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On July 24 2022 19:28 MeSaber wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2022 12:32 WGT-Baal wrote:Very interesting thanks! do you have a protoss one by any chance? I do not need the translation I understand Korean well enough  Protoss is exactly the same. You need to practice muscle memory. There is no easy way to become good unless you practice like Soma does in this vid. For Protoss you would want to practice storms vs mass incoming units and reaver control too. Just make a UMS where PC is forcing itself onto you and make a stats counter how much you killed until you die. Then make a restart button and repeat it until you do 9/10 times good result. One difference T/P has for location hotkeys is spamming rallypoint to wherever you want your army to go after produce. This could be for example just outside your enemys base. This could be done in mere 2-3 seconds and it will save you A LOT OF TIME not having to go back to base gathering forces that you need.
For sure a lot are common but as you say it d be nice to see how they handle base layout and multiple bases (zerg typically uses less space since it s all from hatcheries).
I know there is no easy way to get good, i m also not expecting to (no time), it s more curiosity on how things used to work in teamhouses
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Why do some pro players(f.e. Rush) switch to classic SD graphics during game start countdown and then switch back to HD graphics after sending workers to minerals?
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On September 02 2022 08:05 parkin wrote:
Why do some pro players(f.e. Rush) switch to classic SD graphics during game start countdown and then switch back to HD graphics after sending workers to minerals?
When you have widescreen and start at sides you dont have your cc in the center. By using SD its more centralized so you move your mouse shorter distance.
Thats my guess at least. Snow does it too sometimes.
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It's not about centering on nex- standard graphics loads faster so you can build your worker a second faster.
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On September 03 2022 01:34 ArmadA[NaS] wrote:
It's not about centering on nex- standard graphics loads faster so you can build your worker a second faster.
Thats just bullshit. Its the same engine and the SD graphics is just emulated its not actually 640x480 as from the original game.
Second the games are synced so noone has advantage.
If a game loads and your workers can move at once that means you have the same load time as the other guy, otherwise your workers wouldnt move and a lag screen would appear.
Most of us also got PCs way beyond whats necessary for this game.
An example is myself sitting on G3258+750Ti running the game at 144+ fps with ease.
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My bad- it is actually about centering over nexus/cc *but* importantly it's so that you can start a worker during black screen since you have consistent cc/nex position in the center with 4:3. You *could* do that theoretically in wide-screen but its just harder.
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On September 03 2022 05:00 ArmadA[NaS] wrote:
My bad- it is actually about centering over nexus/cc *but* importantly it's so that you can start a worker during black screen since you have consistent cc/nex position in the center with 4:3. You *could* do that theoretically in wide-screen but its just harder.
I guess that depends on the map maker. You could have a map where your CC is so close to the edge that it wouldnt be centralized even in SD mode.
This game doesnt let you move your viewport outside the playable border which would fix this issue. Not that its a big issue imo. Pros just do this because they are complete nerds and want millisecond advantage. Mimicing their play would be ridiculous.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/TYPn8qf.png)
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On May 09 2011 12:36 Ryshi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 10:28 hacklebeast wrote:
If that's what he was asking, it would look something like this:
3 hatch>14cc>12hatch>1 rax fe>12pool>overpool>2 rax>9 pool>bbs>5pool
It's debatable but I would agree this is a reliable reference. Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 09:36 DTK-m2 wrote:
How do the professionals micro their wraiths in different situations (e.g. sniping drones when there's a spore nearby, running away from scourge/muta, and chasing mutas with cloak on)? Wraiths handle like mutas. You can use right click on unit/attack move/hold similarly except you should only hit 1 unit at a time, so only use right click if there's a group of units. When chasing, do moving shot by attacking with right click on unit or attack ground/unit followed by a quick move in the direction you are chasing. Patrol is used for angled attacks or vs scourge, see guides for mutas vs scourge and the chinese triangle. Generally, if you open wraith in TvZ you should first kill overlords before drones. Spore is usually a committed strong counter to wraith as opposed to hydra because your wraiths will go down faster. You should only attack a mineral line with spore when you have an adequate wraith count (enough to kill drone in 1 hit).
so interested for me, thank you
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I saw gypsy mention 13 gas TvP in a BSL cast once, I do not remember the match at the moment. He said it is better then 12 gas except vs nexus first where 12 gas is preferable. What are the details on this 13 gas TvP build?
