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TvP bioterran

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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pat777
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States356 Posts
April 03 2005 17:59 GMT
#1
Is it possible to beat a decent protoss by relying heavily on infantry? I know heavy metal is usually used vs protoss. Do you need a lot of micro to use bioterran vs. protoss?
WickeD
Profile Joined April 2003
Slovakia789 Posts
April 03 2005 18:09 GMT
#2
No u just need ur opponet to be either stupid or unable to use psionic storm. It is useable only on maps poor on gas as a suprise strategy. Another option is a bio-tank rush.
Broodwar: Few days to learn, lifetime to Master
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51522 Posts
April 03 2005 18:42 GMT
#3
its called Bio Mechanics

you just go tanks + mnm vs some dumbass player
Commentator
mattmercury
Profile Joined April 2005
United Kingdom109 Posts
April 03 2005 19:03 GMT
#4
ive seen people win games with it, albeit perhaps because they werent playing pro, but it did work
turn it up honey, these songs sound better loud.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51522 Posts
April 03 2005 19:09 GMT
#5
the only best use to go fully bio is if they 2gate zeal rush you and its 12v3/6v9
Commentator
ChApFoU
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
France2983 Posts
April 03 2005 19:10 GMT
#6
pros do use this strat : i remind of Control vs Reach and Midas vs Reach where both of them beated Reach with a biomechanic build ( for midas it was rather a surprise rush into contain whereas fo control it was fast multi into 8 rax 2 facts )
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper in a genius" Kang Min
x2fst
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
1272 Posts
April 03 2005 20:03 GMT
#7
early game rush (when you have 3 tank with seige plus about 20 m&m) can be ok but if they went reaver you're fucked and if they went 2 gate you would probably lose if they put their goon or probe in front of your base so they know its coming, some tosses when they see m&m build support bay instantly so you need to attack fast and kill probes (or stop expansion if they started an early one) or something, its been said many a time but you really need to do some significant damage to have a chance later on. Once toss have reaver or storm your mm are next to useless and they will have more than ewnough goons to kill the reduced amount of tanks youll have
muda, is a crime for me to wear a shirt, cos I is so good lookin
Pafnucy
Profile Joined October 2002
Poland1124 Posts
April 03 2005 20:36 GMT
#8
Few rack fast rush, biomech rush, fast exp => earlier push. It should work best vs early robo/expand, anything w/o large number of goons or fast dt. Fast exp into biomech rush I can imagine working only vs "make some goon, obs, be safe, see t exp, exp twice and add mass gate" type of thing. All bio builds suck vs dts, temps, masses with speedlots unless they are dumb. Transition to mech is often necessary, if game won't end earlier.
Member of the "Fuck Yeah, Canata !" committee :-) to join copy/paste this
rT)Arch
Profile Joined March 2005
Uruguay22 Posts
April 03 2005 21:12 GMT
#9
Hmmm, it really depends on how you play it. About the early on damage, if you can go up his ramp its fine but dont try forcing it too much ( dont lose your medrine force by trying so ), but stopping him from expoing is already fine, if he should go reaver camp in your base until tank, vs templar get vessels with emp, also never forget upgrades if you pretend to go all game with this strategy. Dont get me wrong, I dont think its a good strat, but sometimes when your gas was stolen it can work well.
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9949 Posts
April 03 2005 21:25 GMT
#10
On April 04 2005 04:10 ChApFoU wrote:
pros do use this strat : i remind of Control vs Reach and Midas vs Reach where both of them beated Reach with a biomechanic build ( for midas it was rather a surprise rush into contain whereas fo control it was fast multi into 8 rax 2 facts )


and DoGGi vs Reach

Reach seems to have a problem with biomech haha
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
EAGER-beaver
Profile Joined March 2004
Canada2799 Posts
April 03 2005 21:45 GMT
#11
All strategies are valid, depending on the situation, lots of people tend to forget that.
Simon and Garfunkel rock my face off
Pent
Profile Joined September 2004
Russian Federation270 Posts
April 03 2005 22:19 GMT
#12
I remember that game Boxer vs Foru on Gulliotine, when Boxer walled in and built ~12 m&m force + ~4 tanks in secret.. The VOD was superb, especially when commentor began shouting madly when one tank shot killed ~8 probes! That GEE-GEEEEE scream is still in my ears
#1,000,067 Boxer fan.
exalted
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States3612 Posts
April 03 2005 23:55 GMT
#13
It's not bad on rampless maps as Guillotine, but if there's a ramp, he can just stall with mass goon on ramp and get DT or Reaver, both killer vs MM.
too easy
DuSkie
Profile Joined November 2004
Czech Republic451 Posts
April 04 2005 00:20 GMT
#14
dumb players? I saw Reach lose to this strat
iNsaNe-
Profile Joined January 2005
Finland5201 Posts
April 04 2005 00:36 GMT
#15
DuSkie, read the thread, it has been said that Reach has lost to couple players with this.

