On November 28 2021 15:33 DyEnasTy wrote: What is the simplest/easiest build for Terrans in TvZ? I play casually with my friends and family and I have 1 younger member who has passed me in APM and multitasking (Im an old ass man now give me a break!). TvZ has always been my weakest matchup and now that I only play occasionally, I need something thats easy to execute. Thanks!
I think the simplest is one barracks expand directly into goliath if you can wall natural Or vulture expand into goliath, either one works
you make 3 factories and +1 armor and move out at 12 goliaths, macro behind it and get tanks eventually
decide if you want to timing attack with siege or take a third and tech up, get more upgrades
This is viable to the pro level, but doesn't require high APM or going all in, you can play just expanding and taking bases style without much strain
Thanks for the responses! I was looking on liquipedia and the TvZ builds seemed so convoluted and had so many branches compared to TvP which has always been by far my best matchup.
Is there an easy way to download different maps in remastered? I just stumbled across Flash vs Action on Roadrunner and dang that got the nostalgia flowing, so Id like to introduce my friends to it. They are all very unfamiliar with the old BW scene, but absolutely love the game.
On November 29 2021 15:23 DyEnasTy wrote: Thanks for the responses! I was looking on liquipedia and the TvZ builds seemed so convoluted and had so many branches compared to TvP which has always been by far my best matchup.
Is there an easy way to download different maps in remastered? I just stumbled across Flash vs Action on Roadrunner and dang that got the nostalgia flowing, so Id like to introduce my friends to it. They are all very unfamiliar with the old BW scene, but absolutely love the game.
On November 29 2021 15:23 DyEnasTy wrote: Thanks for the responses! I was looking on liquipedia and the TvZ builds seemed so convoluted and had so many branches compared to TvP which has always been by far my best matchup.
Is there an easy way to download different maps in remastered? I just stumbled across Flash vs Action on Roadrunner and dang that got the nostalgia flowing, so Id like to introduce my friends to it. They are all very unfamiliar with the old BW scene, but absolutely love the game.
There should be an ICCup map pack that you can download. You can also download the maps directly from TLPD by right-clicking the link and using save as to save it. On that note, roadrunner is a great fun map so good call.
On November 29 2021 15:23 DyEnasTy wrote: Thanks for the responses! I was looking on liquipedia and the TvZ builds seemed so convoluted and had so many branches compared to TvP which has always been by far my best matchup.
Is there an easy way to download different maps in remastered? I just stumbled across Flash vs Action on Roadrunner and dang that got the nostalgia flowing, so Id like to introduce my friends to it. They are all very unfamiliar with the old BW scene, but absolutely love the game.
Unfortunately that site didnt have the cool version for melee, only the last version that lost all its style. But thanks for the link, I am downloading other maps too!
On November 29 2021 15:23 DyEnasTy wrote: Thanks for the responses! I was looking on liquipedia and the TvZ builds seemed so convoluted and had so many branches compared to TvP which has always been by far my best matchup.
Is there an easy way to download different maps in remastered? I just stumbled across Flash vs Action on Roadrunner and dang that got the nostalgia flowing, so Id like to introduce my friends to it. They are all very unfamiliar with the old BW scene, but absolutely love the game.
Unfortunately that site didnt have the cool version for melee, only the last version that lost all its style. But thanks for the link, I am downloading other maps too!
EDIT: How do I get those maps into remastered?
If you're on Windows, they should be in something like C -> Documents and Settings -> StarCraft -> Maps.
BigFan above was right, TLPD is a great resource for pro maps, not sure how I forgot that since that is where I always got my tourney maps 😂
Why do some terran players not wall in during tvp. I thought it denies the scout and zealot aggro, so why do some not bother with it?
Next question, at very low ranks in pvt, I often play against a terran that walls in. So I have no scouting information and can only leave some units at his nat. Then he floats cc to his nat while pushing out my units with upgraded tanks and turtling up. Usually, they will then do blind turret rings around the base, so I can't do any drops at all or send an observer in. Finally after turtling for a while, he will start to push out and end up containing me while slowly choking me to gg.
Now because obviously I'm very low skilled, I often miss supply/macro/upgrade etc so my unit count is low etc and I believe that's why I lose. My question is, given how obviously ineffecient the terran is playing (late expo, blind unnecessary turret ring etc even if I don't have a shuttle), theoretically how would a competent protoss player beat this?
Lastly, what is pusagi? I know it's protoss related, but I'm not sure what's the origin.
On December 02 2021 23:59 DucK- wrote: Why do some terran players not wall in during tvp. I thought it denies the scout and zealot aggro, so why do some not bother with it?
