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thanks to the building tips, I won my first match with the flash max build! really fun build! Watching goons melt is fun when u aren't the toss.
Another question:
when facing arbiter recalls, is there a certain way that I plan my base so that they can't recall or they are heavily punished for doing so?
1. What I did in my last game was make a turret ring around my base. But if he flew past my turret line...I would have been screwed. I need to lay mines inside my base for sure. should I lay mines right after my turret ring? wouldn't the enemy try to recall as soon as he could get past the turret line? so I don't have to lay mines everywhere, just near my turrets. also, Science vessels can take away their energy so they die to turrets much faster right?
2. When going for the tank push, I shouldn't go for the main right? it's better to go for the expos? but in what situation would you go for the main natural?
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On September 16 2017 22:18 Golgotha wrote:
thanks to the building tips, I won my first match with the flash max build! really fun build! Watching goons melt is fun when u aren't the toss.
Another question:
when facing arbiter recalls, is there a certain way that I plan my base so that they can't recall or they are heavily punished for doing so?
1. What I did in my last game was make a turret ring around my base. But if he flew past my turret line...I would have been screwed. I need to lay mines inside my base for sure. should I lay mines right after my turret ring? wouldn't the enemy try to recall as soon as he could get past the turret line? so I don't have to lay mines everywhere, just near my turrets. also, Science vessels can take away their energy so they die to turrets much faster right?
2. When going for the tank push, I shouldn't go for the main right? it's better to go for the expos? but in what situation would you go for the main natural?
1. Two main things, 3 turrets clustered together in spots where P is likely to fly across to gain access to your main (this kills off a single arbiter for sure) and mines in spots where he's likely to recall, in case he slips through somewhere somehow. That open space close to your factories/depots in your main? That open space at the expo you recently took? Mine them up.
2. That's a bit of a complicated question since getting that type of decision right is what makes or breaks games. Simplified you want to push in directions that give you an advantage (e.g. the ability to secure another expansion during the push or killing off *something* that P values). If P expanded towards you this makes things easy: You push towards his main while getting a 'free' dead expansion on the way.
If P expanded away from you, you need to figure out a plan based on distances, army positioning, movement capabilities and map control (aka vision/minefields/areas with turrets). If you commit too much against his expansion and/or lack mapcontrol you'll get backstabbed. If you commit too much to attacking his main and the push doesn't work out (here he can likely reinforce from two sides) you will likely lose too many tanks in the process and potentially get into trouble. The cookie-cutter version would be pushing towards his expansion while maintaining vision on his main army as best as you can. If he moves to defend his expansion you are in control: A dug in Terran with mines who pressures P to act now or lose his expansion. If he moves to backstab you leave a small force at his expansion to finish it off (3-5 tanks) and move the rest of your army to engage his, combined with reinforcements from your main. This is where that minefield you placed in the way of his major route to your main wins you precious extra seconds.
Wherever you decide to go, don't forget to put up some turrets along the way. Not necessarily to kill anything but to shrink the area in which P can position observers. If he catches you out of position, you're in trouble. Map control is the key that allows you to both macro and move/position yourself properly.
In either scenario the basic idea is similar: Put P under pressure while expanding yourself. If you can cripple his macro capabilities, you're in good shape. If he can cripple your tank count, he gains the upper hand.
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Where you push with your 200 ball is situational depending a lot on the map and how the game played out.
Typically you *do* want to go to for the main to hold that position, cut off reinforcements and section off units to go take out other expansions while you have them contained. Because FS and CB seem to be the most popular maps, I made a quick MS Paint.
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/4569dac76dc97c14ab01c0e5daf51ee0.png)
On FS you want to go to the main but on circuit breaker you kind of want to push towards the min only. Doing it like this gives the most pressure and lets you take out multiple expansions.
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thank you to r.Evo and Carnations, that explains a lot. I did not realize that 3 turrets in a cluster would kill an arbiter. I really need to do that, and mine the areas that aren't covered by the turrets, then I can "bait" the arbiter to recall where I want him to.
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Is there any strategy for controlling mutas against carriers?
Just finished a weird game where I went for a muta harass into his main and discovered some newly built carriers, still mostly empty. I couldn't decide if it's better to attack-move the interceptors, target fire specific interceptors, or just attack the carriers. I think at the time I had 8 mutas and he had like 6 interceptors between 4 carriers, so it was a weirdly even fight that I'd never seen before.