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a question for TT1 or anyone who watched his games:
I m looking for more details on your corsair-less PvZ: you get 1 gate first, then core and 4 gates. (correct me if I m wrong)
What s the thought process, is it reactive? What do you do vs 3hs? I see you get quick DA in those few games I saw but I wasnt able to find the vods again except for one but the Z took crippling damage early from the zealot harass so I couldnt see that case.
A rough bo (doesnt have to be super precise down to the pylons) and key timings would be amazing
thanks
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On September 23 2022 03:23 WGT-Baal wrote:a question for TT1 or anyone who watched his games: I m looking for more details on your corsair-less PvZ: you get 1 gate first, then core and 4 gates. (correct me if I m wrong) What s the thought process, is it reactive? What do you do vs 3hs? I see you get quick DA in those few games I saw but I wasnt able to find the vods again except for one but the Z took crippling damage early from the zealot harass so I couldnt see that case. A rough bo (doesnt have to be super precise down to the pylons) and key timings would be amazing thanks
The thing about 1g style is that it's very dynamic (you can play it as a freestyle style which i do a lot, that's why i have my own variations), you can do different things based on the amount of damage you do. Not all 1g pressure games are gonna be the same, sometimes u trade very poorly and have to defend vs ling allins, sometimes they defend well and u have no scouting info (hydra or lair/muta?), sometimes you trade very well/you trade well/you trade decent (you won't necessarily follow up the same way in all these scenarios, but you could). So when it comes to aggro/pressure styles in particular, a lot of it comes down to mechanics and how well you're trading/macroing/scouting etc. I'll tell you the general idea but it'll be hard for you to replicate for a long time, defensive macro styles are more consistent/straightforward.
The main idea behind 1g is that you control the flow/pace of the game. When i'm opening 1g i have 2 goals (assuming i'm not playing a no scout/standard macro sair style), 1) what's my opponent doing and what's the best counter (if he's aggro i can't be aggro type stuff) and 2) i need to scout his main for as long as i can. You don't always need to scout Z's main 24/7 with ur probe (you need to do this off forge expo builds), the beauty of 1g is that you can create a lot of chaos and sneak a re-scout in Z's main (either with a rallied zeal or probe). A classic move is hitting Z's 3rd to open up his main, you could also pressure his main with ur zeals but you'd be walking into 2h worth of units/faster rallies.
When i skip stargate it's because i know where i'm at in the game and it allows me to maintain pressure safely. It's not a coincidence that you see me skipping SG in a lot of games where i do strong damage to Z, that's one of the requirements. If i'm going 1g and pressuring (like i've said there's many 1g styles, you can take your gas later and pressure with quicker lots for example) and if i scout 3h hydra, that might be 1 scenario where i skip SG and opt for speedlot ~5'ish gates (i might also just play standard SG depending on how late i see it).
Tbh tho i would recommend playing standard SG vs 3hh to start off with because there's a lot of mind games involved in those type of games (becomes more common the higher up you go in skill, eventually you'll hit a wall). You have no scouting info so there's a dance between Z and P where P doesn't know if Z is going drones/massing hydras/lair behind it. If you have an eco lead and confirm Z is going den, going speedlot early instead of SG is fine.
In normal speedlot/no SG scenarios vs 3hh, if you make too many cannons that'll eat into your zealot counter pressure (you miss timings). If you make too few cannons (you usually don't want more than 4 cannons)/mass gates + zeals you can run into situations where Z is just sitting back and going mass hydra. You need an early move out to confirm Z's hydra count, if you see he's still massing hydras that's when you go into macro mode (probes/take 2nd gas/archive) and add cannons while adding zeals here and there for defense. If you go into macro mode too fast you could risk getting busted, you have to find the right balance of macro/defense in those situations. These type of games usually lead to a defensive DA followup as a catch all vs mutas switches, you're gonna be blind but you'll have an eco lead.
