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Malmis
Sweden1569 Posts
The only thing a swarm does is making the projectile hit the ground 1 matrix(or something) infront of the unit, instead of hitting the unit. So basically if you're trying to hit a lurker under a swarm with a tank, it will hit the ground 1 matrix infront of the lurker. Now if there had been another unit 1 matrix infront of the lurker, the other unit would have tanken full damge. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12238 Posts
Archons and Siege Tanks ordinarily deal only their splash damage, like people have said. However, the thing to remember is that every shot that Dark Swarm deflects will land in the exact same location every time depending on the location of the attacking unit. So, it's predictable where the shots will land, and that means with proper targeting you can force shots to land in certain places. For example, Dark Swarm will always cause shots to fall short by about 0.5 matrices. This is the same radius as the Archon's 1/4 splash ring and the Siege Tank's 1/2 splash ring. That means that any unit attacked by a Siege Tank or Archon will suffer this amount of damage, yet the shots will always land in the same place. To extrapolate, let's say that there is a unit who is standing 0.5 matrices behind the intended target relevant to the direction of the attacking unit. This second unit will receive only splash damage because Dark Swarm causes the shot to fall short, but the intended target will receive full damage because Dark Swarm is causing the fire to land directly on it. We have already stipulated that burrowed units do not take damage from splash, which is why Lurkers are especially effective. However, given that the shot trajectory in terms of Dark Swarm is predictable, even a Lurker would receive full direct damage based on this fact. Also, the SCC is wrong. Worker units deal zero damage under Swarm. Firebats will deal their full damage because their attack is line splash damage, the same principle as Lurkers. That means that as long as the unit is stationary, the shot can never miss. Even though they're a terrible, awful attempted counter to Lurkers, if you've got enough of something... =] | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12238 Posts
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ShabZzoY!
Great Britain760 Posts
On April 17 2006 07:04 Overlord wrote: Thanks for your answers, everything is clear now  This is not true, only if some of them are unborrowed. Actually it is true, so dont be so sure of yourself | ||
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Overlord
Romania651 Posts
On April 17 2006 09:28 ShabZzoY! wrote: Actually it is true, so dont be so sure of yourself You're right, when I first tested it, I always targeted the closest lurker to the tanks. | ||
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
On April 17 2006 04:46 ther wrote: maybe, if the tank and its enemy are under the same swarm, the tank do a normal damage (which, as you know, is not always certainly 70dmg) What? Tanks hardly do anywhere near their full damage under swarm, thats why you don't pwn everything under swarm that quickly. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3984 Posts
On April 17 2006 08:04 Cascade wrote: This seams logic to me, but I'm not sure that is how it works... will a single zergling be invulnerable from 2385 tanks and 657 archons if it's alone? Yes, this is correct to my knowledge. | ||
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inkblot
United States1250 Posts
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
Not if you unsiege a tank and put it beside the zergling and focus fire on the tank lol. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12238 Posts
No, the Zergling would take splash damage from either unit, and die under normal circumstances from 5 Archon shots or 3 Tank shots, factoring in regeneration. However, if it was burrowed, it would take no damage. | ||
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Camila_br
Brazil529 Posts
lurkers are big units concussive damage deals 25% of the damage in big units, 50% in medium and 100% in small that's why lurkers take so little damage from firebats. this have nothing to do with dark swarm | ||
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ubergamer15
United States645 Posts
On April 17 2006 17:53 skyglow1 wrote: Not if you unsiege a tank and put it beside the zergling and focus fire on the tank lol. Yay for splash damage! | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Tanks: Do radial explosive splash damage. Splash damage IS effective under swarm but NOT effective vs burrowed units. Explosive attacks deal 50% to small units, 75% to medium-sized units and 100% to large units. Ergo, lurkers won't take direct damage because of swarm nor will they take splash damage because of burrow-ness  However shooting at other units above lurkers works, provided u have good placement. Did you notice lukers are VERY hard to kill with siege tanks on cliffs? it's because when you're below the cliff u have 30% (or was it 33%?) chance of a successfull hit, which means that if you don't DIRECTLY hit a lurker it will only be succeptible to splash damage. If it's burrowed it got away from that as well. However I never seen what happens when lurkers are bunched together. Perhaps some will take direct hit and die. I think that's true because i have seen lurkers die under DS without any units on top of them. For unit statistics check http://www.battle.net/scc/terran/ustats.shtml (links to protoss and zerg from that page too). Bottom line: if you're terran and u see dark swarm keep away. If you HAVE to kill it use scv/medic on top of them and aim tanks at your units. If there are too many lurkers and you're losing the game if you don't kill them press enter type in g then g then press enter agian and the keys ALT q and q in quick succession. