WCS[Q]4 fac push and 6 fac push BO TvP?
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Omgoodnessess
United States61 Posts
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ahleezay
43 Posts
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=32135 | ||
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Necosarius
Sweden4041 Posts
FD opening 9 supply 11 rax/gas 14 depot 15 fact, scvs off gas 20 cc, scvs back to gas make 5 marines, one tank and one vult, research mines 34 (i think) ebay 38 depot 38 fact 40 fact 44 fact 46 supply | ||
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Omgoodnessess
United States61 Posts
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KP_CollectoR
United States744 Posts
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Omgoodnessess
United States61 Posts
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Necosarius
Sweden4041 Posts
Edit: If you want constant marine production you will have to make a supply at 20 and you CC will be at 29 or 31, can't remember right now, and I think you factories will come out later if you don't cut scvs. Can't say for sure tho  | ||
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KP_CollectoR
United States744 Posts
On February 27 2010 04:56 Omgoodnessess wrote: I want a standard 4 fac and 6 fac BO lol do you want to have one machine shop pumping tanks or two? edit - also, have you tried going through pro replays to find this yourself? | ||
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ZeKk
Sweden320 Posts
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JBass
7 Posts
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Highgamer
829 Posts
I knew I had seen that nice 6-fact-guide with pictures years ago, took me a while to find it. You're welcome. edit: That thread definitely should have a "[G]" in the title - and a different title (because it doesn't mention the 6fact) A few people go craaaazy in-depth about TvP-timing-pushes on page2 of that thread, I think. Might be worth a read. If you don't build the 2nd gas you can make it a 4factory-timing, I guess. It will just be a little harder to squeeze in all the unit-upgrades. The thing with these timings: They will only work consistently (unless you get lucky of course and/or your opponent is bad) if you scout what Protoss is doing beforehand, most importantly whether they go for a fast 3rd or stay on 2base for a while (and tech or add production). Depending on what Protoss does, sometimes you have to go asap (4 factories, or even on 2 factories with 3-4 tanks + marines), sometimes a bit later (5-6 factories)... Sometimes you need an armory for goliaths, sometimes an academy for scans, sometimes none of that... Sometimes better stay at home alltogether. A whole other question is how you actually push with the forces you have. You have to develop the necessary unit-control, game-sense and map-knowledge to be able to make the most out of your push in any given game. | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
You will lose a lot of games if you just do these builds blindly without taking the above factors into consideration. If protoss is greedy and you scout a super early 3rd, you just get your 4th fac as fast as you can, push out when you have 3-4 tanks or right before nexus is finished, and then rally vultures. That's all assuming you haven't took serious early game damage. 4 fac push can also be decent if protoss tried some dt or reaver rush and failed, where it left them fairly behind. 6fac push can work if protoss does early carrier's, screws up reavers badly, but generally used for when protoss 1) screws up early game, where then you now have a slight econ advantage 2) certain maps where starting spots are close 3) to beat a 2 base carrier rush. Unlike the 4fac, it does not work as well if protoss sneaked an early 3rd, and you scouted it too late. If you tried to do a 6fac push vs that, you'll get wrecked since they'll have their 8 gateways up already, with shuttles and speed zealots by the time your push comes. Again, if you blindly do these builds you will lose a lot, these are very situational builds usually to punish the protoss player when they are BEHIND. In most situations, if you aren't ahead, and opponent isn't behind, you will get smashed. | ||
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tankgirl