That mass hydra style is actually hard to deal with even when you're massing yourself, because you're stuck behind your wall and the concave favors Z, it's very easy to get busted. The key in speedlot styles is how fast you get it (while probing well/knowing when to cut, you don't wanna put yourself in an allin position) so you can actually see where you're at in the game, think of it as mainly being scouting info. Any damage is bonus.
The situation where i do like speedlot instead of SG is in games where you're doing damage with your 1g and you get a re-scout confirming a slow'ish lair timing. In those games Z is already low eco and hes teching (which hurts his macro), going speedlot basically compounds your early game eco lead because it delays their drone production even more. Z has to make sunks/lings and you know he's going spire behind it (you do this in games where you can be sure the mutas won't be out fast enough to disrupt you). Behind it there's several things you can do, you can goon mass, you can go into cannon/DA or you can go into SG, i'd recommend staying away from SG if you're a beginner. Goon follow up is very strong because you're leveraging your eco lead even more and you already have the production/eco to support it, it also comes early which keeps eating into Z's macro.
If the early game is normal i usually just go into standard SG into either speedlot +1 +1 pressure (off 1 or 2g) with fast storm behind it or fast dt into storm.
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thanks a million for the very detailed and clear answer! I indeed suck with stargate ^^
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how do you decide if/when to transition to lurkers when playing 2h muta ZvT?
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On September 23 2022 07:43 Crunchums wrote:
how do you decide if/when to transition to lurkers when playing 2h muta ZvT?
apparently no one knows that
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On October 10 2022 23:06 ajmbek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2022 07:43 Crunchums wrote:
how do you decide if/when to transition to lurkers when playing 2h muta ZvT? apparently no one knows that
maybe it is not a simple enough question 
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On September 23 2022 07:43 Crunchums wrote:
how do you decide if/when to transition to lurkers when playing 2h muta ZvT?
The answer is quite easy. If you go 2h muta you get mutas enough to be effective with muta harass. Once you reached that goal you need to get either expansion/lings or lurkers to keep winning. If you dont T will have vessels and then mutas wont work anymore.
Lings if you wanna finish early. Lurkers if you need the support to try finish early or contain. Depends how good the T is. Expansion if you feel mutas are enough to hold opponent in shackles, ie your harass is going extremely well.
You didnt come with any argument yourself when to transition so id like to hear your perspective too.
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On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
You didnt come with any argument yourself when to transition so id like to hear your perspective too.
i feel like when i watch good players play they switch at a variety of timings (or not at all), and i have no sense of what's driving their decision. and i am bad, so i don't think my perspective is relevant (I think it would be that I should be playing 3h lurker instead because my micro and multitasking are so bad that mutas don't really accomplish anything for me). but i'm still curious!
On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
The answer is quite easy. If you go 2h muta you get mutas enough to be effective with muta harass. Once you reached that goal you need to get either expansion/lings or lurkers to keep winning. If you dont T will have vessels and then mutas wont work anymore.
Lings if you wanna finish early. Lurkers if you need the support to try finish early or contain. Depends how good the T is. Expansion if you feel mutas are enough to hold opponent in shackles, ie your harass is going extremely well.
maybe i'm just fundamentally confused about 2h mutas as a build in general because my brain is still wired for the 3h muta meta where the entire point of mutas was to buy time for you to get lurkers
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On October 14 2022 13:30 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
You didnt come with any argument yourself when to transition so id like to hear your perspective too. i feel like when i watch good players play they switch at a variety of timings (or not at all), and i have no sense of what's driving their decision. and i am bad, so i don't think my perspective is relevant (I think it would be that I should be playing 3h lurker instead because my micro and multitasking are so bad that mutas don't really accomplish anything for me). but i'm still curious! Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
The answer is quite easy. If you go 2h muta you get mutas enough to be effective with muta harass. Once you reached that goal you need to get either expansion/lings or lurkers to keep winning. If you dont T will have vessels and then mutas wont work anymore.
