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Practicing against the computer?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Thehummel
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark122 Posts
August 16 2010 00:54 GMT
#1
I have just started interstering me for BW. Looking alot of guides, replays and all that such up. But for the moment, i dont have the option to play on ICCup or any other platforms, for quite some time. So i'm stuck with replays and the computer. So my question to you guys is. Is it viable to practice against the computer?
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
August 16 2010 00:57 GMT
#2
Only for doing build orders, playing a full game against the computer is not really worth it. Unless you really want to fight 1 base lurker turtle ZvZ. =P
micro7295
Profile Joined August 2010
United States68 Posts
August 16 2010 01:17 GMT
#3
lmfaooo lemme tell u, computers arent the greatest opponents u can face. for 1 thing theyre not human and so dont improvise very well. they also do little to no scouting. only for expansions. they also dont usually mass units unless theyve already been attacked. they also build multiple defenses that they dont need at all (or wont be helping them much ) for some odd reason. its all too easy to 1v1 a cpu and mass like 1-2 groups of units and extra units like overlords/vessel/observers/scvs and crush them perfectly fine. they can have like 4 bases and u can live off like 2 of em.

but they ARE nice for practicing build orders. this is true also i suppose theyll help u train ur micro and get u used to effective base management and layout. after a point, its time to go 2 multiplayer cuz u wont improve much
an ultralisk, an ultralisk, my hive for an ultralisk
HickleStine
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia276 Posts
August 16 2010 01:25 GMT
#4
Yeah practising build orders against the computer is about as far as you can go, but it's really really useful when you're learning your initial build order to get it down absolutely perfect against the computer before taking it on iccup.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
August 16 2010 01:35 GMT
#5
On August 16 2010 10:17 micro7295 wrote:
lmfaooo lemme tell u, computers arent the greatest opponents u can face. for 1 thing theyre not human and so dont improvise very well. they also do little to no scouting. only for expansions. they also dont usually mass units unless theyve already been attacked. they also build multiple defenses that they dont need at all (or wont be helping them much ) for some odd reason. its all too easy to 1v1 a cpu and mass like 1-2 groups of units and extra units like overlords/vessel/observers/scvs and crush them perfectly fine. they can have like 4 bases and u can live off like 2 of em.

but they ARE nice for practicing build orders. this is true also i suppose theyll help u train ur micro and get u used to effective base management and layout. after a point, its time to go 2 multiplayer cuz u wont improve much


Pretty much what this guy said. For an actual game? No, computers are absolutely terrible. they are nice for practicing timing pushes and build orders on though
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
trackd00r
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Chile284 Posts
August 16 2010 01:39 GMT
#6
If you want to practice build orders, they are good
But for testing strategies, micro and everything over 7 minutes of games is not
There is some stuff you can try while playing vs the computer. In my case, I try to be maxed ASAP w/o being supply blocked. When you get to a more advanced level you can do more complex and micro intensive stuff, like testing your drops, cloning, etc.

By the way, If you are just starting to play in competitive level, practice your split against the computer. Do it for 1 hour or 2 for a few days. It's really worth it if you want to get your BO timings right later in your play.

In conclusion, build orders and macro are fine to practice against the PC. For anything else, stick to multiplayer
''They put signs, but I can't read''
dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
August 16 2010 03:38 GMT
#7
Don't listen to this guys. :p Playing against computer isn't all that bad.
Try this: 1v3 or to get max kick 1v7 in BGH. It's extremely fun and there many things you
could practice that you could take with you on a 1v1 against humans. for example:

1. perfecting your BO (as they all chorus)
2. macro: imagine wave after wave of zealots, goons, and lings, hydras, MM knocking constantly at your entry in BGH. unless you tank turtle (T) or do something every defensive (spam canons/sunk/spore), this is a great way to really mind your production and learn the trick of keeping your mines low. In my case, this is how i learned to increase my APM. But to be realistic, try 2v1 or 3v1. It`s beatable and you practice many aspects of your game.
3. strategy specific micro: if you want to learn vult harass, dark swarm position, storms, shuttle reaver micro, this is your starting point.

Just remember these thing about computer AI:
1. they don't or rarely do defense
2. they don't do army micro
3. they don't care about the right army composition
4. they don't care about your BO or strategy, they have their own and go for it
5. they don't scout (which explains #4)
5. once you get to their expo it's pretty much GG

Tho i wonder, if you have time to watch replays and play against computer, why not play in iCCup instead? Nothing beats the real experience
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
August 16 2010 03:39 GMT
#8
Yeah it'll teach you to play against 1 base cheese.
정명훈 FIGHTING!!! Play both T and P.
Thehummel
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark122 Posts
August 16 2010 04:41 GMT
#9
I would love to play against other people at iccup or any other platforms. But i just cant for the moment. Since i'm fairly new, could anyone explain build orders, and how you read them. Because when i see a build order, it's like

7- Barrack
8 - Supply

And so on, and i have tried to figure it or, but dont get it at all.