Eri used this on Luna vs Clawson, and got beaten pretty bad. Though he didn't use it whole game.
It takes a fool to remain sane.
stimpack[pG]
Profile Joined November 2004
Philippines88 Posts
April 04 2005 00:40 GMT
#16
vults are faster/more mobile, no gas envolved to make medics, no extra minerals to build rax, plus 3 free mines, and can easily dodge storm, thats it..
so why go bio when you can have vults? only adv i can think of is they are a little effective against goons or when P canon zealots you early or maybe builds an asimilator in your base.. thats it!!!
if not fuck bio...
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7313 Posts
April 04 2005 01:31 GMT
#17
On April 04 2005 06:25 RaGe-xG- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2005 04:10 ChApFoU wrote:
pros do use this strat : i remind of Control vs Reach and Midas vs Reach where both of them beated Reach with a biomechanic build ( for midas it was rather a surprise rush into contain whereas fo control it was fast multi into 8 rax 2 facts )


and DoGGi vs Reach

Reach seems to have a problem with biomech haha



except when boxer tried it in the ogn finals, it was complete rape :D

How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9949 Posts
April 04 2005 01:40 GMT
#18
On April 04 2005 10:31 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2005 06:25 RaGe-xG- wrote:
On April 04 2005 04:10 ChApFoU wrote:
pros do use this strat : i remind of Control vs Reach and Midas vs Reach where both of them beated Reach with a biomechanic build ( for midas it was rather a surprise rush into contain whereas fo control it was fast multi into 8 rax 2 facts )


and DoGGi vs Reach

Reach seems to have a problem with biomech haha



except when boxer tried it in the ogn finals, it was complete rape :D



hey you cant be a permanent pimp huh
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
maleorderbride
Profile Joined November 2002
United States2916 Posts
April 04 2005 01:55 GMT
#19
so is stimpack[pg] a fake? why is he allowed to be a poser?

I asking this because I have read 3 strategy posts by him and was dismayed that someone with [pg] by their name would think that way. I really hope its the language barrier not a skill barrier...
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-04 02:43:17
April 04 2005 02:41 GMT
#20
On April 04 2005 09:40 stimpack[pG] wrote:
vults are faster/more mobile, no gas envolved to make medics, no extra minerals to build rax, plus 3 free mines, and can easily dodge storm, thats it..
so why go bio when you can have vults? only adv i can think of is they are a little effective against goons or when P canon zealots you early or maybe builds an asimilator in your base.. thats it!!!
if not fuck bio...

On the other hand, players that think "out of the box" and try different strats does often end up winning.

And I dont think m&m+Tank is as bad as you say in tvp; They can be pretty good vs a zealot/goon. problem is when it comes to protoss tech. Early game it can be useful. If its done by an experienced player that is.
Enter a Uh
Venlow
Profile Joined September 2004
United States110 Posts
April 04 2005 03:59 GMT
#21
nobody here has the hands to pull off bio mech vs a decent stormer
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
April 04 2005 05:53 GMT
#22
On April 04 2005 12:59 Venlow wrote:
nobody here has the hands to pull off bio mech vs a decent stormer

Well this attack is supposed to be fast to work, just as many posters said before. So the point is to do enough damage before toss gets enough templars, I guess
Enter a Uh
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
April 04 2005 06:09 GMT
#23
On April 04 2005 12:59 Venlow wrote:
nobody here has the hands to pull off bio mech vs a decent stormer


Gillettesemis last year, live comments posted on TL:

On July 09 2004 03:19 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
Holy.... Control goes mass marines and stomps all over Reach. What the hell?


On July 09 2004 03:20 4.Aiur wrote:
Arbiter...plz tell me ur joking. More details plz...we're dying here.


On July 09 2004 03:22 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
Control went early expo, then suddenly out of nowhere he was building four barracks! Reach saw them with his obs and started teching to templar but Control always seemed to be one step ahead. By the time he had storm Control was at his natural. Marine power. Holy....


