiler drops are very strong if the zerg has 4 bases behind him if you can temporarily shut down Terrans production or kill a significant amount of SCV's. But if you have the spare resources to do that you are probably playing from an advantage anyway.
Once you get to late game ( which is about 50% of the time ) the zerg always want to get drop, because of the exact reasons that you stated above. Also it allows zergs to have a new attack path ( which sometimes is the only path. eg. T is taking his 4th on FS at the other main and has setup heavy artilery on high ground with wall-in ) and in late game 200/200 resource is not a whole lot. He did say that only use this trick at this stage of the game so saying "It's not useful at all" is pretty dumb.
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On January 14 2013 13:19 vndestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 12:20 AFKing wrote:
Couldn't you just get burrow, which is 100/100 cheaper, takes less overlord guessing, and can all be unburrowed instantly with 1 click?
I mean granted you have less mobility and they can still be sniped, but you can put overlords over the burrowed hole lol But this is to prevent SV from irradiate your defilers. Burrow doesn't help, and how the hell can you charge the tank line when the defilers don't move lol.
Burrowed defilers are harder to irradiate than unburrowed ones, since burrowed defilers look exactly like burrowed zerglings and are really hard to click >.<
Good point on tankline charging though
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i preffer burrowing them with some lings, the terran never clicks to check them
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4 defilers in overlord, first one jumps out, plagues, consumes overlord (after other 3 are out) and plagues again!!
Then the 2nd defiler plagues, and consumes the first defiler!!! Then the 3rd does the same
8 plagues from 4 defilers and an overlord!!!!
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I'd like to share a story of how a defiler in an overlord saved me from Terran death.
I was completely dominating the early/mid game, but right before my finishing move, Terran does the dreaded mech switch. (saving him from that moment and nearly winning him the game)
So I'm slowing his decent upon my main with whatever I have and I have 1 lone defiler left with just enough to swarm + run under it.
![[image loading]](http://entusgalleries.com/temp/plague1.jpg)
Suddenly I remember this thread and all the haters in here and I'm thinking, this is a chance to put a defiler in an overlord :D
Terran sees the defiler and places a mine, which nearly puts this whole effort in vain.
![[image loading]](http://entusgalleries.com/temp/plague2.jpg)
1 defiler dies as I unload 1 more!!!
![[image loading]](http://entusgalleries.com/temp/plague3.jpg)
And BOOM $$$ MONEY SHOT $$$
![[image loading]](http://entusgalleries.com/temp/plague4.jpg)
Defiler in overlord, saves lives.
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This is very useful if you have the APM to pull it off. I think this could also be useful in ZvP. Sometimes the Protoss will just move his entier army to snipe 1-2 overlords and that could be used to get of a money plague or two!
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To all the naysayers: Killer just did this on stream vs SK Terran
One single defiler got past a massive cloud of vessels, protected inside the overlord, and then threw down a plague and a swarm on top of a bunch of marines. It was glorious.
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vod? i would love to see that.
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The only problem I could see is this requires the Zerg to be hyper aggressive. It you get engaged with Defilers in OVs you die.
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how would you control this? would you put the overlord on separate command, like 0? or just have it with army? what about the defiler? does it need to be hotkeyed?
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On May 16 2013 06:49 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
how would you control this? would you put the overlord on separate command, like 0? or just have it with army? what about the defiler? does it need to be hotkeyed?
Two hotkeys wireframe drop. Since its a spellcast you'd have to control click it to setup. You dont have to hot key the ov, but if you bring 2-3 overlords with your army, you need to remeber which one has the defilers.
Tried it the other day, I found that hotkeying the ov and defilers was better because you could easily get the defiler back inside. It did require a lot of wireframe clicking tho. Overall, I felt its not too viable as a staple, more of a gimmick trick, it was really hard to control all the defilers with the slow OV speeds and figuring out which ones had energy.
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EPT
