EPTMin only expos good for zerg?
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t3h.sWaRm
United States202 Posts
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Vharox
United States1037 Posts
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vGl-CoW
Belgium8305 Posts
P or T on the other hand usually get their expo way later than you and when they do, they don't have the advantage of a second gas, which they need pretty badly for their fancy tech units. :O This can mean that early game is a little harder for you because you can't use as much lair units but you'll have it way easier afterwards, when you're controlling multiple gasses and they have to get by on just one. That's also why ZvP is pretty imbalanced on Nostalgia, you don't really need all that much lair units in the beginning. :O | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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pheered.user
United States2603 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
edit: this is for pvz | ||
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FrEaK[S.sIR]
2373 Posts
We're talking about the PvZ imbalance on no gas nat maps jackass. | ||
Arbiter[frolix]
United Kingdom2674 Posts
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
The thing I like about mineral only nats is that terrans cant go that stupid 2 fact tank build. Just get around 10-12 tanks and its nearly impossible for zerg unless he has double the amount of lurkers. | ||
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gabe.
50 Posts
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t3h.sWaRm
United States202 Posts
can a zerg with only 1 gas go mutas tho? i usually go 3 hatch mutas and usually have about 900 gas to get 9 mutas when the spire is done, but i think i use my expo gas (i cant remember). | ||
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mmm.beer
Canada412 Posts
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mmm.beer
Canada412 Posts
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t3h.sWaRm
United States202 Posts
off topic: i want to upgrade my darn drone  | ||
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mmm.beer
Canada412 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Ive seen the pros use it sometimes. Like Yellow on Plains to hill, but its easy to secure expoes on that map. | ||
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t3h.sWaRm
United States202 Posts
i love mutas b/c they harrass an unsespecting opponent ^^ so i guess it is possible to get 6 mutas right when spire is done and not get an upg. then ill switch to lurk/ling b/c i dont have enough gas for enough mutas to b effective against anything. | ||
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MadduX
United States515 Posts
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t3h.sWaRm
United States202 Posts
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pheered.user
United States2603 Posts
On July 25 2004 18:53 Element)FrEaK wrote: Protoss doesn't need alot of gas for any matchups but pvz......*blinks*. We're talking about the PvZ imbalance on no gas nat maps jackass. Rofl please tell me where anyone said anything about thi | ||
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Muhweli
Finland5328 Posts
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
On July 25 2004 19:03 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: When I play protoss v zerg I am always struggling for gas for templar tech etc. Mineral only expansion is a problem for protoss I think. against zerg, yes against terran, it's an advantage for protoss no gas @ natural stimulates the ancient circle of ownage: Z > P, T > Z, P > T | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On July 26 2004 02:30 GroT wrote: against zerg, yes against terran, it's an advantage for protoss no gas @ natural stimulates the ancient circle of ownage: Z > P, T > Z, P > T agreed ~! | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On July 26 2004 02:30 GroT wrote: isn't it Z = T on nostalgia? if the zerg secures a 3rd base, almost always the zerg winsagainst zerg, yes against terran, it's an advantage for protoss no gas @ natural stimulates the ancient circle of ownage: Z > P, T > Z, P > T | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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gabe.