Yes its possible~~ and cool when someone succeeds
Enter a Uh
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
April 04 2005 08:36 GMT
#24
Dropships seem to work very nicely with infantry because you can put in so many of them.

You can dedicate one dropship to stopping expos in progress, or just simply destroying them. Marines destroy buildings at such amazing speed.

Another to harass base, another to be gay on cliffs.

What I do on cliffs is unload 7 rines 1 medic, don't let toss know they are there. And drop 2 tanks there later and take his expo without him being able to do much.

The idea is to separate his army and gain an economical advantage.

There's no way a 2 base terran who is not being harassed as much can be beaten by a toss that is having trouble exanding.

Then again, I'm only a D noob in PGT :-/

The highest I've beaten is a C- with this strat.
('''(G_G/'''')
EchoOfRain
Profile Joined November 2004
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-04 09:15:28
April 04 2005 09:14 GMT
#25
another good build is rax make 4 marine fact --- tank -- seige--- cc ---then add 2 more rax + another fact and hit him while he takes his 2nd nat. Of coure you make an acad in there for fast double scan to protect from dt, its kinda risky but with proper scouting is pretty damn solid.
quote
MPXMX
Profile Joined December 2002
Canada4309 Posts
April 04 2005 09:15 GMT
#26
Ala hellghost vs nazgul
inkblot
Profile Joined December 2004
United States1250 Posts
April 04 2005 09:31 GMT
#27
Its a bit of a one-shot thing. You would generally stop doing it after toss gets storm going and switch to mech. Ideally you would win the game before he gets a counter or set him back enough to win anyway.

TreK vs Testie F2F on Nostalgia is a good game showing how infantry can be effective and how it can also be owned. Testie starts mech then drops ~10 barracks though, instead of the other way around. TreK mass expansions and storm won in the end.
TM_Machine
Profile Joined September 2004
United States130 Posts
April 04 2005 09:53 GMT
#28
ive done a 1 rax 2 fact tvp where i just had teh 1 rax pumping reins while i fast vult with mines.... was quite good.
Zerg Zerg Zerg
EchoOfRain
Profile Joined November 2004
United States516 Posts
April 04 2005 12:51 GMT
#29
On April 04 2005 18:15 MPXMX wrote:
Ala hellghost vs nazgul

hellghost did that? Pretty cool for a build that i found on my own to be used by him (not saying i used it first just never saw it used in a rep before because i dont watch all that many reps).
quote
phexac
Profile Joined March 2004
United States186 Posts
April 04 2005 13:50 GMT
#30
Infantry can be very strong vs toss if used right.
EchoOfRain
Profile Joined November 2004
United States516 Posts
April 04 2005 16:40 GMT
#31
basically bio is strong until protoss charges enough storm to cast multiple storms on your mandm. So the key obviously is to mass just enough very quickly to quickly push out and win. Vs most strong protoss you wont be able to do this. From here you need to get a group of vultures to vaid vs temps and to keep him from going pure mass speed zeal templar which is unstopabble mid game by a biomech army. You can keep making marines but vultures become more cost efective. Your bio at this point should be completely behind your thanks and should up to target zeals and then quickly move back until you can target and kill his temps.
quote
Resonate
Profile Joined October 2002
United Kingdom8402 Posts
April 04 2005 16:58 GMT
#32
loads of progamers have won with bacanic terran vs other progamers in pro matches. It's not reliable, but it's viable. thus it gets used occasionally.

It's like going reaver PvT, it's not reliable so it doesn't get used a lot.
Memory lane in nice
GroT
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Belgium3003 Posts
April 04 2005 20:09 GMT
#33
IMO it's a viable cheese opening against a range goon build if you can come out after he expanded with some timing and luck


might wonna do it if you're not feeling confident in a real game
DANCE ALL DAY
stimpack[pG]
Profile Joined November 2004
Philippines88 Posts
April 05 2005 02:04 GMT
#34
On April 04 2005 10:55 maleorderbride wrote:
so is stimpack[pg] a fake? why is he allowed to be a poser?

