(Z v P)How to deal with DT+coasir for zerg?

On October 17 2004 02:09 ZyMotiC wrote:
when they go sair/dt they always want to exp with the dt after they kill the lords near they're base, so what i always do is 3 hatch (i always go 2 hatch main -> speed lings -> exp) hydra and send all my lords towards his base with my hydra under them (of course leave 1/2 lords in ur base for dt there). He can't exp then with his dt, cuz you got hydra/lords there. Usually they have 1 gate if they do this, so often you can even break through they're defence and win the game quite fast

On October 17 2004 02:41 ret wrote:
those hydra strats will not kill a GOOD toss player performing this strat, best is to power hard with a spore colony and get lurker/spire/ol speed/then drop (all of it) , take ur natural , and then just do whatever is needed to kill him, go hive or take islands or macro, but fast hive is always nice with islands ( cracklings/ultra ) -,-; do mass crackling drops on his main and harass him etc etc, prevent him from taking other mains by having a group of lings patrol and targeting probes etc..typical zvp

On October 17 2004 02:41 ret wrote:
those hydra strats will not kill a GOOD toss player performing this strat, best is to power hard with a spore colony and get lurker/spire/ol speed/then drop (all of it) , take ur natural , and then just do whatever is needed to kill him, go hive or take islands or macro, but fast hive is always nice with islands ( cracklings/ultra ) -,-; do mass crackling drops on his main and harass him etc etc, prevent him from taking other mains by having a group of lings patrol and targeting probes etc..typical zvp

On October 17 2004 16:25 RuGbUg wrote:
are you kidding? a 3 hatch hydra who then later upgrades overlord speed will rape asshole of an early dt/sair. it may not kill them because they put a shitload of cannons but it sure as hell will halt them for the longest time

On October 17 2004 17:14 Hyuuga wrote:
Well, in general I think a protoss will only go DT/sair when they have gained atleast a gas expansion.
This should give you adequate time for researching overlord speed and both hydralisk upgrades. In my opinion 3 hatch hydra probably is the best strategy for dealing with this early game along with overlord speed. I think the most important thing in ZvP is always to keep them trapped. Don't give them any expansions easily. Once you secure a third gas, you can likely tech hive and with a Greater spire, get rid of those annoying corsairs with some devourers of your own.

On October 18 2004 03:12 SW)Surv wrote:
FA go 2 gate whatever position u are it wont hurt u that much.

On October 18 2004 05:34 PrinCe (H) wrote:
if a protoss uses 2 gates vs me I know the game is won.

1 gates makes me wanna rush to den and lair because I do not wish to die to some early core strats.

50% of my zvp games are vs Strafe(yeye brag brag but this might indicate the level of protoss), he still uses 2 gate but not as often as he used to do. Because the protoss always has to catch up on the zerg when his "rush" fails (90% of the time).

And saying it will stop me from making 10000 drones or 10 expands is bullshit. The only real way to hurt my eco is zealots + probes (at least 3). If you make a micromistake you lose your zealots and your probes which will hurt your eco/tech even more than a regular 2 gate build.

On October 18 2004 06:44 PrinCe (H) wrote:
I guess that is the difference between you and me. You try to join the best teams possible, you try to play best players possible and get as high as possible on wgtour.

I wasn't trying to brag about people I play, I was just pointing the way good protoss thinks.

You may think im average but thats only because you HATE being outplayed by a hacker who calls your mom a whore.

I don't want to prove myselfes (especially not for you rofl) as a good player, the people I play with know my level of play and is as far as Im concerned thats enough.

Though this is getting offtopic.

2 gate is safe and can bring a zerg user in trouble (9/10 + probes) but imo 1 gate gives you more gas and a better eco.

On October 18 2004 06:59 SW)Surv wrote:
you lack stability. What are you trying to accomplish by trash talking like this anyway. Im not going to get mad at you because you are incapable of producing decent behavior. It always gets off topic with you man ... You provoce and wait. Then you trash talk and provoce some more. Why are you posting about me anyway? I think its normal to get in good clans no? I dont understand why you are posting this kinda stuff. I am not going to feel offended or be ashamed or whatever. You are right about me trying to join good clans. I also succeeded in this. SW) is a good clan maybe when i get better i can join even better clans whats the bad thing about this? I know you would never talk like this if you would ever meet me on some lan or wcg or god knows what so im going to dodge this offer to a flame war. If you got something to say PM me dont fuck up peoples vieuw with your clueless pointless comments about the OH so inferior surv...

On October 17 2004 02:41 ret wrote:
those hydra strats will not kill a GOOD toss player performing this strat, best is to power hard with a spore colony and get lurker/spire/ol speed/then drop (all of it) , take ur natural , and then just do whatever is needed to kill him, go hive or take islands or macro, but fast hive is always nice with islands ( cracklings/ultra ) -,-; do mass crackling drops on his main and harass him etc etc, prevent him from taking other mains by having a group of lings patrol and targeting probes etc..typical zvp

On October 18 2004 06:06 ret wrote:
hm rugbug please notice i said GOOD protoss...^^;

On October 18 2004 04:55 FrozenArbiter wrote:

I almost always 2 gate, but if you are doing a dt sair build going 2 gate is not effecient.