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
So burrowed units do not take splash damage under swarm, is that correct? But then a lurker would be immune to enemy lurkers under swarm, as they both are burrowed and deal only splash damage? But without swarm it does take damage, otherwise the shoot-your-own-zealot-with-an-archon wouldn't work? And the same trick does not work under swarm then I guess.... So then what about the uphill lurker example: Do they take splash damage? If no: why not?  | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
Burrowed units take only 100% damage splash. If they are in the 25% or 50% zone they will take no damage at all. You can test it even with a nuke - burrowed units near the end of the damage zone will take no damage at all, while unburrowed will. Dark Swarm makes range units attack infront of the target, so units with no splash attack don't hit their target at all. Reaver's scarab is a melee unit, so it doesn't effect it(Something interesting - if you press stop on a reaver, which has a scarab on the field, the scarab will explode dealing no damage). Firebats deal most of their damage with their 100% splash, so they deal damage to burrowed units under swarm, they also deal line splash and fire exactly at the target, not infront of it. Lurkers also can't really fire infront of their target, so they always hit and they deal all of their damage in 100% splash. Tanks won't hit a burrowed lurker thay are aiming at, because the 100% damage zone does not reach the target(the radii on their 100% splash is 10, they normally hit a bit infront of their target and Dark Swarm makes them hit even more off) High Archons as Siege Tanks can't hit the burrowed unit they are aiming at(under swarm), their 100% damage splash zone has a radii of 3 and they attack infront of their target, if they are too close to it, the actuall attack sprite will appear behind the archon or on top of it. I have tested this multiple times and it is absolutely correct. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On April 17 2006 19:22 Camila_br wrote: firebats are melee with concussive/splash damage lurkers are big units concussive damage deals 25% of the damage in big units, 50% in medium and 100% in small that's why lurkers take so little damage from firebats. this have nothing to do with dark swarm Lurker size IS medium, not large, but you are right about swarm not having effect on a firebat attacking a burrowed lurker. Lurkers also due to their collsion size, not armor type size, often take damage from the three damage points of the firebat attack(the firebat's attack is actually three little splash attacks in a line infront of him, each dealing 8 damage in it's 100% damage zone), so they take: 3 hits by 8 damage, which is reduced to 7 by the 1 point of armor and divided by 2 due to medium armor size of the lurkers = 10.5 damage taken(when there are no upgrades or equal upgrades for firebat attack/lurker armor). It depends on the angle of attack, so sometimes the lurker will take damage only from 2 of the damage points in the firebats attack and it will be just 7 damage. | ||
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Camila_br
Brazil529 Posts
On April 18 2006 02:37 lololol wrote: Lurker size IS medium, not large, but you are right about swarm not having effect on a firebat attacking a burrowed lurker. Lurkers also due to their collsion size, not armor type size, often take damage from the three damage points of the firebat attack(the firebat's attack is actually three little splash attacks in a line infront of him, each dealing 8 damage in it's 100% damage zone), so they take: 3 hits by 8 damage, which is reduced to 7 by the 1 point of armor and divided by 2 due to medium armor size of the lurkers = 10.5 damage taken(when there are no upgrades or equal upgrades for firebat attack/lurker armor). It depends on the angle of attack, so sometimes the lurker will take damage only from 2 of the damage points in the firebats attack and it will be just 7 damage. http://www.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/lurker.shtml they are large, not medium | ||
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ShabZzoY!
Great Britain760 Posts
Tell me, do lurkers die to 2 tank hits in your games? Oh wait, they dont. Oh wait, you are talking shit. | ||
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Camila_br
Brazil529 Posts
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