Next question, at very low ranks in pvt, I often play against a terran that walls in. So I have no scouting information and can only leave some units at his nat. Then he floats cc to his nat while pushing out my units with upgraded tanks and turtling up. Usually, they will then do blind turret rings around the base, so I can't do any drops at all or send an observer in. Finally after turtling for a while, he will start to push out and end up containing me while slowly choking me to gg.
Now because obviously I'm very low skilled, I often miss supply/macro/upgrade etc so my unit count is low etc and I believe that's why I lose. My question is, given how obviously ineffecient the terran is playing (late expo, blind unnecessary turret ring etc even if I don't have a shuttle), theoretically how would a competent protoss player beat this?
Lastly, what is pusagi? I know it's protoss related, but I'm not sure what's the origin.
1) Walling is simply inefficient for many modern builds. Consider the travel time it takes for an SCV to get to the walling location and then back to work. If you're a strong player, it's simply unnecessary as you have sim city options next to your CC. For walls that need two Depots, you may have to place the second Depot earlier than you need it in order to actually stop a Zealot rush/pressure, incurring further opportunity cost. Also, you will still have to make Marines to either defend your wall, or invest SCVs into repairing the wall, because Protoss units will often arrive to harass before you have a Tank to prevent them from doing so. Finally, walling can cause clutter at your ramp long-term, preventing your units from getting out (or in) efficiently. I'm sure there are other reasons that are above my pay grade, so to speak, but this is just a few.
EDIT: Another consideration is that it is simply unnecessary when with proper control, you can improve your expansion timing by building the CC directly in the nat with relatively safe builds like Fac Bunker expand.
2) If the Terran is adding so many Turrets, he is wasting a lot of early minerals, which is incurring opportunity cost. That means you could be ahead in tech, eco, macro, or a combination of those things. However, it should be relatively rare for Terran to prevent your Observer entirely; maybe try going in by hugging one of the edges of the map, or probing for an entry point. I doubt they can make a full ring all at once in time if your Observer timing is sound. Maybe review your BO to see if you are getting Obs too late? Compare your replays with progamer timings.
Your answer is in your question; you need to get better at getting ahead of a slow Terran player. A competent Protoss will out-expand, out-macro, and/or out-tech the turtle Terran. Builds like 2 base Arbiter can keep the Terran on the back foot for a while. Having a large Gateway army with Shuttles can keep Terran contained on 2-3 bases forever because you got a unit advantage early on and can stomp out their attempts at moving out. You have to make sure you are engaging well and killing their Tank count, while resupplying your army. It just comes down to fundamentals, which will come with concerted effort and practice.
TLDR: I don't think there is some magic formula or secret technique that competent Protoss players have, they just do the same things you are doing but better. So, you have to get better.
On December 02 2021 07:09 Magic Powers wrote: This video just got recommended to me. It was uploaded in 2009, so this has been known for a long time. Can anyone explain the mechanics behind this?
Just gonna copy-paste my reply from somewhere else here:
I think the explanation behind this is that BW pathfinding, as we all know, is marginally less than perfect. Interestingly, here, as on top of the ramp to the NE main of La Mancha, where the same bug can happen with a Barracks, it happens on the top left corner of the building with the gap between the building collision box and the terrain being exactly the width (16px) as the Zergling. So there might be a pattern here if you want to try and reproduce it and investigate further. I have not looked into the finer details of collision detection (yet? O_o), so I cannot tell you what exactly does not work out as expected here…
On December 02 2021 23:59 DucK- wrote: Why do some terran players not wall in during tvp. I thought it denies the scout and zealot aggro, so why do some not bother with it?
Next question, at very low ranks in pvt, I often play against a terran that walls in. So I have no scouting information and can only leave some units at his nat. Then he floats cc to his nat while pushing out my units with upgraded tanks and turtling up. Usually, they will then do blind turret rings around the base, so I can't do any drops at all or send an observer in. Finally after turtling for a while, he will start to push out and end up containing me while slowly choking me to gg.
Now because obviously I'm very low skilled, I often miss supply/macro/upgrade etc so my unit count is low etc and I believe that's why I lose. My question is, given how obviously ineffecient the terran is playing (late expo, blind unnecessary turret ring etc even if I don't have a shuttle), theoretically how would a competent protoss player beat this?
Lastly, what is pusagi? I know it's protoss related, but I'm not sure what's the origin.