I asking this because I have read 3 strategy posts by him and was dismayed that someone with [pg] by their name would think that way. I really hope its the language barrier not a skill barrier...

y the hell do you care so much about the name that i used? [pg] doesnt mean "pro-gamer" for your information you asshole, it stands for "phil-gamers"... and what if i say i just like using it because i just like it and i find it cool... is there any rule that you cant do that? and y the hell do you keep on flaming people, you think you're so good a lot more people are much better than you and their just humble about it! if i can just change my nick i would coz i think it affects you too much!
so just stfu and mind your own busnes!
iNsaNe-
Profile Joined January 2005
Finland5201 Posts
April 05 2005 03:59 GMT
#35
stimpack, haven't seen stupidier post for ages anywhere. Thanks for that.
It takes a fool to remain sane.
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
April 05 2005 04:09 GMT
#36
Bio is usually something ppl do after getting gas rushed in my experience, still it's very good against 1gate if you have the element of surprise.
EchoOfRain
Profile Joined November 2004
United States516 Posts
April 05 2005 08:06 GMT
#37
On April 05 2005 11:04 stimpack[pG] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2005 10:55 maleorderbride wrote:
so is stimpack[pg] a fake? why is he allowed to be a poser?

I asking this because I have read 3 strategy posts by him and was dismayed that someone with [pg] by their name would think that way. I really hope its the language barrier not a skill barrier...

y the hell do you care so much about the name that i used? [pg] doesnt mean "pro-gamer" for your information you asshole, it stands for "phil-gamers"... and what if i say i just like using it because i just like it and i find it cool... is there any rule that you cant do that? and y the hell do you keep on flaming people, you think you're so good a lot more people are much better than you and their just humble about it! if i can just change my nick i would coz i think it affects you too much!
so just stfu and mind your own busnes!

how about you think of a new clan that isnt already taken you dip shit.
quote
Gryffindor_us
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States5606 Posts
April 05 2005 11:35 GMT
#38
Bacanic / Bechanic is sexy.

NaDa vs Reach KT-KTF Season 2.

Requiem

NaDa crushes Reach with mass mm and two tanks.
Remember 11-12-04. 이윤열 ~. |||| ZerO, IriS, JangBi, Stork, BackHo! Mah Jae Yoon is no longer a feared entity.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
April 05 2005 21:31 GMT
#39
Timing.
All in the timing.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
MPXMX
Profile Joined December 2002
Canada4309 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-05 21:33:22
April 05 2005 21:33 GMT
#40
EchoOfRain

http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=154

Comments here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=782

Nazgul vs Hellghost, where hellghost does exactly what you described And the game has an awesome ending... It may be broken though.

Anyway, it's not so much that you discovered something that works, it's that hellghost was able to make it work. Some other players would too, some wouldn't. So many things aren't used though they work; just that metal is easiest to execute
EchoOfRain
Profile Joined November 2004
United States516 Posts
April 06 2005 04:36 GMT
#41
Well it works well for me, so I guess I did.
quote
MPXMX
Profile Joined December 2002
Canada4309 Posts
April 06 2005 05:17 GMT
#42
It depends on vs whom and how many times
RedMeat
Profile Joined September 2002
United Kingdom490 Posts
April 06 2005 06:00 GMT
#43
Ha ha, stimpack you're really funny.
I am the mirror, I am the destiny, I am the herald that points the way...
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9949 Posts
April 07 2005 22:50 GMT
#44
On April 04 2005 21:51 EchoOfRain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2005 18:15 MPXMX wrote:
Ala hellghost vs nazgul

hellghost did that? Pretty cool for a build that i found on my own to be used by him (not saying i used it first just never saw it used in a rep before because i dont watch all that many reps).


hellghost does that kind of often, there was a replay pack of him posted about a year ago.

it had some nice games in it with biomech
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
StimD
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Norway738 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-07 23:13:57
April 07 2005 23:13 GMT
#45
hellghost goes m&m vs p in almost every game in tlt these days, so you might want to check out some of his reps.
Eti307
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
Canada3442 Posts
April 08 2005 00:05 GMT
#46
On April 05 2005 11:04 stimpack[pG] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2005 10:55 maleorderbride wrote:
so is stimpack[pg] a fake? why is he allowed to be a poser?

I asking this because I have read 3 strategy posts by him and was dismayed that someone with [pg] by their name would think that way. I really hope its the language barrier not a skill barrier...

y the hell do you care so much about the name that i used? [pg] doesnt mean "pro-gamer" for your information you asshole, it stands for "phil-gamers"... and what if i say i just like using it because i just like it and i find it cool... is there any rule that you cant do that? and y the hell do you keep on flaming people, you think you're so good a lot more people are much better than you and their just humble about it! if i can just change my nick i would coz i think it affects you too much!
so just stfu and mind your own busnes!


hahahaha wow
stimpack, either you are the dumbest guy on earth or you really don't know shit about the sc communauty
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