Just wondering if there was any solid way to start the early game? Can\\\'t make a standard wall so I guess no-wall/marines are an option, but I mean, protoss has nothing to lose by anticipating no wall and sending a zlot, if only to make you focus on the micro of 2-3 marines vs a zlot. If you lose even 1 marine or just take damage in general, it gets tricker vs. dragoons cuz low-health marines and 1 tank vs zlot/goon isn\\\'t too pretty.

Any thoughts on a low-ground wall? Either two depot or one depot, if only to keep the goon out. I\\\'ve tried it a couple times and it seems like an okay idea, but don\\\'t know completely yet.

Any general advice on overall game plan on this map? The bridges make flanking easier for protoss so are there any good pushing tips? Any particular style that is better fit to this map?

Thanks.

bbz

Sweden416 Posts

March 19 2005 17:22 GMT

if u scout and see a zealot coming, just put a scv infront of ur rines?

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

March 19 2005 18:01 GMT

1 zealot isn't a very big problem if you're gonna get marines at all, just let some scvs help out

basicly theres no cliff so fac/port becomes worthless and tosses know this

generally fast offensive or spider mines are the only things that can make them not take a really quick expansion on those maps

you can fast expo yourself but if the toss has enough info he can expo quicker and take the advantage in a way that he wouldnt be able to on LT

so basicly I'm saying if you can't wall and theres no cliff, you have to build marines anyway so learn to play fast offensive or fake it, you need it in a lot of situations on such a map

iD.Surv

Belgium827 Posts

March 19 2005 18:51 GMT

i would take fast expo and make some vultures to delay expands on other mains for toss. You can take 2 more expo as terran after ur natural its all close to eachoter.. So basicly macro like a madman and some vulture groups walking around the map to prevent a sauron. Make sure u have grades ready when 4 carriers pop up.

ZpuX

Sweden1230 Posts

March 19 2005 19:07 GMT

GroT, thats why fact/port is a good strat, no toss expekt it. Anf or example if terran starts at 5 and toss at 11, it's damn easy. Since you can push trough the mineral only expansion and a toss cant do a shit in there, and the way leads straight to your main.. but otherwise it's very hard.

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

March 19 2005 19:52 GMT

On March 20 2005 04:07 ZpuX wrote:
GroT, thats why fact/port is a good strat, no toss expekt it. Anf or example if terran starts at 5 and toss at 11, it's damn easy. Since you can push trough the mineral only expansion and a toss cant do a shit in there, and the way leads straight to your main.. but otherwise it's very hard.

are you a korean guy?

if you wonna use the worst possible build on every map because they have surprise factor and hope u'll get lucky, be my guest

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

March 19 2005 20:00 GMT

well maybe with optimal circumstances you could do it once in your life ;(

ZpuX

Sweden1230 Posts

March 19 2005 20:05 GMT

... how many times do you put goons around your main on a map like luna? thats like saying drop is worthless on LT too, since you can take your mineral only before the gas...

GoGG

Germany92 Posts

March 20 2005 00:37 GMT

sorry grot he got a good point -.-

pheered.user

United States2603 Posts

March 20 2005 00:50 GMT

#10

On March 20 2005 05:05 ZpuX wrote:
... how many times do you put goons around your main on a map like luna? thats like saying drop is worthless on LT too, since you can take your mineral only before the gas...

Dropship is totally useless on LT unless the protoss does some stupid build and you can take advantage of it.

iD.Surv

Belgium827 Posts

March 20 2005 02:56 GMT

#11

opening with starport is possible on lt. toss makes shutle and expos while u take expo etc etc

on luna toss dont make shutle and can use the robo for more obs and expo faster

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

March 20 2005 03:12 GMT

#12

dude in order to make it a safe fac port on luna you'd have to get sooooo many marines, like 5-6

if you don't kill a SHITLOAD of probes with your first drop you are in bad fucking shape

and you won't if he just retreats in time

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

March 20 2005 03:14 GMT

#13

let's say 5 marines, ebay before cc, probably 2 turrets, tanks, siege before cc

really late cc for a 1fac build

only 1fac to start your macro from

slowest.
macro.
ever.

ZpuX

Sweden1230 Posts

March 20 2005 03:30 GMT

#14

grot why do you need 5-6 marines? if you dont wall and the toss goes one zealot he will probobly send it to you asap, and hunt the marines, and as you said if you know how to micro your marines you will be np without any losses. and then you just need like max 3 marines to stop the first goon, if he goes another zealot you will have a tank ready so thats not a problem either.

but hey thats not the problem, since it is the same on LT I am just saying that you can go ds and got an adventage, and no it maight not be the most effective strat but since a toss dont expekt it you can pull if off!! thats the whole question.