1) Walling is simply inefficient for many modern builds. Consider the travel time it takes for an SCV to get to the walling location and then back to work. If you're a strong player, it's simply unnecessary as you have sim city options next to your CC. For walls that need two Depots, you may have to place the second Depot earlier than you need it in order to actually stop a Zealot rush/pressure, incurring further opportunity cost. Also, you will still have to make Marines to either defend your wall, or invest SCVs into repairing the wall, because Protoss units will often arrive to harass before you have a Tank to prevent them from doing so. Finally, walling can cause clutter at your ramp long-term, preventing your units from getting out (or in) efficiently. I'm sure there are other reasons that are above my pay grade, so to speak, but this is just a few.
EDIT: Another consideration is that it is simply unnecessary when with proper control, you can improve your expansion timing by building the CC directly in the nat with relatively safe builds like Fac Bunker expand.
2) If the Terran is adding so many Turrets, he is wasting a lot of early minerals, which is incurring opportunity cost. That means you could be ahead in tech, eco, macro, or a combination of those things. However, it should be relatively rare for Terran to prevent your Observer entirely; maybe try going in by hugging one of the edges of the map, or probing for an entry point. I doubt they can make a full ring all at once in time if your Observer timing is sound. Maybe review your BO to see if you are getting Obs too late? Compare your replays with progamer timings.
Your answer is in your question; you need to get better at getting ahead of a slow Terran player. A competent Protoss will out-expand, out-macro, and/or out-tech the turtle Terran. Builds like 2 base Arbiter can keep the Terran on the back foot for a while. Having a large Gateway army with Shuttles can keep Terran contained on 2-3 bases forever because you got a unit advantage early on and can stomp out their attempts at moving out. You have to make sure you are engaging well and killing their Tank count, while resupplying your army. It just comes down to fundamentals, which will come with concerted effort and practice.
TLDR: I don't think there is some magic formula or secret technique that competent Protoss players have, they just do the same things you are doing but better. So, you have to get better.
On November 28 2021 15:33 DyEnasTy wrote: What is the simplest/easiest build for Terrans in TvZ? I play casually with my friends and family and I have 1 younger member who has passed me in APM and multitasking (Im an old ass man now give me a break!). TvZ has always been my weakest matchup and now that I only play occasionally, I need something thats easy to execute. Thanks!
I think the simplest is one barracks expand directly into goliath if you can wall natural Or vulture expand into goliath, either one works
you make 3 factories and +1 armor and move out at 12 goliaths, macro behind it and get tanks eventually
decide if you want to timing attack with siege or take a third and tech up, get more upgrades
This is viable to the pro level, but doesn't require high APM or going all in, you can play just expanding and taking bases style without much strain
Is this Flash's 5 factory goliath build in liquipedia? There isnt much on mech builds in liquipedia. I wonder if because the matchup can go in so many different ways compared to TvP, that its better to just go by relative timings and making a lot of adjustments based on what you scout?
what could Soma have done differently? The only "adjustment" I could think of is to focus on getting the last mining base on the map instead of killing the Protoss' main
he wasted money on ultralisk drops and guardians, but he had to try SOMETHING, right?
But even then, archon/dark archon/reaver seems unbeatable since they just feed back the defilers
You can broodling the templars, but technically they can just load them into shuttles and keep the shuttles over cannons
does anyone know precisely what inputs causes the stuck goons (and hydra/gols/marines) glitch? i notice it happens more when my execution isnt clean, like if im anxious or trying to go faster than i can be precise
technically a double post but it's been over a month so, yeah
On January 26 2022 17:31 quaristice wrote: does anyone know precisely what inputs causes the stuck goons (and hydra/gols/marines) glitch? i notice it happens more when my execution isnt clean, like if im anxious or trying to go faster than i can be precise
technically a double post but it's been over a month so, yeah
quaristice i only see that with goons! But let me give you a tip: when goons get stuck (cause they are so clumsy) press S 3 times and it's all good! but, if they are stuck on a ramp , like some ramps on FS, then it's a bit harder !!
On January 26 2022 17:31 quaristice wrote: does anyone know precisely what inputs causes the stuck goons (and hydra/gols/marines) glitch? i notice it happens more when my execution isnt clean, like if im anxious or trying to go faster than i can be precise
technically a double post but it's been over a month so, yeah
quaristice i only see that with goons! But let me give you a tip: when goons get stuck (cause they are so clumsy) press S 3 times and it's all good! but, if they are stuck on a ramp , like some ramps on FS, then it's a bit harder !!
oh it definitely happens with hydras and marines and goliaths and medics too. just for some reason it happens more with goons.
i know how to get them unstuck but what im wondering is what makes them stuck in the first place, and how to avoid it?
it definitely seems to not just be random because i've noticed when im precise and slow and clean with my inputs it doesnt happen as much.
EPT
