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[Q]4 fac push and 6 fac push BO TvP?

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Omgoodnessess
Profile Joined November 2009
United States61 Posts
February 26 2010 17:01 GMT
#1
Does anyone know the build order to these builds? Liquipedia doens't have it and i couldn't find any in the search function
ahleezay
Profile Joined July 2009
43 Posts
February 26 2010 17:09 GMT
#2
this is a replay of me doing the standard 4fac push:
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=32135
Necosarius
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden4042 Posts
February 26 2010 18:36 GMT
#3
I don't get why threads like these gets deleted, I've posted the same buildorders several times. Here is the 4 fact build taken from Light:

FD opening
9 supply
11 rax/gas
14 depot
15 fact, scvs off gas
20 cc, scvs back to gas
make 5 marines, one tank and one vult, research mines
34 (i think) ebay
38 depot
38 fact
40 fact
44 fact
46 supply
Omgoodnessess
Profile Joined November 2009
United States61 Posts
February 26 2010 19:43 GMT
#4
at necosarius: are u sure that BO is right? Cuz I dont think its even possible to get CC that early with FD since ur making marines
KP_CollectoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States744 Posts
February 26 2010 19:48 GMT
#5
the replay is light vs jangbi, and if i remember he does something unorthodox like stopping marine production at 2 to make the cc (?)
English Brood War Commentaries - Please Subscribe! youtube.com/dimecollectorsc... Winner of The "LeBron" Award for Best Rookie (FPL 5)
Omgoodnessess
Profile Joined November 2009
United States61 Posts
February 26 2010 19:56 GMT
#6
I want a standard 4 fac and 6 fac BO lol
Necosarius
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden4042 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-26 20:22:04
February 26 2010 20:06 GMT
#7
Yeah Collector is right, he makes 2 marines and stops marine production for a faster CC. And it's a mistake by me, it's on 21 you will be able to make the CC, 20 if you scouting scv dies before you are able to make it.

Edit: If you want constant marine production you will have to make a supply at 20 and you CC will be at 29 or 31, can't remember right now, and I think you factories will come out later if you don't cut scvs. Can't say for sure tho
KP_CollectoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States744 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-26 20:09:06
February 26 2010 20:08 GMT
#8
On February 27 2010 04:56 Omgoodnessess wrote:
I want a standard 4 fac and 6 fac BO lol


do you want to have one machine shop pumping tanks or two?

edit - also, have you tried going through pro replays to find this yourself?
English Brood War Commentaries - Please Subscribe! youtube.com/dimecollectorsc... Winner of The "LeBron" Award for Best Rookie (FPL 5)
ZeKk
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sweden320 Posts
February 26 2010 20:14 GMT
#9
shearch for this thread for more info about a 4 fact timing push ."TvP 4 Fact Timing Push". There's even a replay in there of the buildorder Necosarius explained.
JBass
Profile Joined February 2018
7 Posts
March 06 2019 19:12 GMT
#10
Do nobody knew 6Fac
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1404 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-07 09:00:52
March 07 2019 08:51 GMT
#11
1rax FE into 6fact

I knew I had seen that nice 6-fact-guide with pictures years ago, took me a while to find it. You're welcome.

edit: That thread definitely should have a "[G]" in the title - and a different title (because it doesn't mention the 6fact)

A few people go craaaazy in-depth about TvP-timing-pushes on page2 of that thread, I think. Might be worth a read.

If you don't build the 2nd gas you can make it a 4factory-timing, I guess. It will just be a little harder to squeeze in all the unit-upgrades.

The thing with these timings: They will only work consistently (unless you get lucky of course and/or your opponent is bad) if you scout what Protoss is doing beforehand, most importantly whether they go for a fast 3rd or stay on 2base for a while (and tech or add production).
Depending on what Protoss does, sometimes you have to go asap (4 factories, or even on 2 factories with 3-4 tanks + marines), sometimes a bit later (5-6 factories)... Sometimes you need an armory for goliaths, sometimes an academy for scans, sometimes none of that... Sometimes better stay at home alltogether.
A whole other question is how you actually push with the forces you have. You have to develop the necessary unit-control, game-sense and map-knowledge to be able to make the most out of your push in any given game.
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-17 14:17:17
March 17 2019 14:15 GMT
#12
These 4 fac and 6 fac pushes are very map, starting position, and situationally dependent.

You will lose a lot of games if you just do these builds blindly without taking the above factors into consideration. If protoss is greedy and you scout a super early 3rd, you just get your 4th fac as fast as you can, push out when you have 3-4 tanks or right before nexus is finished, and then rally vultures. That's all assuming you haven't took serious early game damage. 4 fac push can also be decent if protoss tried some dt or reaver rush and failed, where it left them fairly behind.

6fac push can work if protoss does early carrier's, screws up reavers badly, but generally used for when protoss 1) screws up early game, where then you now have a slight econ advantage 2) certain maps where starting spots are close 3) to beat a 2 base carrier rush. Unlike the 4fac, it does not work as well if protoss sneaked an early 3rd, and you scouted it too late. If you tried to do a 6fac push vs that, you'll get wrecked since they'll have their 8 gateways up already, with shuttles and speed zealots by the time your push comes.

Again, if you blindly do these builds you will lose a lot, these are very situational builds usually to punish the protoss player when they are BEHIND. In most situations, if you aren't ahead, and opponent isn't behind, you will get smashed.
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
tankgirl
Profile Blog Joined May 2016
Canada397 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-24 18:14:14
March 24 2019 14:48 GMT
#13
This is an awesome tvp mid-game 2-base 4-fact that Hiya used against Shuttle back in 2009 Proleague.