On October 17 2004 16:25 RuGbUg wrote:
are you kidding? a 3 hatch hydra who then later upgrades overlord speed will rape asshole of an early dt/sair. it may not kill them because they put a shitload of cannons but it sure as hell will halt them for the longest time

On October 18 2004 19:15 maleorderbride wrote:


It can be efficient. This game is about more than the fastest way to whatever tech or units. Its all about misdirection and confusing the enemy.

I use a 9/11 gate fake rush rather often. I then get gas off 1 lot with none building or if the scouting drone leaves immeadiately then I get gas with NO lots. That two gate just totally payed for itself as the Z plumps down two sunkens and gets 10 lings.

Also, two gates gives you more flexibility. If a Z sees one gate, just like 1 fact in pvt, then the zerg/toss respecitvely have many many more viable options. 2 gate increases yours, and decreases theirs. It forces them to play safer. Sometimes, 2 gate can be bad, but thats map dependant or extremely situational depending on the Z BO.

On October 18 2004 20:38 Dave307 wrote:


yes until they switch and go templar/zealot while you have ling/hydra, which is nothx. a good toss player never goes sair/dt for long until he gets his exp, and imo thats what sair dt is for.

On October 18 2004 19:15 maleorderbride wrote:


It can be efficient. This game is about more than the fastest way to whatever tech or units. Its all about misdirection and confusing the enemy.

I use a 9/11 gate fake rush rather often. I then get gas off 1 lot with none building or if the scouting drone leaves immeadiately then I get gas with NO lots. That two gate just totally payed for itself as the Z plumps down two sunkens and gets 10 lings.

Also, two gates gives you more flexibility. If a Z sees one gate, just like 1 fact in pvt, then the zerg/toss respecitvely have many many more viable options. 2 gate increases yours, and decreases theirs. It forces them to play safer. Sometimes, 2 gate can be bad, but thats map dependant or extremely situational depending on the Z BO.

On October 22 2004 20:27 RuGbUg wrote:
and we all know how deadly one sair and one dt is, definitely worth the teching, gas, and wast- well use of time.

On October 18 2004 05:34 PrinCe (H) wrote:
if a protoss uses 2 gates vs me I know the game is won.

1 gates makes me wanna rush to den and lair because I do not wish to die to some early core strats.

50% of my zvp games are vs Strafe(yeye brag brag but this might indicate the level of protoss), he still uses 2 gate but not as often as he used to do. Because the protoss always has to catch up on the zerg when his "rush" fails (90% of the time).

And saying it will stop me from making 10000 drones or 10 expands is bullshit. The only real way to hurt my eco is zealots + probes (at least 3). If you make a micromistake you lose your zealots and your probes which will hurt your eco/tech even more than a regular 2 gate build.

On October 23 2004 19:34 kloownz wrote:
are hydras really worth it? Im honestly in conflict with going like, say Lurker/ling or muta/ling with just going hydras, i knpow their great in mass, but, unles yu've expoe'd like 2/3 of the map, its reall hard do win with

On October 23 2004 22:12 Dave307 wrote:


going pure hydra is retarded you absolutlely have to put some sort of unit with it, whether its ling lurker, or hell even muta(but that is a huge ass amount of gas/mineral) if you go pure hydra the toss will go zeal/HT and own you. Also you must take into consideration that without harass, your giving the toss whatever he wants because you can't just hrass with 4-8 hydra. Which means hydra sucks in low numbers. and thats why hydra are a bad harassing tool.

In result:

Good Zerg=Not pure hydra
Good Toss seeing pure hydra= mass ht/zeal

i can't agree with the thought that 1 gate is the only real viable opening in pvzs

On October 23 2004 17:32 rednob wrote:
Maybe Prince was referring to the level of Toss he plays compared to his level. I am sure that he is not talking about Reach's 2 gate but rather, other Toss. On Lost Temple perhaps, and I am only speculating here, that Prince is very confident against Toss who try to play him straight up with a 2 gate as they each are no Reach, and he is Zerg on Lost Temple. Would you buy that, FrozenArbiter?

On October 17 2004 02:41 ret wrote:
those hydra strats will not kill a GOOD toss player performing this strat, best is to power hard with a spore colony and get lurker/spire/ol speed/then drop (all of it) , take ur natural , and then just do whatever is needed to kill him, go hive or take islands or macro, but fast hive is always nice with islands ( cracklings/ultra ) -,-; do mass crackling drops on his main and harass him etc etc, prevent him from taking other mains by having a group of lings patrol and targeting probes etc..typical zvp