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Freezard
Sweden1026 Posts
And those valks, my friends, where no normal valks -- his micro was f*ing jawdropping. I've never seen anything like it during my 5 years of watching progaming. Basically when in range of the mutas, the valks fired off their volley of missiles while at the same time flying backwards. There was no way Jaedong could kill them, cus the valks retreated back to the M&M force while shooting. So my question is... HOW THE HELL DID HE DO THIS? | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
Iirc you have to patrol towards the mutas when they are in range, then quickly move the valkyries away. I'm not sure what good switching out of mech would do though. Goliath are already pretty good against mutalisk, and the added valks will help fight them and defend your base, why would you give up your tank critical mass to switch out? edit: I recalled incorrectly, check the article out here and look under valkyrie micro; http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Valkyrie double edit: the trick needs some practice to do, even flash has made mistakes with his valkyrie micro. | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
On July 09 2010 04:02 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Read liquipedia article on valks Iirc you have to patrol towards the mutas when they are in range, then quickly move the valkyries away. edit: I recalled incorrectly, check the article out here and look under valkyrie micro; http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Valkyrie double edit: the trick needs some practice to do, even flash has made mistakes with his valkyrie micro. Don't you patrol just behind the valk while facing the target, then move away? I never really mastered this trick. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1026 Posts
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Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
The only downside is that you will completely lose control of the valkyrie until the firing is complete (you cannot interrupt the animation with stop / hold / attack). Once all 8 missiles are out you will regain control. It's all on the liquipedia page though. | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
On July 09 2010 04:12 Freezard wrote: I just watched the Fantasy vs Type-b game and indeed Fantasy does the trick a shitload of times, problem is he never succeeded in any of them, his valks just dances around. Ssak pulls the trick of every time so I thought there was a new, better way of doing it but I guess not. Yeah that was the main difference i noticed too lol. It seems like sSak has some real promise.... If he was on a team in the lower standings we would probably see him play all the time, like Action or something. But Skt1 actually has a dependable lineup lol. Maybe in the finals, expect a snipe. | ||
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
fantasy type b it does this wayy better | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Freezard
Sweden1026 Posts
On July 09 2010 05:53 koreasilver wrote: Fantasy has shown this first last year when he was doing valkyrie builds a lot. FE with academy doesn't trick a Zerg into going hydralurk either. I'm not sure why you would think that because it just doesn't make any sense. Seeing an academy would make the Zerg assume the Terran is just going standard bio, and would make the Zerg just use the standard ZvT bio unit composition of mutalisks, lurkers, and lings. Yea and that's what Jaedong thought, a bio build when it was mech. No one goes lurker vs mech but he got tricked into doing it. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On July 09 2010 05:42 FlameSworD wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivK2nrts0M fantasy type b it does this wayy better I dunno, it looked pretty sloppy during muta harass | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1026 Posts
On July 09 2010 06:19 koreasilver wrote: No, you said the academy tricked Jaedong into going hydralurk, which doesn't make any sense to begin with and Jaedong didn't even go hydralurk until much much later. And as it was, the lurkers were fine as Ssak's army was predominantly standard except for the small number of vultures there were insignificant compared to the presence of the marines and tanks. Lurkers are still good against biomech unit compositions anyway, which was exactly what Ssak was doing for the entirety of the game. Lurkers are good as long as bio units have a significant presence in a force. Yea well maybe it wasn't that good strategy, but I still haven't seen anything like it. He changed units all the time and in the end he used everything at the same time except maybe goliaths, was pretty sick. Anyway the point is that no one has ever done such good valk micro... and dude whoever posted that Fantasy - type b video -- did you even watch Ssak vs Jaedong? Fantasy had like 20 attempts at doing the valk trick and he failed everyone of them except maybe one, I didn't see it working even once and I watch the whole game. Then go watch Ssak and you'll see he didn't have nearly as many attempts cus Jaedong has a lot better muta/scourge micro but still succeeded fuking every time. | ||
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
On July 09 2010 06:34 evanthebouncy! wrote: I dunno, it looked pretty sloppy during muta harass what muta harass xD | ||
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MageKirby
United States535 Posts
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ImaginationStation
Korea (South)25 Posts
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
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KP_CollectoR
United States744 Posts
All the credit (and even the micro, which Ssak probably learned from Fantasy) goes to Fantasy, which in turn goes to Boxer/iloveoov (whichever one of those two made the Fantasy build). it was oov | ||
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doktorLucifer
United States855 Posts
I think I only remember this because it was the first tournament I saw, and actually the first time I saw progaming, so I just remember a bunch of random player's from GomS2. ;o | ||
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GhoSt[shield]
Canada2131 Posts
