EPT! [Q] Dark swarm question - Page 4
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On April 18 2006 08:58 lololol wrote: Sorry, to correct you, but firebats attack is actually 3 small splash attacks each dealing 8(up to 11) damage. In most cases units take damage from 2 of the attacks, so they receive 16(up to 22) damage minus 2 times their armor, but depending on angle and distance of attack they sometimes deal between 10 and 20 damage even on small units and 24 to larger sized ones, because of the nature of their attack. So against burrowed lukers it will be 7 or 10.5 damage when equally upgraded, it can't be 9. Other attacks, which are affected multiple times by armor are the zealot's attack and scout/goliath air attack, all three perform 2 hits on the target at half damage of the one shown in the info panel, but only the firebat has a very weard attack "pattern", it's 3 x 8 with each other's splashes overlapping. ah ok =] I know they deal like different damage (like when a ling is really close the bat will deal only half damage or something) but I didn't think it would matter vs a lurker cuz it's so big ;O | ||
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Hypnotize
United States183 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
On April 18 2006 14:29 Hypnotize wrote: its wierd because a tank will attack but the swarm will move its target and miss and deal splash. if its directly it does nothing to unburrowed OR burrowed. the strongest army under swarm is 1 ultra becuase it cant die no matter what. whover made the swarm calculations and put them in the game is a genious. or 5 that are spread apart ;D | ||
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Hypnotize
United States183 Posts
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QuietIdiot
7004 Posts
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flothefreak
Germany77 Posts
when focussing a unit under the DS with a tank, the tank shoots, BUT the impact point is moved away from the unit a bit. So this unit gets only a small damage from the radial splash of the tank. if you have many units under one DS (and close together), focussing one unit will result in the shooting impact (still splash only) hitting another unit fully. so the impact is moved, and if you have many units under the DS, it is very possible that it hits another unit almost directly. you can test this with 1 tank and 20 lings and a defiler  though, i can't remember in which direction the impact is moved away. only splash and meleedamage hits under DS. archon does only the splash, because it counts as ranged attack. same _should_ go for firebats, not totally sure about this. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On April 18 2006 14:29 Hypnotize wrote: its wierd because a tank will attack but the swarm will move its target and miss and deal splash. if its directly it does nothing to unburrowed OR burrowed. the strongest army under swarm is 1 ultra becuase it cant die no matter what. whover made the swarm calculations and put them in the game is a genious. If you target an Ultralisk with 12 tanks, while the Ultralisk is under swarm it will be killed in one volley, what are you talking about? Directly targeted unburrowed take damage, ONLY burrowed do not. To the others that are talking about the several ultras being immune to tanks(while under swarm): this is incorrect, it applies ONLY to BURROWED units. To flothefreak: I have already explained exactly how things work, 10x anyway  | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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Blind
United States2528 Posts
Siege tanks' splash damage can damage units under the swarm. The reason it doesn't damage lurks is because they're too big, so the tanks' shot hits above the lurker and the splash radius isn't in range. If you put 2 burrowed lurkers near each other under a swarm and let the tank attack, the targetted lurker won't be damaged, but the nearby lurker will. (Sorry if someone already posted this, didn't read the entire thread. Excalibur should fix this if I re-explained what he wrote wrong). | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On April 19 2006 10:45 Blind wrote: Excalibur came and answered this question a while ago. It was something like this: Siege tanks' splash damage can damage units under the swarm. The reason it doesn't damage lurks is because they're too big, so the tanks' shot hits above the lurker and the splash radius isn't in range. If you put 2 burrowed lurkers near each other under a swarm and let the tank attack, the targetted lurker won't be damaged, but the nearby lurker will. (Sorry if someone already posted this, didn't read the entire thread. Excalibur should fix this if I re-explained what he wrote wrong). Well not exactly. The tank shot (and any ranged shot, really) will always land a predetermined distance in front of the target - that distance is approximately 0.5 matrices. In that respect, it has nothing to do with the size of the target. The trick is placing all the targets in a straight line with regards to the position of your Tank or Archon. For example, if you have two Lurkers in a straight line, one at range 9.5 and another at range 10, and you target the one at range 10, the shot will land directly on the one at range 9.5 and damage it. The Lurker at range 10 will sustain no damage because, as has already been explained in this thread, burrowing negates splash damage. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On April 19 2006 09:01 Twisted wrote: Well ultra's would need like 14 tankshots but ok :p If the ultralisk has 4-5 armor ups and the tanks have no attack ups - yes, otherwise no I calculated it with no upgrades on both sides and then it's exactly 12 and I just used it as example. Depending on ups, the number of hits can range between 10 and 14. | ||
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Verdicts: 1. If you wanna kill lurkers hit something behind them (in a straight line from your attacker). It will take damage. 2. Burrowed units only take the 100% damage, but if you have, say.. 4-5 lings very close together they will ALL take the siege tank's damage even if they're burrowed. The ones around them however, will be intact (as opposed to having half of the hit points left when they're not burrowed). 3. Firebats do 8 damage to the target closest to them and 16 to the 2-3 area of fire. I've yet to see any unit taken 24 damage (or less according to size/armor) but I'm not denying that it could happen. 4. Archons suck under swarm. :D They will most likely not seriously damage anything, although they could. The problem is that if you have an archon firing at any given target there are very slim chances that there's a unit in between the archon and it's target to take the full blast. So they do minor damage. If you want to kill burrowed lurks fire behind them, works as well as tanks. 5. Reavers ftw. They're good vs swarmed stuff and they have a pretty large 100% area of damage (it seems larger than the tank's but i may be wrong). You definetly want some of that going on when fighting burrowed stuff, or swarm, or any kind of ground zerg units for that matter. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
Tanks splash radii is 10, Scarab is 20 and Scarabs explode in melee range, so swarm does not have effect on them. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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pooper-scooper
United States3108 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On April 20 2006 10:00 pooper-scooper wrote: Wow there are so many misconceptions in this thread it is sick Most people who play the game do so without regard to specifics. Not everyone is a statistician like lololol and myself =] A lot of others don't really care so they will invent their own theories as to why certain things happen, guess at unit stats like HP/damage/range, etc. They play with the mentality "I may not know how much damage unit X does or how long the build time is for unit Y, or how unit Z is affected by Dark Swarm, but I've played a lot of games so I can make educated estimations based on my in-game experiences." And that works fine for them on an individual basis. On topics like these requesting specific information, though, those estimations - and therefore the answers - will vary from person to person. That's the reason behind the misconceptions. It's not that it's a bad thing necessarily because typically threads like this one will come in handy every one in a thousand games, but it does promote productive discussion. | ||
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GeneralCash
Croatia346 Posts
archon does not have either melee or ranged attack: he deals only splash dmg (like reaver or spider mine). his dmg seems to be less if in swarm, it has happened many times to me that a 3/0/0 archon cant kill as many lings as he could normally. i can think of three reasons why that might be: 1. - the constant of dissipation (c from the fomula for splash dmg) becomes bigger in swarm effectively reducing the "size" of splash and total dmg it does if it affects more than one unit; or 2. - upgrades are reduced, or even ignored in swarm; and finally 3. - a combination of 1. and 2. testing would be a complete waste of time, but might cure some curiosity... *hint to anyone with a lot of free time* p.s. bats dont deal 3 splash attacks. they deal one melee attack (at range of 1) and 2 splash attacks. however, their splash is definitely affected by upgrades, just like archon's. like tanks, they can deal more dmg if the all attack the same target at the same time (3 of them will rape an archon). | ||
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