Thanks would be apperticated
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
August 16 2010 04:45 GMT
#10
On August 16 2010 12:39 TriniMasta wrote:
Yeah it'll teach you to play against 1 base cheese.


yes, but extremely late cheese
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Magus
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada450 Posts
August 16 2010 04:54 GMT
#11
On August 16 2010 13:41 Thehummel wrote:
I would love to play against other people at iccup or any other platforms. But i just cant for the moment. Since i'm fairly new, could anyone explain build orders, and how you read them. Because when i see a build order, it's like

7- Barrack
8 - Supply

And so on, and i have tried to figure it or, but dont get it at all.

Thanks would be apperticated

The number on the left is your supply count, the number on the right is your maximum supply count at that time. (If it only shows one like that, it's current supply, not maximum supply).

It's basically exactly what you see in the top right corner of the screen in game.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
August 16 2010 05:29 GMT
#12
It's good for BO's and maybe for some multitasking practice. But they see your base and tech, which is meh.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
August 16 2010 06:17 GMT
#13
LOL.
is this guy serious. man if you mean you're just starting BW and want to be familiar, go to
tlpd or anywhere in the net for strat guide, look for BOs and stuff, practice with computer,
then post here again to tell us about it or specific question regarding your games
1 base chees is a good way to start tho :D
MorningMusume11
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3490 Posts
August 16 2010 06:19 GMT
#14
If you're at least D you could try the stuff that's listed in this link

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80272

mmp
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2130 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 06:58:46
August 16 2010 06:58 GMT
#15
If you're learning Terran, it's helpful to put on 2 or 3 comps, practice a FE build, and then try to survive the rush with bunkers, sim-city, and SCV micro (depending on the map, the Protoss computer will always make a ~5-6min attack, the Zerg usually waits longer and attacks with hydras and lurkers). Otherwise, they're pretty useless.
I (λ (foo) (and (<3 foo) ( T_T foo) (RAGE foo) )) Starcraft
Frigo
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary1023 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 07:53:31
August 16 2010 07:52 GMT
#16
Playing against computers isn't really useful for real life 1v1 practice. Only for massing.
Anyway, try 1v1 BWAI, until you can win every single match, then switch to 1v2.
http://www.fimfiction.net/user/Treasure_Chest
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
August 16 2010 07:56 GMT
#17
Zerg computer would always 4 or 5 pool me if I played Terran, so I guess they're good for learning to defend cheeses. Otherwise don't bother lol.. it's better just to practice against nothing if you're practicing a build order, since computers do stupid cheeses that will require you to alter your build. Playing against multiple computers is good for improving your mechanics I guess but it won't do much good for you sense-wise. Just focus on strengthening your mechanics and get comfortable w/ using the hotkeys and multiple control groups. Learn to use the shift keys, alt key, f keys, learn the micro tricks like moving drop, Vulture Patrol, Reaver micro, etc.

Not being able to play another human is really tough though, not even Hamachi works?
Writerptrk
MusicalPulse
Profile Joined July 2010
United States162 Posts
August 17 2010 05:25 GMT
#18
On August 16 2010 15:19 MorningMusume11 wrote:
If you're at least D you could try the stuff that's listed in this link

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80272



I was going to say this too. Use BroodWarAi, it's a much harder version(s) of the BW Ai. You can choose what the Ai does, like turtle, cheese, aggressive, etc. There are also harder versions, and cheating versions, where they get money. The "normal" version is already pretty hard for D, they are about the same lv of ppl on ICCup. I suggest you download this and play against the "Ashara" Ai.

