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Protoss vs Random on ForbiddenZone

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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ronhaak
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada98 Posts
March 30 2005 07:33 GMT
#1
Lately I have been playing quite a bit of forbidden zone on pgtour, and seem to be doing alright. However, I cant seem to get a grasp of a good opening build vs random (me P). I usually tech to quick robo and place a pylon on the edge of my base so i can lower probes and make 2 gates while expanding. My only fear is if my opponent is zerg, and I have to contend with either muta harassment or hydra drop. Is there any advice I can get as to a good opening vs random, so that I dont risk all and end up finding a zerg opponent. Thanks!
wasted
Profile Joined October 2002
Germany1789 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-03-30 07:57:48
March 30 2005 07:49 GMT
#2
from newbie to newbie i'd suggest:

1 corsair

vs Z +: usefull for scouting or killing lords, might be used vs mutas, - might be wasted time and money if enemy goes hydra
vs TP + :good scouting for enemys gameplan, might be usefull in harrassing dropships, - : will probably be a tech-deadend for a while

I think getting 1 corsair is a good package of safety and usefullness.

ok, now let's get the pros do the talking:
---gone---
Dealer
Profile Joined January 2003
Sweden1368 Posts
March 30 2005 07:55 GMT
#3
doing 1 cors against a random protoss will cost you the game, and most likely the same against a terran
h e l l o e
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17017 Posts
March 30 2005 08:01 GMT
#4
Yeah, I agree that unless it's chosen PvZ, a stargate opening will be considerably weaker than one with robo tech.

Of course FZ was made specifically so you'd have a balanced semi-island PvZ game. You can check out some replays though, but I don't know if you can search for "random" as a race

Sorry I couldn't help more.
Moderator
wasted
Profile Joined October 2002
Germany1789 Posts
March 30 2005 08:09 GMT
#5
well, the alternative would be scouting with a shuttle or an observer. i'd still prefer to have the corsair. gives you something to do doring the boring build up
---gone---
FalliNinLove
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Slovakia865 Posts
March 30 2005 08:22 GMT
#6
go two zeal+goon opening and gogo then start making stargate+research goon range and go +1goon when u scaut hes not z cancel stargate in production and continue-> however u want u should be good enough vs all rushes as long as you find him fast if u find him on 3rd poz.. it really sux if he is zerg cos you canceled stargate so go double SG if he mutas and if he hydras u are safe for while + u can gen another exp cos u got drop ship and he is prob.bad at scouting(fz-so many places to expand)
ronhaak
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada98 Posts
March 30 2005 08:29 GMT
#7
I just finished losing another PvR where he turned out to be zerg. This time however I was able to see his OL luckily, and went corsair. He went 2 evo bay hydra drop, so that he could expand. I simply couldnt keep up with his hydra as they continued to steamroll towards my expansion. Any ideas of what to do vs a zerg who decides to drop hydra and take the map?. I am finding pvz pretty hard on this map, due to the 2 different tech options they may persue.
pheered.user
Profile Joined March 2003
United States2603 Posts
March 30 2005 08:37 GMT
#8
If you know they are z, sair wont let overlords get anywhere on the map reavers clean up whatever they can drop. If they muta, you are in very good shape get +1 asap.
Looking for Skilled players to join an Active, Involved clan. PM Me for Details.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
March 30 2005 08:54 GMT
#9
I usually secure my exp with cannons and reavers, then go Reaver + Sair vs. Zerg.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
ronhaak
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada98 Posts
March 30 2005 08:55 GMT
#10
I dont really have a problem hunting down overlords , but early on I find most Z players will put their hydra force against the edge of the cliff, and slow drop a few down to contend with my sairs. I think PvRz is probably the hardest match-up on that map, considering pvRt or Rp is pretty much the same sort of build order. Any good 1.12 replays showcasing this matchup? I would really appreciate it
Knickknack
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1187 Posts
March 30 2005 09:28 GMT
#11
I'ld go sair opening. I dont know much about this, but I doubt it will cost you the game...

8pylon
10assim
11gate
15core
15p
18stargate
goon
22p
goon
sair
goon
31p
by now you should adapt based on what you see if you have not yet.
| www.ArtofProtoss.vze.com |
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17017 Posts
March 30 2005 09:58 GMT
#12
I think if he's not Z, a fast drop will beat your build. I'd still stick with a robo before stargate opening with low ground gates, but I'm just a newbie so don't listen ;(
Moderator
Famouzze
Profile Joined June 2004
971 Posts
March 30 2005 10:00 GMT
#13
i just don't play vs random on nfz =P (or at all ^^)

if i had to i'd probably go robo, no stargate.
ronhaak
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada98 Posts
March 30 2005 12:30 GMT
#14
The robo opening to reaver with ground gates seems to be what is working for me, 3 gate goon early on, with 2-3 cannons on the ledge to cover ground gates seems to slow down the early muta harass, with enough time to get goons out of 3 gates. The problem is scouting right, and keeping at least your shuttle alive to ferry units, otherwise I think a hydra drop would win. If you can get lucky with scouting, and hit a decent amount of drones, you are ok to start goon production until you can get citidel and cannon your expand. I dont have alot of experience with muta, but so far this has been my best opening. The one setback is scouting wrong. If you are late finding the zerg, you may not be able to do anything with your reaver, and fall behind in a sense. All of this has of course only been based on playing unknown pgtour players, and might all be completely wrong.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28709 Posts
March 30 2005 15:08 GMT
#15
don't go stargate. it's a certain loss pvp and puts you behind a lot pvt, and 1 stargate sair isn't even that good vs zerg on nfz.. (there are various muta builds that will kill a 1 stargate sair opening if the p does not make early cannons, and someone who goes hydra can easily expand. it's often good vs muta too though but imo, not if he really knows what he's doing. ) 4zealot drop can be a good opening although you depend on finding them on the first spot, and finding them on the last spot seriously fucks you over. but it _works_ both pvp pvt and pvz.