50 Posts
On July 26 2004 02:01 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote: zvt its easier for zerg since terran cant get alot of tanks having to use most of the gas for vessels/medics/upgrades so lurkers get alot stronger that way so even thougt u'll have less lurks early on they'll be more powerfull..in zvp u can lurk/ling contain wich will be very hard for toss with 1 gas to break out from but in zvp u also have good options like 3 hat hydra or 1 base muta..1 base muta the toss will often not suspect and those it can be powerfull despait having low muta numbers...also zerglings in zvp gets very strong since toss got low gas for archons... its easier for terran. on LT, 1 base T = 2 base Z. if you take away a gas from the zerg, t will have advantage. | ||
Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4532 Posts
On July 26 2004 02:01 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote: zvt its easier for zerg since terran cant get alot of tanks having to use most of the gas for vessels/medics/upgrades so lurkers get alot stronger that way so even thougt u'll have less lurks early on they'll be more powerfull..in zvp u can lurk/ling contain wich will be very hard for toss with 1 gas to break out from but in zvp u also have good options like 3 hat hydra or 1 base muta..1 base muta the toss will often not suspect and those it can be powerfull despait having low muta numbers...also zerglings in zvp gets very strong since toss got low gas for archons... some1 like nada can kill 4 lurkers with 14 marines 3 medics... so no that's not completly true --a | ||
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tomson
Poland641 Posts
Therefore a mineral-only expansion, apart from diminishing economical differences between a Terran who can simultaneously build workers and troops and a Zerg who can only make one at a time, mainly creates grounds for gas expansions. | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On July 25 2004 22:00 PheeRed.User wrote: Rofl please tell me where anyone said anything about thi pheered, you said "protoss doesn't need a lot of gas for any matchup than [sic] pvz" and thus freak responded by saying that this thread is precisely about pvz imbalance with mineral only naturals, so i don't see why you are rofl other than at your own inability to read the thread correctly | ||
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Famouzze
971 Posts
but in pvt i'd rather not have a gas nat. terran needs gas a lot worse than toss in that situation i'd say, for tanks. | ||
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KillerPenguin
United States516 Posts
agreed | ||
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XvObiVx
United States21 Posts
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
You could even do hydra's when you have proper micro vs terrans first, take gas exp and add lurker later. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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Dang:)
United States423 Posts
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
1) you can't play mineral only nats like you can LT. FAR TOO MANY players have played so much LT that, when faced with another map, they try to make their LT strategies work on those maps. So the first step is to try to change your playing style completely for different maps. It is my firm beleif that, if you know how to play a different kind of map correctly, it can be a very balanced game 2) i think a map like nostalgia has more of a time based advantage. For example, in an early game TvZ, the terran has the advantage (assuming he has good micro) with a strong medic marine contain. The zerg is limited to 1 gas for lurkers, which the terran can micro against. Although the terran will eventually have to run away, the delay allows the terran to get up his own expo and a few tanks etc. Once the zerg breaks his front and gets more geysers, then the zerg gets back to even ground. They key at this point is for the terran to use his early game advantage to keep the game even. Its far too easy for the terran to just let the zerg expo across the whole map to where its 4 geysers vs 1 geyser. I recommend the sync vs siva game on nostalgia. Kinda shows how the balance changes from early game (sync uses M&M to cover middle of map) to middle and late game (siva trying to expand to many gas naturals and sync continuing to kill them off) yea ~ | ||
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4532 Posts
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NonYold
United States2814 Posts
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4.Aiur
United States995 Posts
On July 26 2004 13:58 NonY wrote: IN REACH WE TRUST!there's only one answer to PvZ on nostalgia.. wwrd? let's wait and see what Reach does vs julyzerg when everything is on the line and he's had time to practice :O | ||
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t3h.sWaRm
United States202 Posts
On July 26 2004 14:12 4.Aiur wrote: IN REACH WE TRUST! gogo july :p so its better for Z in zvp but its kinda better for t in zvt? | ||
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TanGo
Sweden1019 Posts
On July 25 2004 18:49 PheeRed.User wrote: ? Protoss definitely beneifts the most from min only maybe not in early parts of game but protoss really doesent need alot of gas for any matchup than pvz and zeals are your main unit in pvz Even if I play T I know that is wrong, you need storm in PvZ it is a must!!! You can noway play a long PvZ without the use of storm. And now you say "Overun the zerg with zlots" well that wont work since hes making lurkers and expoing. Or are you gonna get zlot speed and then observer? Well, then he has the map already :p | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On July 27 2004 10:33 t3h.sWaRm wrote: gogo july :p so its better for Z in zvp but its kinda better for t in zvt? It all depends on style and adaptation abilities. Nostalgia is my favourite map  | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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