Broodwarai.com
Download link is on right, brood war ai launcher.
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
August 17 2010 05:50 GMT
#19
Crushing the campaign is always a good time. Try playing through the veteran one
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Cr4zyH0r5e
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Peru1308 Posts
August 17 2010 06:14 GMT
#20
as a T I only consider practicing BO when I play vs a zerg computer, otherwise I start a game with the computer and close it on the countdown. I don't really see the point of microing 1 vulture to win when you bunker expand vs a 6 min. 12 zealot rush... I guess it would help you improve your multitasking if you're planning on keeping up with perfect macro + 1 vulture taking down 12 zealots
Diamond 4 Jungle/Support - http://www.twitch.tv/cr4zyh0r5e/c/3051057 Zyra support 101
darklordjac
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2231 Posts
August 17 2010 06:31 GMT
#21
I just use the computer for bo, testing out control groups or if I haven't played bw in a while or are using some new equipment I'll play a couple games to get used to it.
DorF
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden961 Posts
August 17 2010 13:26 GMT
#22
for learning your initial build and getting the basic mechanichs down it's very good, so I can recommend it as long as you don't have acces to Iccup or anything else :p
BW for life !
Firien
Profile Joined April 2010
Poland115 Posts
August 17 2010 16:36 GMT
#23
i always play vs computer before i play on iccup. Nice way to boost your confidence, just play a standard 3 hatch muta/whatever and do it as fast as possible and then see the replay and compare it with some other replays from repdepot on about your apm/rank level, and see if you are really that terribad. I always find it easier to start laddering after i do this ; d
micro7295
Profile Joined August 2010
United States68 Posts
August 17 2010 19:41 GMT
#24
terribad lulz i gotta start saying that
an ultralisk, an ultralisk, my hive for an ultralisk
gamecrazy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States421 Posts
August 17 2010 23:00 GMT
#25
If you really can't get online and play people, I'd say the best thing you can do for your game is to just practice your build order in an empty game. Just use the LAN feature and take out the computer opponent during the countdown. That way, you can practice your build order without a flood of zealots attacking you at a totally inopportune moment. You do have to account for your own units dying in battle such as killing your own scout after a given amount of time if you want to be as realistic as possible.

Also, 1v3's and may also put enough pressure on you to really get you to practice your macro. Either way though, computers are not as good as human opponents esp. because their play is nonstandard and their macro nonexistent.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
August 18 2010 01:49 GMT
#26
Why can't you play online if you can post on TL? :x
Thehummel
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark122 Posts
August 22 2010 07:48 GMT
#27
The reason for me being in Australia for the moment, is because of my school. And the only time i got a internet connection is at the school. And it's really shitty.

But thanks for all the replies. I will give the BWAI a try
hellbound
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2242 Posts
August 22 2010 12:18 GMT
#28
I play Z and I practice against the computer sometimes. T computer does that late (after mutas hatch in 3hat muta) mmf push you can practice flanking while harassing with mutas. An P does that million slowlot thing. I like double expanding and defending it with minimal units and sim city. So I find the computer useful for practice but the trick is not to get used to its shitty timings because people will stomp you with proper ones if you do.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 14:17:15
August 22 2010 14:15 GMT
#29
there was that one guy who practiced against AI because he didn't have internet at home or something. then he played boxer.

i think his name was blackman or something...
yes it was.


edit: well it sounds like he made his own ai. i dont know of any that actually function even half decently. entropy is easy, and that EISBot or w/e thats out requires two computers, and functions at a low D level.
boomer hands
Frigo
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary1023 Posts
August 22 2010 15:12 GMT
#30
How did he end up playing vs Boxer anyway?
http://www.fimfiction.net/user/Treasure_Chest
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
August 22 2010 15:12 GMT
#31
On August 22 2010 23:15 seRapH wrote:
there was that one guy who practiced against AI because he didn't have internet at home or something. then he played boxer.

i think his name was blackman or something...
yes it was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNi_vPFYjfQ

edit: well it sounds like he made his own ai. i dont know of any that actually function even half decently. entropy is easy, and that EISBot or w/e thats out requires two computers, and functions at a low D level.

I've heard that he never really did and it just turned out to be a rumor.

But if you want to play against computers, either do 1v7 to work on macro, or do no computers (remove computer during countdown) to practice builds
jackofclubs81
Profile Joined January 2010
United States196 Posts
August 22 2010 18:24 GMT
#32
Computers are perfect if you need a self-esteem boost
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
August 23 2010 01:23 GMT
#33
On August 23 2010 00:12 Frigo wrote:
How did he end up playing vs Boxer anyway?

WCG.
boomer hands
sushi.oi.zz
Profile Joined December 2009
Hong Kong72 Posts
August 23 2010 10:44 GMT
#34
i think one of the better things that you can practice doing is playing against zerg opponents as terran. I found that very helpful, as you learn the basics of marine medic lurker dodge, and believe me, no matter what, the computer makes lurkers for some odd reason or another.
~O_o
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7909 Posts
August 23 2010 13:13 GMT
#35
I agree 100%
practice vs computer different build orders and timings
after that go on iccup (or bnet) and start playing against humans
with every lose you will improve !
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
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