however what I personally like the most is doing a fast templar build with a semifast robotics. it's very very solid pvz (better than sair imo). expand with 1 templar with storm 1 archon 2 probes then just win the ground battle. in pvp you will have the opportunity to storm drop fast (which is better for killing probes than reaver drop) and pvt you are fine against anything but a fast expander. it requires you to play a lot with it before your timing becomes good, but it is very solid once you do.

any suggestion such as "dont play vs random" is gay as hell and people who dodge any matchups at all shouldn't play ladders.
Moderator
iNsaNe-
Profile Joined January 2005
Finland5201 Posts
March 30 2005 19:17 GMT
#16
I usually vs random go gate core robo, and make shuttle after robo comes out, vs z I usually go corsair with +1 upgrade and some cannons. Then continue with some reavertech.

But that's just me, and I ain't a good player.
It takes a fool to remain sane.
theburningred
Profile Joined October 2004
France92 Posts
March 30 2005 21:49 GMT
#17
On March 30 2005 19:00 Famouzze wrote:
i just don't play vs random on nfz =P (or at all ^^)

thats so gay... i hate "hi race? race? pick" people
Louder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States2276 Posts
March 30 2005 23:14 GMT
#18
On March 31 2005 00:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
don't go stargate. it's a certain loss pvp and puts you behind a lot pvt, and 1 stargate sair isn't even that good vs zerg on nfz.. (there are various muta builds that will kill a 1 stargate sair opening if the p does not make early cannons, and someone who goes hydra can easily expand. it's often good vs muta too though but imo, not if he really knows what he's doing. ) 4zealot drop can be a good opening although you depend on finding them on the first spot, and finding them on the last spot seriously fucks you over. but it _works_ both pvp pvt and pvz.

however what I personally like the most is doing a fast templar build with a semifast robotics. it's very very solid pvz (better than sair imo). expand with 1 templar with storm 1 archon 2 probes then just win the ground battle. in pvp you will have the opportunity to storm drop fast (which is better for killing probes than reaver drop) and pvt you are fine against anything but a fast expander. it requires you to play a lot with it before your timing becomes good, but it is very solid once you do.

any suggestion such as "dont play vs random" is gay as hell and people who dodge any matchups at all shouldn't play ladders.


That's what I do on most island maps with P. Just seems to be the most well rounded, safe build. I like to try and go 1 dt, 1 ht, 2 zeal drop and kill workers fairly early vs toss and terran, use archon/storm/cannon to fast exp and overwhelm zerg.
8882
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
2718 Posts
March 31 2005 00:09 GMT
#19
/theorycraft mode on

wouldnt a scout be better than a corsair? it can hunt ovies, it can kill shuttle/dropship faster and harass workers to some degree. on the other hand its buildtime is much slower

/theorycraft mode off
I have returned
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28709 Posts
March 31 2005 00:36 GMT
#20
no. scouts are useless against both someone going hydradrop (cept you manage to kill lords outside his main that would die against sair as well) and it's also useless against someone going muta (because it is so much slower both build time and movement wise that you wouldn't even reach his main before he had muta/scourge out. )

they're better at killing shuttles and dropships I'll admit that, but they're just too damn slow.

Moderator
ronhaak
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada98 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-03-31 04:02:36
March 31 2005 04:00 GMT
#21
I really like the templar opening. I find that reaver is just a bit too risky when facing zerg, even if he does go hydra.Temps seem to allow me a greater chance of expanding and holding it. My 2 biggest problems currently are surviving the initial hydra push on lower ground, while trying to keep my gates alive, and making sure I dont lose my shuttle in case of hydra drop to my main. The last game I played I lost my 2 shuttles to scourge and my opponent fake dropped my expo and landed in my main...and me with no ferry capabilities. Thanks for the tips, I will continue to practice opening with templar until I can really get my timing right. Cheers

P.S anyone else notice that you cant build a pylon on high ground and place your gates below it when starting at the 2 top positions? Both bottom ones work properly, with enough room to place 2 gateways, but the pylon range at the top doesnt seem to reach. Weird~
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17017 Posts
March 31 2005 04:40 GMT
#22
It's because the cliffs on top are "thicker", as they have more drawing space. You don't see the cliff face on the bottom two locations.
Moderator
MPXMX
Profile Joined December 2002
Canada4309 Posts
March 31 2005 05:04 GMT
#23
AHA! So that's quite a difference between positions on NFZ... Now I know what to hope for when playing P
MPXMX
Profile Joined December 2002
Canada4309 Posts
March 31 2005 05:06 GMT
#24
Hello, my name is MPXMX and I'm a Strategy forum addict.
cromiumatari
Profile Joined April 2006
India1 Post
April 23 2006 19:26 GMT
#25
if ur a protos just build 2 gyser 2 star gate templar cydar
templar archive a drop ship and four tempar all of this must be done quicly enough
and take those templars in the drop ship to the opponents base and leave them here where the minierals are located look into if the templars destroy the base alone


this way u can irritate the oponent
and make him leave the game
roclamation
gulii
Profile Joined November 2004
Sweden2791 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-04-23 19:58:48
April 23 2006 19:57 GMT
#26
On April 24 2006 04:26 cromiumatari wrote:
if ur a protos just build 2 gyser 2 star gate templar cydar
templar archive a drop ship and four tempar all of this must be done quicly enough
and take those templars in the drop ship to the opponents base and leave them here where the minierals are located look into if the templars destroy the base alone


this way u can irritate the oponent
and make him leave the game


I think you need to read the rules before you start posting next time.
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