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Norway28712 Posts
mostly just have scourge instead of mutas. or at least devourers in addition cuz the high carrier armor really makes them not do that great.
But in the event where you do have muta vs carrier you definitely want to target the carriers, not the interceptors. The reason why goliaths go for the interceptors is that then they're pretty much always able to fire, whereas targeting the carriers makes them just wander around stupidly. Mutas can get up close and shoot at the carriers. It's definitely far preferable. I guess in a weird scenario where the p has 4 carriers and 6 interceptors and not enough money to rebuild the interceptors, manually targeting individual interceptors is actually gonna be real good, but yeah, that sounds like a once every 20000 games type of scenario. 
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On September 17 2017 10:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:mostly just have scourge instead of mutas. or at least devourers in addition cuz the high carrier armor really makes them not do that great. But in the event where you do have muta vs carrier you definitely want to target the carriers, not the interceptors. The reason why goliaths go for the interceptors is that then they're pretty much always able to fire, whereas targeting the carriers makes them just wander around stupidly. Mutas can get up close and shoot at the carriers. It's definitely far preferable. I guess in a weird scenario where the p has 4 carriers and 6 interceptors and not enough money to rebuild the interceptors, manually targeting individual interceptors is actually gonna be real good, but yeah, that sounds like a once every 20000 games type of scenario.
my thinking was that the interceptors themselves have a pretty short range (looking it up just now, it's 4, compared to the 3 of mutas) so I could probably shoot them. Unfortunately I didn't have quite enough mutas to one-shot them, so even with so few they were healing before I could kill them. I guess I would need 9 mutas to one-shot an interceptor.
Ultimately yeah, this was pointless since i could just start building scourge, and he had other units too. But it was a fun situation to think about.
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In protoss versus terran, there are many ways to stop a terran tank push. Could a veteran toss player tell me when to use what?
1. In the beginning, I simply use my goons to delay the tank and rine push.
2. Next, I get zealots with one shuttle to drop on the tanks.
3. Mid game, I go for storms.
4. Late game I use storms, zealot bombs, and arbiter stasis.
But how do I know when to use what? I get the feeling that I can skip some tech and simply stick with zealot bombs until arbiter. Or I say screw arbiter and zealot bombs, and just go for mass storms. Which is best and how do u know when to use what?
I didn't even mention shuttle/reaver. There are so many ways for toss to destroy a Terran army, it's awesome. Would love to hear some of the thinking behind each strat. thanks!
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You don't need storm before arbiters. High templar are usually a late game option.
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Is there something that effects the range of reavers down ramps? I played a game recently where I had to walk the reaver into enemy goon range, and it STILL couldn't fire. In other games I remember being able to shoot scarabs at farther range.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/AnlctlZ.jpg)
In the pic I was trying to attack the top-most goon.
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On September 19 2017 04:09 Chronopolis wrote:Is there something that effects the range of reavers down ramps? I played a game recently where I had to walk the reaver into enemy goon range, and it STILL couldn't fire. In other games I remember being able to shoot scarabs at farther range. In the pic I was trying to attack the top-most goon.
Reavers are buggy like that in general, even over "normal" ramps. On some maps they are bad even at even ground things like bridges (Destination 4 o'clock for example). As far as I know there is nothing you can do about this. In this situation, your best bet would be to ferry and flank.
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On September 19 2017 04:46 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 04:09 Chronopolis wrote:Is there something that effects the range of reavers down ramps? I played a game recently where I had to walk the reaver into enemy goon range, and it STILL couldn't fire. In other games I remember being able to shoot scarabs at farther range. In the pic I was trying to attack the top-most goon. Reavers are buggy like that in general, even over "normal" ramps. On some maps they are bad even at even ground things like bridges (Destination 4 o'clock for example). As far as I know there is nothing you can do about this. In this situation, your best bet would be to ferry and flank.
Pressing stop/hold on river usually triggers it to shoot the closes objects (highly recommended when approaching strong positions like line of sunkens etc. to avoid the mentioned bug.)
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On September 19 2017 05:11 kogeT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 04:46 Jealous wrote:On September 19 2017 04:09 Chronopolis wrote:Is there something that effects the range of reavers down ramps? I played a game recently where I had to walk the reaver into enemy goon range, and it STILL couldn't fire. In other games I remember being able to shoot scarabs at farther range. In the pic I was trying to attack the top-most goon. Reavers are buggy like that in general, even over "normal" ramps. On some maps they are bad even at even ground things like bridges (Destination 4 o'clock for example). As far as I know there is nothing you can do about this. In this situation, your best bet would be to ferry and flank. Pressing stop/hold on river usually triggers it to shoot the closes objects (highly recommended when approaching strong positions like line of sunkens etc. to avoid the mentioned bug.)
