• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:13
CEST 12:13
KST 19:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-67SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)11Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE18
StarCraft 2
General
Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE State of the Game podcast archive? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4671 users

[Q] TvZ Lategame

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
BlackMesa
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Kenya338 Posts
January 07 2010 22:19 GMT
#1
I have a few general questions about what to do lategame tvz. Let's say the zerg is on 3 maybe 4 bases with ultralisk and defiler tech just finishing. I myself am probably still on 2 bases with 6 rax 2 tank factories and a starport pumping vessels. I read somewhere that the trick to lategame tvz is to get more tanks and not mnm. Is that true?
Also, it seems that even with a superior army, the zerg can throw down 2-3 swarms and with a ultra crackling army decimate my entire force. Is the trick just to alawys have your stuff hotkeyed so that you can retreat. Also, this is hard because of the constant stream of mnm. How is the lategame army usually hotkeyed?
Need a Light
Tyrokomos
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Greece43 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 22:31:56
January 07 2010 22:26 GMT
#2
SK TeRRaN = 2 Base, 9 Rax, 2 Ports = mass vessel irradiate
TanK PlaY = 2 Base, 7 Rax, 1 Port, 1 Fac = tank & vessel micro

Try to use dropships

i try to expo when:
- my push was strong
- minerals in mainbase are low

1 medics
2 rines
3 rines
4 rines
5 vessels
6 rest
7 rest

1 medic
2 rines
3 rines
4 tanks
5 vessel
6 rest
7 rest

on 2 Player maps, take your half and bunker with 3-0 masstanks and turrets
use 5-6 factorys for that, cos you need to produce as fast as possible

flash did that last week...
eX-v1o
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 22:42:01
January 07 2010 22:38 GMT
#3
Its time to switch back to tanks when you start heavy cash/gas float. Mostly this is when you secure a 3th base and have it runnig for awhile. Dont switch back to tanks from 2 basses cause you wont have enough gas to either support 2 starports and 1 fac making tanks. Tanks are still useless when your playing aggressive sk terran cause they dont complement in your army really well. Once you secured a 3th tanks become handy to defend this base and expand further against upcomming 4 gas ultra play.
Basicly a 3 base terran can support 7-9 rax, 2 ports + 1 fac making tanks. if your vessel cloud is going larger you can stop on 24/7 vessel production and add a total of 3 facs and transition back to a tank heavy force and prepare for a camp game were you use massed tanks mnm/vessel to slowly expand and wear zerg down.
Fash vs calm game 3 I think for example shows how you should do this, FBH vs savior comes to my mind to were terran switches back to a tank heavy army when on 3 base and start defending his 4 basses after.
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
January 07 2010 22:41 GMT
#4
The trick to playing lategame TvZ is to watch Flash and Fantasy and understand what they do and why they do it.

You aren't supposed to have 2 factories producing tanks before hive this isn't 2006. Standard timing attack involves 1 factory producing tank. Stop tank production after consume is done and switch to 2 port. Take the 3rd after your timing attack moves out. What you do here depends on how they are playing hive and what map. If they are turtling and taking a 4th (what you seem to be asking), take your 4th immediately (the other main normally) and start throwing down factories. Continue to pump Vessels off 2 ports while massing tanks (if 2 mains facts at each main) and taking a 5th when possible. Until they get significant numbers of ultralisks out you still have map control so make sure they don't sneak in a 5th during this period, but once they do have a mass of ultralisks out you will generally have to retreat to the relative safety of your tanks.

Your goal in this period is to make sure he can't drop you and that defilers never make their way across the map. Suicide vessels if need be to prevent this, but they can and will break you if they can swarm up at either base. Depending on your lead and map you can either push out when you get a significant amount of tanks and kill them, or turtle and take the remaining bases.

