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Hi,
I'm a D+ protoss...have been playing starcraft for maybe 3-4 years now. One thing that has always bothered me in the last year is how to counter a two-gate PvP (particularly on python).
I do my usual pylon - gate - gas - zealot/pylon - core - zealot - goon/range and scout after gate. Most of the time I am unable to get into the guy's base due to bad luck, and cannot see his two gates. Then bamm...out of nowhere six zealots start marching towards my expansion while I have 2 zealots and 1-2 goons.
Can somebody tell me how to properly respond in this situation? I have tried:
1) Immediately put down a second gate
2) Pylon, forge and cannon near choke
3) Pylon and shield battery
No matter what I do, I just can't micro against the lots (not until range comes up by which I'm already dead most of the time). The opponent chases after my goons with some and kill probes with the others and I panic.
Should I cancel range? Should I take probes off gas? Also, if I have the 2 gate up, should I make goons or zealots? Should I try to hold him at choke (where he can attack me one zealot at a time and make use of of his healthy zealots) or invite him to a micro-dual inside my base? When holding at choke, should I bring 2-3 probes for range attack?
Thank you for your help on this.
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Definitely just put down a second gate and protect your choke. I'd do ZZcoreZ if you see a 2 gate go down, and have maybe 3-4 zealots before you start making goons(core should just finish by the time you have that many). Honestly, if they get past the choke, you're going to be in a pretty undesirable situation since they can go kill probes.
I sometimes have problems with 2 gate, but if you can hold the choke(hopefully a ramp), you should be able to survive.
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there are a few key things to be doing against a 2 gate.
firstly, you should get your second gateway only when you start your second zealot. getting the gate sooner if you had gone 1 gate tech will delay your second zealot, which is very crucial if he had gone 2 gate.
next, you need to be scouting his base consistently. since you got your gas earlier, your tech should be earlier than his. you need to take note his gas and core timing and also to see if he's making more zealots.
if he is making zealots non-stop, then you should not push out from your ramp and get around 5 or 7 zealots then get goons. i usually stop at 5 zealots if he spawns far away and squeeze out 2 goons. from the top or your ramp, you can actually position 4 zealots while he can only get 3 since the ramp gap from the upper middle toward to the top is smaller than the top. hence, you have superior position.
also if you see a forge going down for him, then its likely he will be expanding soon.
another reason why it is so important to scout is because if he went 2 gate, got around 3 zealots and got his gas and core, then you can push out at that point if you maintained constant unit production and end the game right there.
also vs a 2 gate, its very common for players to get supply blocked because of the amount of things you need to do. it is also game changing because you really need every single fighting unit. don't get supply block and keep the probe production up.
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actually, it would be good if you posted a rep. him being able to get up your ramp with his goons is something quite odd to me.
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On January 06 2011 15:37 Jubinell wrote:
Most of the time I am unable to get into the guy's base due to bad luck, and cannot see his two gates. Then bamm...out of nowhere six zealots start marching towards my expansion while I have 2 zealots and 1-2 goons.
This should never ever ever ever happen
Even if you can't get into the main you can peek at his unit count... you'll see the lack of a dragoon (or additional zealots, if he chooses not to hide his extra zealots, and since this is D/D+ play he may NOT choose to hide his extra zealots) and know at that point it is 2gate and you can respond accordingly.
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Assuming he hid it well and you couldn't scout, put down a 2nd gate, take maybe 2 probes off gas( leave one) and you need a shield battery.
Keep your zealots on your ramp and put 3 probes behind them, they deal alot of dmg, then you can choose to make zlots from your 2gates once they are up, with shield batt you should hold (keep your 1-2 goons alive and behind your zealots) pull more probes accordingly.
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Scout after the pylon on python.
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On January 06 2011 19:23 sashkata wrote:
Scout after the pylon on D level.
Fixed that for you.....
Sooooo many D players like to 2gate...
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Like the people said above, scout after the pylon especially if it's a bigger map. I just finished a PvP on FS and the guy started with a two gate. I scouted after the pylon and managed to see the second gate while it was being warped in. I was doing a one gate core.
What I did was I ended up canceling my core (since it was still being warped in) so that I could start a zealot right away and put down a second gate. I think after 3 zealots on my ramp, I started the core again. This might not necessarily be the right thing to do but it saved me and I was still ahead in tech for a short time.
It'll probably come down to matching unit count, getting ahead in tech, and a little bit of luck. Hoped this helped.
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Thinking that stuff happens by luck is keeping you in D for three years.
Practice partners can help a lot - grab somebody and ask them to rush you multiple times.
I could oblige in a couple of weeks, being a n00b Protoss myself.
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EPT
