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[Q] TvZ Lategame

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
BlackMesa
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Kenya338 Posts
January 07 2010 22:19 GMT
#1
I have a few general questions about what to do lategame tvz. Let's say the zerg is on 3 maybe 4 bases with ultralisk and defiler tech just finishing. I myself am probably still on 2 bases with 6 rax 2 tank factories and a starport pumping vessels. I read somewhere that the trick to lategame tvz is to get more tanks and not mnm. Is that true?
Also, it seems that even with a superior army, the zerg can throw down 2-3 swarms and with a ultra crackling army decimate my entire force. Is the trick just to alawys have your stuff hotkeyed so that you can retreat. Also, this is hard because of the constant stream of mnm. How is the lategame army usually hotkeyed?
Need a Light
Tyrokomos
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Greece43 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 22:31:56
January 07 2010 22:26 GMT
#2
SK TeRRaN = 2 Base, 9 Rax, 2 Ports = mass vessel irradiate
TanK PlaY = 2 Base, 7 Rax, 1 Port, 1 Fac = tank & vessel micro

Try to use dropships

i try to expo when:
- my push was strong
- minerals in mainbase are low

1 medics
2 rines
3 rines
4 rines
5 vessels
6 rest
7 rest

1 medic
2 rines
3 rines
4 tanks
5 vessel
6 rest
7 rest

on 2 Player maps, take your half and bunker with 3-0 masstanks and turrets
use 5-6 factorys for that, cos you need to produce as fast as possible

flash did that last week...
eX-v1o
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 22:42:01
January 07 2010 22:38 GMT
#3
Its time to switch back to tanks when you start heavy cash/gas float. Mostly this is when you secure a 3th base and have it runnig for awhile. Dont switch back to tanks from 2 basses cause you wont have enough gas to either support 2 starports and 1 fac making tanks. Tanks are still useless when your playing aggressive sk terran cause they dont complement in your army really well. Once you secured a 3th tanks become handy to defend this base and expand further against upcomming 4 gas ultra play.
Basicly a 3 base terran can support 7-9 rax, 2 ports + 1 fac making tanks. if your vessel cloud is going larger you can stop on 24/7 vessel production and add a total of 3 facs and transition back to a tank heavy force and prepare for a camp game were you use massed tanks mnm/vessel to slowly expand and wear zerg down.
Fash vs calm game 3 I think for example shows how you should do this, FBH vs savior comes to my mind to were terran switches back to a tank heavy army when on 3 base and start defending his 4 basses after.
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
January 07 2010 22:41 GMT
#4
The trick to playing lategame TvZ is to watch Flash and Fantasy and understand what they do and why they do it.

You aren't supposed to have 2 factories producing tanks before hive this isn't 2006. Standard timing attack involves 1 factory producing tank. Stop tank production after consume is done and switch to 2 port. Take the 3rd after your timing attack moves out. What you do here depends on how they are playing hive and what map. If they are turtling and taking a 4th (what you seem to be asking), take your 4th immediately (the other main normally) and start throwing down factories. Continue to pump Vessels off 2 ports while massing tanks (if 2 mains facts at each main) and taking a 5th when possible. Until they get significant numbers of ultralisks out you still have map control so make sure they don't sneak in a 5th during this period, but once they do have a mass of ultralisks out you will generally have to retreat to the relative safety of your tanks.

Your goal in this period is to make sure he can't drop you and that defilers never make their way across the map. Suicide vessels if need be to prevent this, but they can and will break you if they can swarm up at either base. Depending on your lead and map you can either push out when you get a significant amount of tanks and kill them, or turtle and take the remaining bases.

Sometimes it isn't going to be possible to mass tanks due to a lack of available gases so you are going to have to stay on pure SK Terran and add a starport for each gas and more barracks. Again though the key is to send your vessels out ahead of your army when they don't have scourge (will have to scan incessantly) and wear down their ultras and kill defilers. You will probably end up having too many marines to really control them well but as long as they can't fight battles with defilers and full hp ultras you will be at a pretty good advantage. Since you will have 3-4 ports producing vessels you definitely can afford to suicide some in order to get those key irradiates off, and quite frankly it wouldn't be a bad idea either to invest in EMP for critical situations. Generally you want to remain out of reach of their army but within supporting distance of your vessels until their defilers are dead and ultras worn down, then attack in that timing window.

Tank Heavy transition:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/34969_Calm_vs_Flash
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/25090_fantasy_vs_Jaedong
Zero vs Flash

Pure SK Terran:

http://www.gomtv.net/videos/966
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/34803_Flash_vs_HyuN

Liquipedia
BlackMesa
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Kenya338 Posts
January 07 2010 23:07 GMT
#5
i see, thank you guys for the information.
Need a Light
Necosarius
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden4042 Posts
January 07 2010 23:10 GMT
#6
Ver have spoken
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
January 07 2010 23:30 GMT
#7
Ver's post is perfect.

Another thing I'd like to throw in is that if you're planning a late game transition, don't stop making SCV's. If you stop at 40-45, your economy late game will be too weak to keep up with 4 base zerg. So it's worth having a weaker timing push in order to have a much stronger late game. If you don't stop until you have around 65 you can make from 9 barracks 2 fac 2 port easily, and continue to add more Factory's as Ver said.

ignore Tyrokomos's post, it contains more wrong information than useful stuff.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
January 08 2010 00:14 GMT
#8
First I'll say that the situation you described is extremely rare in today's TvZ metagame. You will never see 2 fac tanks vs a Zerg on almost 4 base that doesn't have defiler tech up and is going straight for Ultras. Learn the standard 9 Minute Push, and learn to transition straight into SK Terran. Never engage underneath swarm, pull back. You should be extremely aggressive and actively seeking to take map control. You shouldn't be in a situation where your only retreat path is to your natural, or you're doing something really wrong.

If you find yourself getting more MnM than you can hotkey (and you might), consolidate your bases with more MnM, and consider getting some firebats in the mix to negate lings (don't get too many though). Actively scan possible Zerg expos and send those extra rines out to take those expos down.

On that note, while Flash vs Calm was a good example of late game TvZ play, I'd caution you against using that tank strategy too much. It's highly likely that the game will not reach that point in the first place. Most TvZs usually end before Terran ever has enough resources to devote to Tanks. Don't transition to tanks unless you have clear map control and at least 3 gas bases with a highly likely chance of grabbing a fourth (ex. you have taken the main and can easily take the natural). Any other transition to tanks is asking for trouble.

Also note that Zerg can still be aggressive while they're taking their fourth through swarm pushes into either your natural or your third. Be very careful of that.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
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