Sometimes it isn't going to be possible to mass tanks due to a lack of available gases so you are going to have to stay on pure SK Terran and add a starport for each gas and more barracks. Again though the key is to send your vessels out ahead of your army when they don't have scourge (will have to scan incessantly) and wear down their ultras and kill defilers. You will probably end up having too many marines to really control them well but as long as they can't fight battles with defilers and full hp ultras you will be at a pretty good advantage. Since you will have 3-4 ports producing vessels you definitely can afford to suicide some in order to get those key irradiates off, and quite frankly it wouldn't be a bad idea either to invest in EMP for critical situations. Generally you want to remain out of reach of their army but within supporting distance of your vessels until their defilers are dead and ultras worn down, then attack in that timing window.

Tank Heavy transition:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/34969_Calm_vs_Flash
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/25090_fantasy_vs_Jaedong
Zero vs Flash

Pure SK Terran:

http://www.gomtv.net/videos/966
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/34803_Flash_vs_HyuN

Liquipedia
BlackMesa
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Kenya338 Posts
January 07 2010 23:07 GMT
#5
i see, thank you guys for the information.
Need a Light
Necosarius
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden4042 Posts
January 07 2010 23:10 GMT
#6
Ver have spoken
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
January 07 2010 23:30 GMT
#7
Ver's post is perfect.

Another thing I'd like to throw in is that if you're planning a late game transition, don't stop making SCV's. If you stop at 40-45, your economy late game will be too weak to keep up with 4 base zerg. So it's worth having a weaker timing push in order to have a much stronger late game. If you don't stop until you have around 65 you can make from 9 barracks 2 fac 2 port easily, and continue to add more Factory's as Ver said.

ignore Tyrokomos's post, it contains more wrong information than useful stuff.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
January 08 2010 00:14 GMT
#8
First I'll say that the situation you described is extremely rare in today's TvZ metagame. You will never see 2 fac tanks vs a Zerg on almost 4 base that doesn't have defiler tech up and is going straight for Ultras. Learn the standard 9 Minute Push, and learn to transition straight into SK Terran. Never engage underneath swarm, pull back. You should be extremely aggressive and actively seeking to take map control. You shouldn't be in a situation where your only retreat path is to your natural, or you're doing something really wrong.

If you find yourself getting more MnM than you can hotkey (and you might), consolidate your bases with more MnM, and consider getting some firebats in the mix to negate lings (don't get too many though). Actively scan possible Zerg expos and send those extra rines out to take those expos down.

On that note, while Flash vs Calm was a good example of late game TvZ play, I'd caution you against using that tank strategy too much. It's highly likely that the game will not reach that point in the first place. Most TvZs usually end before Terran ever has enough resources to devote to Tanks. Don't transition to tanks unless you have clear map control and at least 3 gas bases with a highly likely chance of grabbing a fourth (ex. you have taken the main and can easily take the natural). Any other transition to tanks is asking for trouble.

Also note that Zerg can still be aggressive while they're taking their fourth through swarm pushes into either your natural or your third. Be very careful of that.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
10:00
Vespene Cup #3
deth9
Liquipedia
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 104
CranKy Ducklings17
LiquipediaDiscussion
KCM Race Survival
10:00
Season 3 Week 5
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 484
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
deth 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 888
firebathero 738
EffOrt 234
Soulkey 222
Soma 149
Larva 147
BeSt 140
Dewaltoss 107
hero 99
ggaemo 94
[ Show more ]
JYJ 84
Mind 56
ZerO 53
Hyun 50
Rush 43
Sharp 36
Snow 35
Stork 32
Last 29
Bale 24
sorry 22
Purpose 21
Noble 18
Sacsri 15
NotJumperer 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
soO 12
Sexy 10
[sc1f]eonzerg 5
League of Legends
JimRising 357
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1071
byalli782
shoxiejesuss1
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King123
Other Games
singsing1971
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick458
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 64
• LUISG 25
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV333
• lizZardDota2286
League of Legends
• Jankos974
Upcoming Events
INu's Battles
47m
Percival vs Cure
Classic vs Clem
Replay Cast
13h 47m
Escore
23h 47m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d
RSL Revival
1d 22h
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
The Patches Monday
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-04
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.