I tried that just recently and it had no effect ): I think terrain can still trump this trick, but of course it is worth it to try better than a-click into dying over and over -_-;
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Thanks for the tips guys. I'll go try both of those things next time. Ferrying the reavers seems pretty workable. It just was pretty tilting being totally at the mercy of the unit ai.
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On September 19 2017 14:12 Chronopolis wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys. I'll go try both of those things next time. Ferrying the reavers seems pretty workable. It just was pretty tilting being totally at the mercy of the unit ai.
I meant more that you should try to ferry some of your army to the lowground, or your 3rd, and then when you go to bust out you walk down your ramp, as well as flanking from the direction of your third with your army + the Reavers. The opponent Protoss, in my experience, will often try to capitalize on the contain and go for an expansion; if you flank his army and kill a lot of it with your Reavers blocking their exit, you have a decent chance at doing some counter damage to their fresh/coming expansion.
Also yea. FROM THE SAME PEOPLE THAT GAVE YOU SCARAB AI (tm), WE BRING YOU REAVER AI! YOU THOUGHT IT WAS BAD ENOUGH THAT THE PROJECTILES WERE DUMB, HOW ABOUT MAKING THE SLOW-ASS SLUG OF A GUN SCREWY TOO!
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Just noticed this in a ladder game on Remastered.
When you start training a unit (let's say a HT) and during that training time the energy upgrade (Khaydarin Amulet) finishes, then the HT will spawn with only 50 energy, even though the energy upgrade finished before the HT. Every HT that starts training after the Khaydarin Amulet upgrade is finished will start with the correct amount of 62 energy.
My question is simply, is this a bug or is it intended?
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I am sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but I must have missed it, and it also deals with Remastered.
I could have sworn that in the past, if you send say 10 Vultures to lay a mine and only one of them has a mine, then they would all go to that location even if they do not have mines. But now, only the Vulture with the mine goes there. Am I going crazy?
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On September 21 2017 07:41 Jealous wrote:
I am sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but I must have missed it, and it also deals with Remastered.
I could have sworn that in the past, if you send say 10 Vultures to lay a mine and only one of them has a mine, then they would all go to that location even if they do not have mines. But now, only the Vulture with the mine goes there. Am I going crazy?
Nope, it's always been this way.
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On September 21 2017 09:25 Sero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2017 07:41 Jealous wrote:
I am sure this has been mentioned elsewhere but I must have missed it, and it also deals with Remastered.
I could have sworn that in the past, if you send say 10 Vultures to lay a mine and only one of them has a mine, then they would all go to that location even if they do not have mines. But now, only the Vulture with the mine goes there. Am I going crazy? Nope, it's always been this way.
Okay, thanks ^^ I guess I really was going crazy!
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Norway28712 Posts
On September 21 2017 05:16 OminouS wrote:
Just noticed this in a ladder game on Remastered.
When you start training a unit (let's say a HT) and during that training time the energy upgrade (Khaydarin Amulet) finishes, then the HT will spawn with only 50 energy, even though the energy upgrade finished before the HT. Every HT that starts training after the Khaydarin Amulet upgrade is finished will start with the correct amount of 62 energy.
My question is simply, is this a bug or is it intended?
I dunno whether it's a bug or intended, but it's always been like that, and it makes sense imo. like if you're a protoss enrolled in high templar training and they're building EXTRA ENERGY CAPACITY facilities while you're training, you don't actually get to go there until those facilities are done building, so you wouldn't benefit from them unless you started training when the facilities were already there. Technically maybe they should give like a % boost based on how much training they underwent after the facilities completed, but that sounds a little excessive.
For arbiters, this is actually kinda significant, in the sense that if you're conscious about it, you can boost the second arbiter you build's energy by like, 6 points. To do this, you first need to start the energy upgrade, and then you need to wait 5 seconds after the first arbiter finishes before you start building the new one. Assuming you start upgrading stasis right after the energy upgrade, and recall after stasis, it works out pretty damn perfectly, with stasis finishing when your first arbiter has 96 energy, and the recall finishing right when you get 150.
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EPT
