EPT[G] PvZ +1 Sair/Speedlot - Page 4
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
 as for replays.. I'll try looking for some lol, but my hands are a bit slow so I don't execute this build perfectly : P | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
If your opponent opens for fast hydra lurk, then you are dead but if he goes mutas, then you are in a good spot to win it right there. Use your zeals to distract the mutas away from your base and net as many drone kills as well as structure kills i.e. spire, hatchery. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On May 18 2011 14:22 JMave wrote: You should also add in the all-in variation of 4 gates where you delay the second and plant down all three once your stargate is approx mid-way. However, this is only strong on open maps where it is quite hard to have a completely tight simcity like Bloody Ridge, Python and Longinus. If your opponent opens for fast hydra lurk, then you are dead but if he goes mutas, then you are in a good spot to win it right there. Use your zeals to distract the mutas away from your base and net as many drone kills as well as structure kills i.e. spire, hatchery. I alluded to that variant in the sections pertaining to 3 Hatch Hydra and 4 Hatch No Gas, but I guess I should add that tidbit to the OP. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On May 19 2011 11:04 JMave wrote: I think going this against 4 hatch no gas is a bad idea since you will require storm asap. But I don't know. Is it in time before he masses hydras? It's not very good against 4 Hatch No Gas, I did say that you should get a fast Storm to deal with that strategy. However, should the Zerg try to drone hardcore and only make very few Hydras to pressure, you should be able to take out his paltry Hydra/Zergling force and possibly hit a good timing. But that's really a coinflip, so delaying Leg Speed in favor for a faster Archives/Storm is usually the better choice | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2355 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On May 19 2011 11:31 XenOsky- wrote: im having trouble using this vs zerg that play extremly defensive, once they deffend the 1st push usually hive is in the making, and is nearly impossible to take my 4th gas... When you see that kind of greedy fast tech play with a super fast fourth, the best option is to preserve your initial Zealots and take a third off 4 Gateways, and grabbing more bases quickly while harassing with elevator drops. Post troops around the expansions you are making, because if you don't you'll probably end up losing them to a bunch of Zerglings. The only way to be really sure if they are going for this kind of super greedy play is if they get 3+ sunkens/spore and go Muta. Refer to Bisu's recent games on Neo Aztec for this.. Should add this to the OP.. I'll do that soonish | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2355 Posts
On May 19 2011 11:37 ArvickHero wrote: When you see that kind of greedy fast tech play with a super fast fourth, the best option is to take a third off 4 Gateways, and grabbing more bases while harassing with elevator drops. Post troops around the expansions you are making, because if you don't you'll probably end up losing them to a bunch of Zerglings. The only way to be really sure if they are going for this kind of super greedy play is if they get 3+ sunkens/spore and go Muta. Refer to Bisu's recent games on Neo Aztec for this.. Should add this to the OP.. I'll do that soonish it was pretty much what i was thinking... but instead of multiple drops, i was making earlier reavers to break the sunken/spore line.. from now on, i will harass with this shuttles instead of trying to break with reavers, thanks for the advice. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On May 19 2011 11:41 XenOsky- wrote: it was pretty much what i was thinking... but instead of multiple drops, i was making earlier reavers to break the sunken/spore line.. from now on, i will harass with this shuttles instead of trying to break with reavers, thanks for the advice. The problem with getting Reavers to bust in response to turtle play is that it's pretty much all-in, since you have to either go for a strong economy to keep up with the Zerg, or commit to a bust (not both). If you're interested in busting the Zerg Splash-toss style with Reavers, open Sair-Reaver first and quickly add many gates+Templar tech for Storm. I think Stork vs Jaedong on Aztec is a good example of such an all-in. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
Depending on his lurker timing, you can probably even get a fourth and mass up a nice goon ht army that will be very hard to stop. Once you establish a 4 base gas, then going reavers becomes increasingly strong to break defenses, harass as well as for supporting your confrontations. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2355 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On May 19 2011 16:47 XenOsky- wrote: just watched a game of JaeHoon, where he gets arbiters, doesnt seems like a bad idea given the fact that the protoss already has stargate/archvies and a good amount of corsairs to protect the arbiter... a huge recall on his main is in theory viable... (against 4 gas fast hive). My theory with Arbiter play is that Protoss must plan well in advance to use it effectively, because the timing of a Recall would be most effective before or soon after Hive finishes, which then the effectiveness of a recall rapidly diminshes after that timing. So I'm thinking getting a Tribunal before or with a third would be the most effective way of doing it, along with researching Arbiter energy first and then Recall. There's also the other side of the Stargate tech tree, which is the Fleet Beacon. Players such as Kal and Violet (I think) were able to preserve their Corsairs well, and busted the Zerg Simcity/Lurker fields with Dragoons and DWeb. Just some things that show that PvZ still has room to grow strategically.. we may see these as semi-standard late-game strategies in the future ^^ | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2355 Posts
and happy birth day. | ||
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renzy
Canada781 Posts
Builds great simcity, uses mutalisks to hold off the initial zealot attack while grabbing a quick 4th, and then transitions back into mass hydralisks. Yes, zealot templars are good against mass hydralisks, but a 4 base 7/8 hatchery zerg pumping hydras is just overwhelming at times, and hydra production can begin fairly quickly after the 4th hatch is done, with around 10 drones mining minerals (you'll have lots of left over min from the initial muta/scourage). By the time the zerg attacks, its almost impossible to have a mixed army of goons, templars and zealots. Anyone know of any good counters to this? The one I use currently is just a fast third off of 4 gates and then making pure templar/zealots til my third gas comes online. That's around the time the hydras hit, and if I win that battle, then I'll most likely be able to make a protoss "deathball". If we end up trading armies, I'm usually on the backfoot. | ||
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Favorite
United States27 Posts
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Miwyfe
England101 Posts
I think at this stage you should start a new thread and post a replay. But heres some stuff anyway. 1. There is no counter. 2. 4 gates then 3rd nexus is not advised by me. 3. Dont look for a drastic change to standard. Simply delay your robotics a bit because you know that lurkers are delayed due to the fact he got mutas first. Furthermore, the op guide is really good: Buy 2 archons with your first 4 hts. Get a cannon at both mineral lines. Also, probably commit with your initial zealots, send 2 to the main to disrupt mining, use the rest to attack the nat. If you pull back with your zealots, they will just get attacked by the mutas anyway and then the mutas will be closer to your base after the zealots die so better to commit and keep the mutas at bay for as long as possible. At this point hopefully you have 6 gates recently completed. Look to take your 3rd nexus then get your robo. Next get obs and 8 gates. Then 4th nexus. Then 5th nexus. Mutas first means delayed hydras or lurkers. The robo timing I mention above should be good. Get 2 cannons at your third incase zerg goes muta then lurker directly without hydras inbetween and to help against lings. You could also throw in a storm drop (shuttle before observer). This is always viable but is especially powerful against what you outline. But yeah post a replay in a new thread if you want people to give you more meaningful advice, or get some guys to obs you in game. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
It appears that even though JD held Bisu off, he just kept attacking and attacking. Perhaps it was also due to the map and how easy it was for Bisu to hold a third. I think the key is to keep forcing him into making more mutalisks and to make a hydra transition unfavourable i.e. attacking before the hydras get mass. If you note that his natural gas timing is late, then even more pressure will force mutalisks because of the lack of gas to get lurkers fast in order to defend the attacks. | ||
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