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! [Q] Dark swarm question - Page 5

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
April 20 2006 06:58 GMT
#81
This thread is full or arrogant players though... Aren't you tired of seeing NO IT DOES NOT WORK LIKE THIS blablabla ? :x

I'm agree that starcraft's players likes to be 100% right : get a break dudes it's not the end of the world... T_T
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-04-20 22:39:54
April 20 2006 19:12 GMT
#82
On April 20 2006 14:53 GeneralCash wrote:
tank and bat have a weird way of dealing dmg. tank for example deals 70(+5) explosive dmg to the target he is attacking (i.e. the one targeted by ai or right clicking). he also does 35 splash dmg to units around the target (but not to the target, it's simmilar to next delay in diablo 2), which roughly equals 35*exp(-r/c), where r is distance to original target, and c is a constant attainable from editor if you have more nerves and time than me. afaik, this splash is not affected by upgrades. this type of dmg is why you might have seen two tanks kill a goon right off: the poor bastard picked ranged dmg from one tank (75) and splash from the other (a little under 35), and vice versa. so the effective dmg of each tank was around 100... so the fact that burrowed lurx are immune to splash is a miscoception made by a weird way tanks shoot (if they were immune to splash, then it would be impossible to do everyone's favourite trick with zeal and archon killing a lurx w/o detection). also, a tank can kill all lurx in a swarm (if they are close enough to each other) except the last one. 2 or more tanks will most likely kill a lurx if they shoot all together.
archon does not have either melee or ranged attack: he deals only splash dmg (like reaver or spider mine). his dmg seems to be less if in swarm, it has happened many times to me that a 3/0/0 archon cant kill as many lings as he could normally. i can think of three reasons why that might be: 1. - the constant of dissipation (c from the fomula for splash dmg) becomes bigger in swarm effectively reducing the "size" of splash and total dmg it does if it affects more than one unit; or 2. - upgrades are reduced, or even ignored in swarm; and finally 3. - a combination of 1. and 2. testing would be a complete waste of time, but might cure some curiosity... *hint to anyone with a lot of free time*

p.s. bats dont deal 3 splash attacks. they deal one melee attack (at range of 1) and 2 splash attacks. however, their splash is definitely affected by upgrades, just like archon's. like tanks, they can deal more dmg if the all attack the same target at the same time (3 of them will rape an archon).


Tanks do their full damage in a 10 pixel radii, not only to their primary target. They deal 50% in 25 pixel radii and IT IS AFFECTED BY UPGRADES. It is 35/37.5/40/42.5 damage depending on your upgrade level, i.e. exactly half of the primary damage. They also have 25% splash damage in 40 pixel radii(ofc, also affected by upgrades).
Burrowed units ARE imunne to 25%/50% damage splash. The trick in question is possible because the zealot is on top of the lurk, so the 100% splash radii of the Archon's attack is hitting the lurker.
Even if you put 100 tanks around a single luker burrowed and under swarm, the lurker WILL live, tanks will do NO damage to the lurker.
You clearly do not have any understanding how things work, there are no constants of splash dissipation or anything like that. Every unit dealing splash has 3 splash ranges: 100%, 50% and 25%, that's it.
I have already explained exactly how things work, you should see that and not think up some weird things like splash ranges get reduced or upgrades not working units having several different types of attacks all working at once, e.t.c.

"2 or more tanks will most likely kill a lurx if they shoot all together."
I guess this lurker is godly or something and that's why it does not apply to him?
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


P.S.In the last screen the swarm dissapeared right after the tanks shot
I'll call Nada.
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
April 20 2006 21:23 GMT
#83
As I said. I've TESTED these things. So instead of repeating what everyone said before, just read the post.

And when you place your zealot OVER the lurker then it's not splash damage, it's the 100% zone, normal damage of the archon. It doesn't take less, splash damage, it takes normal damage, just like it would if you had observer. Try putting a zealot behind the lurker and shooting at it. You will see the lurk is intact (unless u use dark swarm so the damage is sent back 5-10 radii, thus killing the lurk).

Lolol if you were to place a zergling anywhere around the lurk it would have died.
And if bats do 1 melee and 2 splash why does the melee only deal 8 dmg?
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-04-20 22:43:16
April 20 2006 22:37 GMT
#84
On April 21 2006 06:23 CubEdIn[SoD] wrote:
Lolol if you were to place a zergling anywhere around the lurk it would have died.