EAGER-beaver

Canada2799 Posts

March 20 2005 08:38 GMT

#15

On luna, it comes down to raw macro. One handy trick is to make it look like you're going for a fast gundam rush off of a 1 fact to fast expo build. Do this by "faking" an attacking of 4 or so marines with a tank and possibly mine upgrade. Remember, this is done just so toss goes defensive and goes robo double gate b4 he expos, giving you a slight advantage with your fast expo. Macro whore it up with 5 facs by minute 8 and start the first push around 10. Now since it's open ground and you won't have turret cover, zealot bombs absolutely devastate your tanks in siege mode and make your vultures victims to waves of goons. This is why I usually go 4 fac + starport, just so I can make a few wraiths to stop the zealots from popping out on top of my tanks. As longs as you keep those tanks sieged and match his macro, you'll be able to overpower toss ground on luna.

Dl33ter

Canada197 Posts

March 20 2005 10:03 GMT

#16

It truly is like whoever designed Luna was asking himself: "What would the ultimate anti-terran map look like ?".

I mean far away ramps, far away mains, no wall-in, no turret in the middle, no cliff. Come on. Not very serious.

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

March 20 2005 16:23 GMT

#17

On March 20 2005 12:30 ZpuX wrote:
grot why do you need 5-6 marines? if you dont wall and the toss goes one zealot he will probobly send it to you asap, and hunt the marines, and as you said if you know how to micro your marines you will be np without any losses. and then you just need like max 3 marines to stop the first goon, if he goes another zealot you will have a tank ready so thats not a problem either.

but hey thats not the problem, since it is the same on LT I am just saying that you can go ds and got an adventage, and no it maight not be the most effective strat but since a toss dont expekt it you can pull if off!! thats the whole question.

if you have only 1factory you need that many marines to be safe from all possible toss openings

even if you kill quite a few probes you'll still be even/losing, that's why im saying fac/port blows on luna

x2fst

1272 Posts

March 20 2005 17:03 GMT

#18

i always thought fac cc was the 'best' build on luna

yOOysi

Poland726 Posts

March 20 2005 20:37 GMT

#19

On March 20 2005 17:38 EAGER-beaver wrote:
On luna, it comes down to raw macro. One handy trick is to make it look like you're going for a fast gundam rush off of a 1 fact to fast expo build. Do this by "faking" an attacking of 4 or so marines with a tank and possibly mine upgrade. Remember, this is done just so toss goes defensive and goes robo double gate b4 he expos, giving you a slight advantage with your fast expo. Macro whore it up with 5 facs by minute 8 and start the first push around 10. Now since it's open ground and you won't have turret cover, zealot bombs absolutely devastate your tanks in siege mode and make your vultures victims to waves of goons. This is why I usually go 4 fac + starport, just so I can make a few wraiths to stop the zealots from popping out on top of my tanks. As longs as you keep those tanks sieged and match his macro, you'll be able to overpower toss ground on luna.

Very nice

But I prefer to build fast armory and +1 attack and 2-3 goliaths with good micro it will be more effective than Wrights... Armory 100M 50Gas +1 100M 100Gas So u los only 150 gas and U have a +1 siege tanks take 75 dmg. = More goons blows ^^

If u play starport u lose 100 Gas for Starport and 100 Gas for each wright and u haven't a +1 attack....

And always goliaths kill few zealots.

Btw.
Playing a Gundam fake Push is very good idea, but u must remember to build a bunker in your fast natural expansion, becasue good toss will make a killer counter with his 2 gate ranged goons.

ZpuX

Sweden1230 Posts

March 20 2005 22:44 GMT

#20

I dissagree with you in a few points.
1. All tosses will go robo anyway.
2. 2/3 tosses will go 2 gate anyway.
3. When the toss see your fast exp with obb he will make his second exp. And you are still behind in 1 exp. And wraigths? sry to say it but worst ide ever. And you will never be able to macro like a toss with 1 less expansion if you are the same skill lvl. And asap you get your second a good toss wil go and get another main. On a map like this you MUST harass him in anyway, vultures tank drop, w-ever. Just make sure that he has troubles expanding while you take your second.

And GroT I really dont think you have any idea of how the game is played, and hmm I do think you can wall on Luna. And your point "the toss has alot of different openings so you need alot of marines" that doesent hold either, he cant goon rush you since your tanks will have siege cuz you go drop. So the only build left is 3 gate goon with a shuttle and 4 zeal? well that sets the toss back way to much and a good terran know how to fend it off, and anyway if he does it and not succed then you are way ahead of him in expansions. So I wonder what speciall protoss opening you are talking about?