Lings if you wanna finish early. Lurkers if you need the support to try finish early or contain. Depends how good the T is. Expansion if you feel mutas are enough to hold opponent in shackles, ie your harass is going extremely well. maybe i'm just fundamentally confused about 2h mutas as a build in general because my brain is still wired for the 3h muta meta where the entire point of mutas was to buy time for you to get lurkers
In a very high level view, 2h muta is there to hit faster so while you have less mutas to play with initially (6 vs 9) they come out much faster, Terran also has less marines and it forces turrets earlier, when T would rather spend resources elsewhere.
The timing is important because it nullifies 2 very dangerous T builds : 5 rax and 1-1-1 that may kill a 3hm, but won't be ready for 2hm.
It also gives you map control early and thus gives you the flexibility to enter into a wide array of builds, making it harder for T to guess and counter. You can for instance drone after the first 6 mutas, take a 3rd, or go more mutas, bust with lurkers after the mutas etc There are many options.
It does require ok muta micro though, you do not have to kill many scvs or marines, the goal is to pin T in their base while you can expand/drone up/get more units or tech (up to you)
I hope it helps. You do need to hit the timing right on 2hm because if you re slow you might as well go 3hm with a better eco. I cannot give you very precise BOs after the 2hm for transitions because I am not that good a Z player myself, but this is my understanding of the idea behind the build from watching pro players explanations.
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On October 14 2022 13:30 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
You didnt come with any argument yourself when to transition so id like to hear your perspective too. i feel like when i watch good players play they switch at a variety of timings (or not at all), and i have no sense of what's driving their decision. and i am bad, so i don't think my perspective is relevant (I think it would be that I should be playing 3h lurker instead because my micro and multitasking are so bad that mutas don't really accomplish anything for me). but i'm still curious! Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
The answer is quite easy. If you go 2h muta you get mutas enough to be effective with muta harass. Once you reached that goal you need to get either expansion/lings or lurkers to keep winning. If you dont T will have vessels and then mutas wont work anymore.
Lings if you wanna finish early. Lurkers if you need the support to try finish early or contain. Depends how good the T is. Expansion if you feel mutas are enough to hold opponent in shackles, ie your harass is going extremely well. maybe i'm just fundamentally confused about 2h mutas as a build in general because my brain is still wired for the 3h muta meta where the entire point of mutas was to buy time for you to get lurkers
don't force yourself to do certain builds just because it's the meta and other pros/high lvl players are doing it, your main goal should be to practice your mechanics by going into midd/lategame macro games consistently/safely
and if that's by going oldschool 3h muta (up to 9-11'ish mutas) into lurk/exp/hive, go for it imo
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On October 15 2022 04:19 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2022 13:30 Crunchums wrote:On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
You didnt come with any argument yourself when to transition so id like to hear your perspective too. i feel like when i watch good players play they switch at a variety of timings (or not at all), and i have no sense of what's driving their decision. and i am bad, so i don't think my perspective is relevant (I think it would be that I should be playing 3h lurker instead because my micro and multitasking are so bad that mutas don't really accomplish anything for me). but i'm still curious! On October 14 2022 01:21 MeSaber wrote:
The answer is quite easy. If you go 2h muta you get mutas enough to be effective with muta harass. Once you reached that goal you need to get either expansion/lings or lurkers to keep winning. If you dont T will have vessels and then mutas wont work anymore.
Lings if you wanna finish early. Lurkers if you need the support to try finish early or contain. Depends how good the T is. Expansion if you feel mutas are enough to hold opponent in shackles, ie your harass is going extremely well. maybe i'm just fundamentally confused about 2h mutas as a build in general because my brain is still wired for the 3h muta meta where the entire point of mutas was to buy time for you to get lurkers don't force yourself to do certain builds just because it's the meta and other pros/high lvl players are doing it, your main goal should be to practice your mechanics by going into midd/lategame macro games consistently/safely and if that's by going oldschool 3h muta (up to 9-11'ish mutas) into lurk/exp/hive, go for it imo
but two hatch is actually easier to play because you don't need to adjust your build to counter stupid things, like two port wraith or other weird builds - you will eventually get to mutas if you have sunkens
I died to a one base tank push because he built the factory at my entrance - this is not an issue if your mutas are out when his tank is out since you can just kill everything
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EPT