I did this only to prove him wrong about several tanks shooting at the same time will kill the luker. And it looked cool )) The zergling has to be placed somewhat accurately, the "circle" of possible positions around the lurker is quite large, but it's only 10 pixels thin(it is pretty much the same as the exlosions look in the first screenshot).
I'll call Nada.
pooper-scooper
Profile Joined May 2003
United States3108 Posts
April 20 2006 23:05 GMT
#85
On April 20 2006 13:53 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2006 10:00 pooper-scooper wrote:
Wow there are so many misconceptions in this thread it is sick

mentality "I may not know how much damage unit X does or how long the build time is for unit Y,
Most people who play the game do so without regard to specifics. Not everyone is a statistician like lololol and myself =] A lot of others don't really care so they will invent their own theories as to why certain things happen, guess at unit stats like HP/damage/range, etc. They play with the or how unit Z is affected by Dark Swarm, but I've played a lot of games so I can make educated estimations based on my in-game experiences." And that works fine for them on an individual basis. On topics like these requesting specific information, though, those estimations - and therefore the answers - will vary from person to person. That's the reason behind the misconceptions. It's not that it's a bad thing necessarily because typically threads like this one will come in handy every one in a thousand games, but it does promote productive discussion.


I concede almost every point you make, with the exception of the fact that "it promotes productive discussion."

People are throwing mistaken ideas left and right, when what they should be doing is making a UMS and testing the issue without getting into arguments where both parties are wrong.

It is like arguing over something that you can easily google: foolish. All of these are easily tested, so why argue?
Good...Bad... Im the guy with the gun
beavis.smurf
Profile Joined December 2005
United States339 Posts
April 21 2006 02:30 GMT
#86
seige tank splash dammage works i think, for instance its splash or a reavers splash can kill a dt by targeting a nearby visible unit.
a korean just pulled off some sexy cheese and got cheesed back - tasteless
skyglow1
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
New Zealand3962 Posts
April 21 2006 18:25 GMT
#87
lololol that first pic is SOOOOOOOOOO cool I'm keeping it!
skyglow1
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
New Zealand3962 Posts
April 21 2006 18:28 GMT
#88
also, a tank can kill all lurx in a swarm (if they are close enough to each other) except the last one. 2 or more tanks will most likely kill a lurx if they shoot all together.


I'm pretty sure he means unburrowed lurk here rather than burrowed as in the pics.
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
April 21 2006 18:48 GMT
#89
No, I think he meant burrowed lurks, and u keep firing at the one furthest from you, that way the shots land on the ones in front of it. But they'd have to be pretty well arranged to pull that one off.
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-04-22 15:40:23
April 22 2006 15:36 GMT
#90
On April 22 2006 03:28 skyglow1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
also, a tank can kill all lurx in a swarm (if they are close enough to each other) except the last one. 2 or more tanks will most likely kill a lurx if they shoot all together.


I'm pretty sure he means unburrowed lurk here rather than burrowed as in the pics.


He first reffered to a singe tank shooting under swarm, then about 2 tanks, so the conditions must be the same, CubEdIn also thinks so

About the screens, they all look cool, but I like the second and last the most )
I'll call Nada.
KoKo_PiDeRaS
Profile Joined May 2014
Bulgaria16 Posts
June 21 2014 21:54 GMT
#91
http://classic.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/defiler.shtml

User was warned for this post
youtube.com/kuchesezik <-- my music
Forcewater
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom206 Posts
June 21 2014 22:21 GMT
#92
http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/classes/necromancer.shtml
"Reddit on the other hand has always just been a box full of retarded blind puppies licking and sniffing everything they come in contact with and leaving it moist and oily" - Gamegene
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 21 2014 23:17 GMT
#93
On June 22 2014 06:54 KoKo_PiDeRaS wrote:
http://classic.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/defiler.shtml


Glad this question finally got cleared up, now the OP can have the closure he deserves.

I hope this thread also gets the closure it deserves.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
art_of_turtle
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
United States1210 Posts
June 22 2014 05:04 GMT
#94
But can a yamato Cannon hit a lurker under swarm?
Flash should fear Sacsri
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 22 2014 05:19 GMT
#95
On June 22 2014 14:04 art_of_turtle wrote:
But can a yamato Cannon hit a lurker under swarm?


Yes, all special attacks can hit lurkers under swarm, even if the lurker is burrowed.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States788 Posts
June 22 2014 09:38 GMT
#96
Most players don't know that if you stack 2 dark swarms on top of each other even spells/special attacks won't affect lurkers. This is why consume is so imbalanced.
NAKR`flying
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