On September 19 2021 03:07 Ballnazor wrote:
how do i make PvP fun, its such a dogshit fucking matchup, im hardstuck at 1700 because i drop every PvP

if you don't like it, just proxy 2 gate to get it over with quickly

DigiMask

5 Posts

September 19 2021 03:14 GMT

#9402

I am a newbie. I have two questions:

1/ Let's say the opponent have a range of tanks, and I have good vision of them. I also have a group of Queens that I want to spawn the tanks into broodlings. I ctrl-1 the Queens. What is the fastest way to do that? The only way I know is to hit 1, click on a Queen, hit the target, and 1 again, to choose another target. but with that I might click on the same Queen twice. I saw that Zerg players omit the used Queen out of the group 1 - how to do that efficiently? Or is there other way than the slow method that I am using?

2/ How to organize an unit to hit several target in a pre-determined order? Or such as move to location A, and after that to location B?

Thanks

Liquid`Drone

Norway26938 Posts

September 19 2021 11:23 GMT

#9403

First, if you have a group of queens with mixed energy so not all of them have 150, you should tell the entire group to broodling a unit just to see which ones start moving.

From that point, what you should do is a technique referred to as 'cloning'. You select all the queens with energy, tell all of them to broodling one tank, then hold down shift while you click on one of the icons of the grouped queens. (You can press the actual queens too, but that's far less reliable with a bunch of moving ones.) This deselects that queen from your group. Say you had 6 queens initially that you told to broodling the first tank - now you have 5 left. Then tell those 5 to broodling another tank, shift-click another queen from your group, now you have 4 left. Then tell those 4 to broodling a new tank, etc, all the way down to 1.

Make sure you have enough distance before you start cloning - or tell your remaining queens to stop their action before you reach the target, because otherwise you risk wasting a lot of energy. Unless you have parasited a terran unit, you will also normally have a fairly short window in terms of having vision of the terran army. Cloning broodlings is one of the areas of brood war where mouse speed and precision are the most important. It might well be good for you to use smaller groups- 3-4-5 queens, until you get the hang of it.

You can use shift to queue commands. If you hold shift while issuing several commands, your units will do them in the order you commanded them to. Does not work with sieged tanks (for whatever reason). Units also do tend to make a tiny pause when they reach their first target, so movement is even smoother and faster if you actively control your unit. (This is a significant factor when controlling your scouting worker in the early game. Giving it shift commands to move around the opponent's base makes it fairly easy to block it off and kill it, while actively controlling it makes it really hard. )

DigiMask

5 Posts

September 25 2021 04:04 GMT

#9404

Thanks, that's super helpful.

iopq

United States534 Posts

September 25 2021 09:45 GMT

#9405

On September 15 2021 13:29 evilfatsh1t wrote:
you dont need to wait until 7 or 8 corsairs. if he comes to harrass, defend with cannons and run around with your corsairs as well as possible to keep them from dying. your zealots should be running to his base to buy time or harrass.
if he doesnt come to harrass then you only need 5 corsairs with +1 to move out. if you control your corsairs well (ie. dont lose them stupidly to scourges), 5 corsairs will kill scourges before they hit and then you have easy air superiority. even if you lose a few corsairs you should have 1 or 2 more in production before you stop building corsairs so you get to maintain at least 5

if it's 5 corsairs with +1, what are you going to do against 12+ scourge all flying in with the 5 mutas? there's no way to kill them unless they stack into one area

Just make an archon and throw down a third

evilfatsh1t

Australia5704 Posts

September 26 2021 00:54 GMT

#9406

5 sairs kills any scourges that come from the same direction. if your opponent is good enough to split all his scourges and fly at you from all different directions then you should put in an equal effort to maneuver your corsairs to give you a better angle to hit them.
and if youve got 5 sairs in proper time theyre not going to have 12 scourges with a bunch of mutas. itll be less

Immaterial

Canada496 Posts

September 26 2021 19:57 GMT

#9407

Does anyone know where I can find good wall ins for new maps? Liquidpedia only has them for older maps atm. Ofc I can just test in singleplayer and come up with my own walls but it’s nice to learn the optimal placements. Thanks guys

jello_biafra

United Kingdom6614 Posts

September 27 2021 14:17 GMT

#9408

On September 27 2021 04:57 Immaterial wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find good wall ins for new maps? Liquidpedia only has them for older maps atm. Ofc I can just test in singleplayer and come up with my own walls but it’s nice to learn the optimal placements. Thanks guys

https://broodwall.com/

There you go.

MeSaber

Sweden568 Posts

September 28 2021 02:16 GMT

#9409

Lol cool site but it needs expanding.

Also they intermixed TH and BGH o.O Completely different maps.

