Where you 14CC and, if you scout and see the zerg 12 hatching, you place a bunker with your scouting SCV to throw your opponent off and make him pull drones, despite the fact that no marines are coming

thunk

United States6233 Posts

January 21 2010 03:36 GMT

#24

You completely miss the point in Flash's bunker rushes. You have to variate your builds in a series somewhat or else you're going to get 3-0'd. It's easy to prepare if you know what's coming. Flash can make bunker rushes very high probability builds if he prepared well enough, so it makes sense for him to be use them once or twice (or three times) if they're going to work.

CapO

United States1615 Posts

January 21 2010 03:39 GMT

#25

umm, i get what koreasilver's implying there.
14cc means a late barrack,, so, by the time you're able to build a bunker at his hatchery, the hatchery would already be fully hatched with lings out

BAdGer_

United States80 Posts

January 21 2010 03:42 GMT

#26

in all of the games you showed he was correct in bunker rushing
as a general rule bunker rush > 12 hatch and =12 pool which is what most zergs do
and thats besides for the psych war thingy

Look at the circumstances.

Flash vs Jaedong:
Flash was already one game up. There is no reason why Flash shouldn't have done a really technical cheese. Should it work, will result in a 2-0 victory over a very good ZvT player.

Flash vs Kwanro:
OSL finals were like two days after this series. I don't think Flash put too much thought into this series and was probably quite lucky Kwanro went guardians twice, thus handing him easy victories.

Flash vs Calm:
MSL finals is in what? 3 days? Flash knew Calm wouldn't drone scout and would probably be going 12 hatch so he was pretty much certain the bunker rush would work.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

January 21 2010 03:46 GMT

#27

Flash also bunker rushed b/c he knew Calm does not drone scout (see the winner interview somewhere...)

CapO

United States1615 Posts

January 21 2010 03:48 GMT

#28

On January 21 2010 12:36 thunk wrote:
You completely miss the point in Flash's bunker rushes. You have to variate your builds in a series somewhat or else you're going to get 3-0'd. It's easy to prepare if you know what's coming. Flash can make bunker rushes very high probability builds if he prepared well enough, so it makes sense for him to be use them once or twice (or three times) if they're going to work.

well,,,,

here's what FLASH said in the recent interview after his series against kwanro:

"I initially planned for three consecutive bunker rushes in the first three sets. I planned to do bunker rushes in the second and third set from a long time ago. I might have gone for a bunker rush in the first set if our positions were switched. My coach said that it would be extremely funny if I went for three bunker rushes in a row."

yes, it's very possible to bunker rush consecutively.

T.O.P.

Hong Kong4685 Posts

January 21 2010 03:52 GMT

#29

On January 21 2010 12:19 n.DieJokes wrote:
Idk, bunker rush is stupid effective. It's single-handly the reason why I 12pool every game

See, just the threat of bunker rush made zergs choose a economically worse build.

Ideas

United States8171 Posts

January 21 2010 03:52 GMT

#30

I dont want to derail at all but there's been a shitload of 3 hatch hydra all-ins in ZvP lately too.

winners league is going to be so fucking cheesy

CapO

United States1615 Posts

January 21 2010 03:54 GMT

#31

On January 21 2010 12:52 T.O.P. wrote:

Show nested quote +

See, just the threat of bunker rush made zergs choose a economically worse build.

you zergs need to learn to scout

lazz

Australia3119 Posts

January 21 2010 03:58 GMT

#32

yeah seriously zergs. us protoss and terrans send out a worker to scout. maybe you guys should too?

Avidkeystamper

United States8556 Posts

January 21 2010 04:02 GMT

#33

On January 21 2010 12:58 lazz wrote:
yeah seriously zergs. us protoss and terrans send out a worker to scout. maybe you guys should too?

You guys don't lose a worker for each building. I'm not actually advocating anything, just pointing out how stupid it is to compare minor things like this.
*well this race is really strong in this certain scenario with this specific unit composition, they're imbalanced!*

kineSiS-

Korea (South)1068 Posts

January 21 2010 04:03 GMT

#34

Jaedong should 4 pool Flash and then shout, "Suck it!"

T.O.P.

Hong Kong4685 Posts

January 21 2010 04:09 GMT

#35

On January 21 2010 12:58 lazz wrote:
yeah seriously zergs. us protoss and terrans send out a worker to scout. maybe you guys should too?

Nope, that's stupid. I rather have a faster hatchery and a faster pool to defend against a bunker rush.

Jlab

United States217 Posts

January 21 2010 04:11 GMT

#36

On January 21 2010 13:03 kineSiS- wrote:
Jaedong should 4 pool Flash and then shout, "Suck it!"

The best is typing faggot and while the player is responding dropping all their bases. lol

I think the main reason is that flash has the minerals when he FE to build a bunker, so why not build it at their natural. Or its just a really effevtive way to get ahead and piss off the other player.

BlackMesa

Kenya338 Posts

January 21 2010 04:29 GMT

#37

On January 21 2010 12:48 CapO wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lol flash makes pro sc sound like a joke. It's like when boxer did it, but a lot less serious.

Cloud

Sexico5880 Posts

January 21 2010 04:30 GMT

#38

I thought it very cute that flash 8 raxed a second time vs kwanro after losing the first time to a 9 pool. Kwanro in a very predictable fashion went 12 hatch. I would have liked flash to go 8 rax a 3rd time.

Stopping bunker rushes has little to do with how you scout, I mean that's basic; you only not scout when you're 9 pooling.

RLTY

United States965 Posts

January 21 2010 04:34 GMT

#39

It's just a win-win situation all around. Not only is Flash keeping his plays variable between games and keeping the mind games up; bunker rushing can pull terran into a good positions (esp. vs 12 hatch) , sometimes even when it is unsuccessful.

NonFactor

Sweden698 Posts

January 21 2010 04:35 GMT

#40

Bunker rush is so gay imo. I play Terran often and when I do, I ALWAYS go 8rax into a Bunker Rush if I see the possibility. Personally I don't really see why not.

Even if the Bunker Rush fails, the Zerg is almost always behind anyway. And what I mean by failing a Bunker Rush, it's when you fail to kill the hatchery. Usually the Terran can just snipe a few drones and pull ahead. Losing a few SVCs is nothing compared to losing a few Drones at the start.

On top of that it's so easy to do as a Terran, and so much harder to stop as a Zerg. Just look at Ret streaming, he loses like always when someone does a Bunker Rush on him. Even whe he scouts it coming. If that first Marine slips in, your almost done for, and if a second gets in, you can kiss your hatchery good bye most of the time.

Also, 8rax if done in Natural / Main also defends against 4-5-9 pools quite handily. And if a Zerg goes 9pool, your economies should be similiar, no?