On July 09 2010 10:17 ImaginationStation wrote: Fantasy said in his interview that he'd help Ssak out so that he could beat Jaedong. All the credit (and even the micro, which Ssak probably learned from Fantasy) goes to Fantasy, which in turn goes to Boxer/iloveoov (whichever one of those two made the Fantasy build). Basically, the SKT terrans after Boxer and iloveoov are worthless leechers. Every single day for the past several years FanTaSy and Ssak devote their entire energies towards living up to their bonjwa mentors. If "leeching" means going to 2 consecutive OSL Finals, Winning Proleague MVP and ranking #3 in ELO (#2 Terran); Where do I sign up? | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
oov has been using valks since he started being a progamer (admittedly this is 2-fact valk, just showing that valks have been around much longer than the fantasy build) | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On July 09 2010 05:42 FlameSworD wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivK2nrts0M fantasy type b it does this wayy better Micro was sloppy. He lost his first Valk ASAP. | ||
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miky_ardiente
Mexico387 Posts
On July 09 2010 06:52 Freezard wrote: Yea well maybe it wasn't that good strategy, but I still haven't seen anything like it. He changed units all the time and in the end he used everything at the same time except maybe goliaths, was pretty sick. Anyway the point is that no one has ever done such good valk micro... and dude whoever posted that Fantasy - type b video -- did you even watch Ssak vs Jaedong? Fantasy had like 20 attempts at doing the valk trick and he failed everyone of them except maybe one, I didn't see it working even once and I watch the whole game. Then go watch Ssak and you'll see he didn't have nearly as many attempts cus Jaedong has a lot better muta/scourge micro but still succeeded fuking every time. i have watch jd vs Ssak and dude come on, you are totaly overreacting to that valkyrie micro u say u know how many times he did it ? once, just once and one of the two valks he had died to an scourge, so i really hope u are not trying to imply that Ssak is better at micro than fantasy cuz we all know who the better player is, and also 5 years of watching progamming and u are impressed by a valky that fired while going backwards and died, sure valk micro is hard but it was completely irrelevant during the game since jd won anyway, u should go watch some pimpest plays videos so u see real sick plays | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On July 09 2010 06:52 Freezard wrote: Yea well maybe it wasn't that good strategy, but I still haven't seen anything like it. He changed units all the time and in the end he used everything at the same time except maybe goliaths, was pretty sick. You know like half the terrans now do this right....... | ||
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ImaginationStation
Korea (South)25 Posts
On July 09 2010 12:30 GhoSt[shield] wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 09 2010 10:17 ImaginationStation wrote: Fantasy said in his interview that he'd help Ssak out so that he could beat Jaedong. All the credit (and even the micro, which Ssak probably learned from Fantasy) goes to Fantasy, which in turn goes to Boxer/iloveoov (whichever one of those two made the Fantasy build). Basically, the SKT terrans after Boxer and iloveoov are worthless leechers. Every single day for the past several years FanTaSy and Ssak devote their entire energies towards living up to their bonjwa mentors. If "leeching" means going to 2 consecutive OSL Finals, Winning Proleague MVP and ranking #3 in ELO (#2 Terran); Where do I sign up? You make far too many assumptions. "Every single day for the past several years" and "devote their entire energies" are the problem. There are programers that work hard, and of course all of them have rigorous practice schedules. But not all of them work as hard as Flash, Jaedong, hell, even Action (the guy that says he gets like 3 hours of sleep because he's always practicing). In fact, I think the fact that Ssak sucks and Fantasy hasn't pulled out a starleague win is indicative of the fact that the two aren't as hardworking as their bonjwa mentors. They have a great opportunity ahead of them with their coaching staff, but there is a point where you have to innovate on your own. iloveoov was Boxer's pupil, but while Boxer was known for his creativity and micro, iloveoov became known for his macro. iloveoov knew it would be hard to match or surpass Boxer in his strengths, so he found his own. A lot of people win proleague MVP... if Fantasy had won multiple times, then maybe he would be considered above A-class. Also, people slump. Of course Fantasy reached #3 ELO at one point... it's not like he's a bad player, it's just that he shocked everyone with his super awesome copied build against GGPlay, and then did well the next OSL, and that's it. He hasn't really had a period of dominance comparable to Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, or even Stork. Sign up if you want, but worthless leechers are just what they sound like; they're not the ones that win starleagues unless they make better use of their good circumstances and work hard enough on their own. It's hard to be on the top when everyone else is working just as hard, so you have to put in even more effort. Fantasy, Jangbi, and all those others who get silvers will be vague memories years from now compared to the league winners. EDIT: I'm not gonna talk about this anymore. We're getting off-topic to the OP. All I really wanted to do was clarify to the OP that it wasn't Ssak who innovated the build with the valkyrie or the micro associated with it. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
On July 09 2010 03:18 Freezard wrote: So in game 1 Ssak used the most baller strategy I've ever seen which included FE with academy to trick his opponent into going hydra/lurk when he's in fact going mines + tank and later switching to M&M + valks. And those valks, my friends, where no normal valks -- his micro was f*ing jawdropping. I've never seen anything like it during my 5 years of watching progaming. Basically when in range of the mutas, the valks fired off their volley of missiles while at the same time flying backwards. There was no way Jaedong could kill them, cus the valks retreated back to the M&M force while shooting. So my question is... HOW THE HELL DID HE DO THIS? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKpulLfmuB8 have you never watched fantasy play, he does it plenty it's pretty difficult to get consistently though | ||
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drdolitle
10 Posts
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Armathai
1023 Posts
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