MeSaber

Sweden568 Posts

September 28 2021 02:43 GMT

#9410

You can use (Wiki)

ScmDraft 2

- https://i.imgur.com/7eU1ZmK.png
[image loading]

Replay: https://www.file.io/download/KGRsMrNfEczR

Where this would be the correct wall:

- https://i.imgur.com/0o8mjEf.png
[image loading]

Using this you dont need any in-game trial and error. You do however need open maps and thats another issue. You can reconstruct the entrance using SCMDraft and just test that part, be sure to use correct cliffs and edges as that matters. Here is some proof of that:

- https://i.imgur.com/PIOQbtK.png
[image loading]

One of the more famous edge-tiles if you are a Hunter/BGH player. This makes the Marine spawn on correct side:

- https://i.imgur.com/PGkzLNj.png
[image loading]

Now you can also see why having 100 types of Hunter/BGH (or of any other map for that reason) makes a huge difference to what works and not. Just a tiny change on cliff/edge/doodad can change how you place your buildings, and also if you win or lose :D
.
.

And exploits:

- https://i.imgur.com/Rxo5Tfp.png
[image loading]

iopq

United States534 Posts

October 03 2021 12:13 GMT

#9411

On September 26 2021 09:54 evilfatsh1t wrote:
5 sairs kills any scourges that come from the same direction. if your opponent is good enough to split all his scourges and fly at you from all different directions then you should put in an equal effort to maneuver your corsairs to give you a better angle to hit them.
and if youve got 5 sairs in proper time theyre not going to have 12 scourges with a bunch of mutas. itll be less

Zerg can build scourge and muta out of 5 hatcheries, basically only limited by the speed of the second and third gas

if 5 sairs could kill all of Zerg's production by that point (we're talking 7-8 minutes into the game) nobody would go muta ever

evilfatsh1t

Australia5704 Posts

October 03 2021 14:07 GMT

#9412

whats your point?
you asked how toss would deal with roughly 5 mutas and a handful of scourges and the answer is to have minimum 5 sairs with +1.
suddenly you change the scenario and zerg is mass producing mutas and scourge out of 5 hatcheries? well then you just make up to 7-8 sairs and defend in base until you hit that number with cannons. then you literally a click to their base with +1 speedlots and +1 sairs and laugh because they were dumb enough to use all their resources on mass muta/scourge.
nobody does go mass mutas to stop +1 pushes, so your scenario is irrelevant. players go muta after their hydras and lurkers are out to stop the subsequent pushes with ht, not to block the first zealot/sair attack.

and the reason why using 5 sairs with +1 is the recommended response is because protoss wants to be the aggressor as much as possible. if you do what you suggested and just sit back and take a 3rd, you better be much better than the zerg because its more of a pain to win. you have to forfeit map control to zerg for a long time while you dream about reaver/ht compositions

Soulforged

Latvia786 Posts

October 04 2021 20:04 GMT

#9413

On October 03 2021 23:07 evilfatsh1t wrote:well then you just make up to 7-8 sairs and defend in base until you hit that number with cannons. then you literally a click to their base with +1 speedlots and +1 sairs and laugh because they were dumb enough to use all their resources on mass muta/scourge

Assuming both sides micro, it is a disengage for the protoss with +1 8 sairs vs a +1 muta/scourge cloud. (5/6 hatch 3 gas)

Good enough to force not just drones, not good enough to commit to an attack with zealots.

If there's also an archon escorting the sairs, P can do an attack but it can still go south depending on the micro.

Considering that, saying it is an a-move win for protoss with just sairs is a bit much.

nobody does go mass mutas to stop +1 pushes, so your scenario is irrelevant. players go muta after their hydras and lurkers are out to stop the subsequent pushes with ht, not to block the first zealot/sair attack.

Ehh, muta/mass scourge defense has been around for a few years now, specially on maps with easy to defend 3rd gas.
It is pretty damn strong.

Note: I'm not saying you shouldn't go for 8(or more) sairs with +1 vs this, I'm saying just 1 stargate production ain't enough and scourge flanks are strong.

iopq

United States534 Posts

October 08 2021 14:49 GMT

#9414

On October 03 2021 23:07 evilfatsh1t wrote:
whats your point?
you asked how toss would deal with roughly 5 mutas and a handful of scourges and the answer is to have minimum 5 sairs with +1.
suddenly you change the scenario and zerg is mass producing mutas and scourge out of 5 hatcheries? well then you just make up to 7-8 sairs and defend in base until you hit that number with cannons. then you literally a click to their base with +1 speedlots and +1 sairs and laugh because they were dumb enough to use all their resources on mass muta/scourge.
nobody does go mass mutas to stop +1 pushes, so your scenario is irrelevant. players go muta after their hydras and lurkers are out to stop the subsequent pushes with ht, not to block the first zealot/sair attack.

and the reason why using 5 sairs with +1 is the recommended response is because protoss wants to be the aggressor as much as possible. if you do what you suggested and just sit back and take a 3rd, you better be much better than the zerg because its more of a pain to win. you have to forfeit map control to zerg for a long time while you dream about reaver/ht compositions

I didn't ask the question, I'm just saying Zerg sitting around making mass scourge is actually very strong since they only cost gas, so it's easy to switch into mass hydra behind it

You go 5 muta, make scourge as necessary while getting six hatcheries, a sunken at each place, hydra den, evo chamber

it's not very smart to try to go into a zerg wall-in with just zealots even if their hydras have no upgrades yet

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