118 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + By cutting a lot of SCVs, the build allows you to move out with 8 tanks, 4 vultures, and 4 marines at about 8:05. It is safe against any kind of early game cheese other than a toss who rushes straight for DT, making only 1 or 2 goons and skipping the range upgrade. This isn't a standard 4-fact. The push moves out MUCH sooner than a standard 4-fact (almost a minute sooner). You have to micro very well. turret placement is key in deny scouting info for critical period and keeping protoss in the dark. -12 refinery -16 fact -27 cc (26 if scouting SCV dies) -one SCV after second tank (30 supply), then cut SCVs for siege upgrade, e-bay, third tank, and second factory -cut SCVs for turrets (4 max), tanks 6 and 7, factories 3 and 4, academy, 8th tank, vulture speed upgrade, 4 vults, mines upgrade, comsats -when you move out at 8:05, your supply should be 60/68 *note* you never take SCVs off gas The BO is not precise since I don't include when to make depots, but with a bit of practice you should be able to figure that out on your own. Note that this build is most effective on Fighting Spirit, since you can float your e-bay and barracks to the protoss as you move out and wall off at his natural, as seen in the VOD. After that, he will either do one of two things: he will suicide his whole army in an attempt to break your contain, or he will try to recall in your main. If it's the latter, you need to move a bunch of your units back to your base in time to defend. This build is really good but it's pretty allin. if the toss just power 2base and adds tons of quick gates you can camp and go for your 3rd and not be that far behind because the toss stays on 2base for so long to counter it. You can skip ebay after being fairly certain of no reaver. The SCV cutting makes it a delightful surprise, but I bet a pro-level protoss it would start powering gateways after seeing the natural's saturation with obs. again, denying scouting is critical. | ||
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Shiroime
France5 Posts
here's the VOD : https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/28866_Bisu_vs_Flash/vod Correct me if i'm wrong please : - Open Siege expand (you get 1 factory here) - 43 fac - 44 fac - 50 fac - 55 ion thruster I don't know if he cuts scv though, plus it's maybe better to get mines instead of ion thruster, or is it personnal preference ? I don't really know i'm too noob to tell that. | ||
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IIDally
1 Post
it's flash's vod if u don't have him on youtube he has lot of other builds u can use the caption subtitle to check it out actually here's the +1 6 fact | ||
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mauwee
Vatican City State75 Posts
 Hiya 4-FacVOD + Show Spoiler + "This is an awesome tvp mid-game 2-base 4-fact that Hiya used against Shuttle back in 2009 Proleague." + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + By cutting a lot of SCVs, the build allows you to move out with 8 tanks, 4 vultures, and 4 marines at about 8:05. It is safe against any kind of early game cheese other than a toss who rushes straight for DT, making only 1 or 2 goons and skipping the range upgrade. This isn't a standard 4-fact. The push moves out MUCH sooner than a standard 4-fact (almost a minute sooner). You have to micro very well. turret placement is key in deny scouting info for critical period and keeping protoss in the dark. -12 refinery -16 fact -27 cc (26 if scouting SCV dies) -one SCV after second tank (30 supply), then cut SCVs for siege upgrade, e-bay, third tank, and second factory -cut SCVs for turrets (4 max), tanks 6 and 7, factories 3 and 4, academy, 8th tank, vulture speed upgrade, 4 vults, mines upgrade, comsats -when you move out at 8:05, your supply should be 60/68 *note* you never take SCVs off gas The BO is not precise since I don't include when to make depots, but with a bit of practice you should be able to figure that out on your own. Note that this build is most effective on Fighting Spirit, since you can float your e-bay and barracks to the protoss as you move out and wall off at his natural, as seen in the VOD. After that, he will either do one of two things: he will suicide his whole army in an attempt to break your contain, or he will try to recall in your main. If it's the latter, you need to move a bunch of your units back to your base in time to defend. This build is really good but it's pretty allin. if the toss just power 2base and adds tons of quick gates you can camp and go for your 3rd and not be that far behind because the toss stays on 2base for so long to counter it. You can skip ebay after being fairly certain of no reaver. The SCV cutting makes it a delightful surprise, but I bet a pro-level protoss it would start powering gateways after seeing the natural's saturation with obs. again, denying scouting is critical. | ||
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rand0MPrecisi0n
289 Posts
Flash vs Mini. 6 fact all-in vs 12 nex into 2 base carrier | ||
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