+ Show Spoiler +
youtube


By cutting a lot of SCVs, the build allows you to move out with 8 tanks, 4 vultures, and 4 marines at about 8:05. It is safe against any kind of early game cheese other than a toss who rushes straight for DT, making only 1 or 2 goons and skipping the range upgrade. This isn't a standard 4-fact. The push moves out MUCH sooner than a standard 4-fact (almost a minute sooner).

You have to micro very well. turret placement is key in deny scouting info for critical period and keeping protoss in the dark.

-12 refinery
-16 fact
-27 cc (26 if scouting SCV dies)
-one SCV after second tank (30 supply), then cut SCVs for siege upgrade, e-bay, third tank, and second factory
-cut SCVs for turrets (4 max), tanks 6 and 7, factories 3 and 4, academy, 8th tank, vulture speed upgrade, 4 vults, mines upgrade, comsats
-when you move out at 8:05, your supply should be 60/68
*note* you never take SCVs off gas

The BO is not precise since I don't include when to make depots, but with a bit of practice you should be able to figure that out on your own. Note that this build is most effective on Fighting Spirit, since you can float your e-bay and barracks to the protoss as you move out and wall off at his natural, as seen in the VOD. After that, he will either do one of two things: he will suicide his whole army in an attempt to break your contain, or he will try to recall in your main. If it's the latter, you need to move a bunch of your units back to your base in time to defend.

This build is really good but it's pretty allin. if the toss just power 2base and adds tons of quick gates you can camp and go for your 3rd and not be that far behind because the toss stays on 2base for so long to counter it. You can skip ebay after being fairly certain of no reaver. The SCV cutting makes it a delightful surprise, but I bet a pro-level protoss it would start powering gateways after seeing the natural's saturation with obs. again, denying scouting is critical.
https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/627255-progamer-settings
TL+ Member
Shiroime
Profile Joined November 2018
France10 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-06 11:39:32
April 06 2019 10:21 GMT
#14
I also found here a 4 factory push from Flash vs Bisu
here's the VOD : https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/28866_Bisu_vs_Flash/vod

Correct me if i'm wrong please :

- Open Siege expand (you get 1 factory here)
- 43 fac
- 44 fac
- 49 fac
- 55 ion thruster

He pushs at 6 tanks in the VOD

I don't know if he cuts scv though, plus it's maybe better to get mines instead of ion thruster, or is it personnal preference ? I don't really know i'm too noob to tell that.
IIDally
Profile Joined April 2019
1 Post
Last Edited: 2019-04-14 04:10:25
April 14 2019 02:55 GMT
#15
hey u can caption for subtitle this is pretty much the same as 6 fact timing, more refined version of it due to the maps being changed 6 fact is from python/match point days which meta was more about 2 base plays, u probably better off doing this than 6fact since if u just save army and do decent enough pressure u can take 3rd and go for standard 2/1 timing, butttt this is also an all in so crisp the build order optimize then u should get some wins off it

it's flash's vod if u don't have him on youtube he has lot of other builds u can use the caption subtitle to check it out

actually here's the +1 6 fact
mauwee
Profile Joined August 2013
Vatican City State78 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-17 20:39:07
April 17 2019 20:35 GMT
#16
Hiya 4-Fac - (Wiki)Hiya 4-Fac

VOD + Show Spoiler +




"This is an awesome tvp mid-game 2-base 4-fact that Hiya used against Shuttle back in 2009 Proleague."

+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +

By cutting a lot of SCVs, the build allows you to move out with 8 tanks, 4 vultures, and 4 marines at about 8:05. It is safe against any kind of early game cheese other than a toss who rushes straight for DT, making only 1 or 2 goons and skipping the range upgrade. This isn't a standard 4-fact. The push moves out MUCH sooner than a standard 4-fact (almost a minute sooner).

You have to micro very well. turret placement is key in deny scouting info for critical period and keeping protoss in the dark.

-12 refinery
-16 fact
-27 cc (26 if scouting SCV dies)
-one SCV after second tank (30 supply), then cut SCVs for siege upgrade, e-bay, third tank, and second factory
-cut SCVs for turrets (4 max), tanks 6 and 7, factories 3 and 4, academy, 8th tank, vulture speed upgrade, 4 vults, mines upgrade, comsats
-when you move out at 8:05, your supply should be 60/68
*note* you never take SCVs off gas

The BO is not precise since I don't include when to make depots, but with a bit of practice you should be able to figure that out on your own. Note that this build is most effective on Fighting Spirit, since you can float your e-bay and barracks to the protoss as you move out and wall off at his natural, as seen in the VOD. After that, he will either do one of two things: he will suicide his whole army in an attempt to break your contain, or he will try to recall in your main. If it's the latter, you need to move a bunch of your units back to your base in time to defend.

This build is really good but it's pretty allin. if the toss just power 2base and adds tons of quick gates you can camp and go for your 3rd and not be that far behind because the toss stays on 2base for so long to counter it. You can skip ebay after being fairly certain of no reaver. The SCV cutting makes it a delightful surprise, but I bet a pro-level protoss it would start powering gateways after seeing the natural's saturation with obs. again, denying scouting is critical.
If what you say is true the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be dangerous.
rand0MPrecisi0n
Profile Joined February 2017
313 Posts
April 20 2019 15:35 GMT
#17


Flash vs Mini. 6 fact all-in vs 12 nex into 2 base carrier
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