• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:08
CEST 00:08
KST 07:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy9[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 239Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Announcement RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
BSL Season 23 Bot on ladder SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 4/4 screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27! PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague [ASL22] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Diablo IV EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8332 users

[Spoilers] e-Stars Day 3 Reach vs Tossgirl - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Nitan
Profile Joined September 2008
United States3401 Posts
July 20 2009 15:22 GMT
#41
I assume everyone who suspects a fix hates Reach with a burning passion because accusing him of throwing games is pretty harsh.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.
Kreedit
Profile Joined March 2009
Sweden373 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 15:27:32
July 20 2009 15:26 GMT
#42
He simply threw it theres no other alternative in my eyes.

Reach even though hes in ace and isnt that hot anymore still got a sexy PvT (sure hes no stork or jangbi but hes good) while tossgirl is FUCKING HORRIBLE in all matchups(heard that she might be half decent vs z but not to sure of that.

Add in all the dumb mistakes he made and yeah... it all adds up to him throwing it.

EDIT: I can accept that he went soft on her to make up for all that earlier shit but then got overwhelmed. tough that still qualifies as throwing it for me.
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
July 20 2009 15:27 GMT
#43
I think E-sports is fully recognized as a sport in Korea (it is in China at least), and match fixing in sports is illegal in pretty much every country in the world. So, people in this thread is pretty much accusing Reach for being a criminal.
nexusil
Profile Joined July 2009
United States52 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 15:44:40
July 20 2009 15:43 GMT
#44
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
July 20 2009 15:48 GMT
#45
I'm not saying "Reach did this and that, so this was definitely fixed". I'm just saying that "this and this factors all combined highly seems likely that it was match-fixing (or Reach just giving the match away)." I'm not dead set on believing that Reach did it. It's just.. compared to his normal games, I can't help but think about it.
POGGERS
Johnny B
Profile Joined April 2009
United States76 Posts
July 20 2009 16:00 GMT
#46
@nexusil
Welcome to TL! You make fair points; I'll have to watch the VOD once it's up.

I think there's still enough suspicion to warrant a trial of Reach not playing his hardest, but I'm not convicting him yet.
My dad can beat your dad in StarCraft.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
July 20 2009 16:05 GMT
#47
On July 21 2009 00:43 nexusil wrote:
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.

Fair enough reason, but for the expo issue, Tossgirl spawned at 1. Siege tank and turret near the cliff and slowly transfer tanks to the island. Nat easily destroyed. If Tossgirl spawned at let's say, 7 or 9, this would have been more understandable. Of course, Reach may not have anticipated Tossgirl to go for dropships, but seeing how many games were played on that map, as well as the close position spawns, he should have known that.
POGGERS
Mah Buckit!
Profile Joined April 2009
Finland474 Posts
July 20 2009 16:31 GMT
#48
On July 21 2009 01:05 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2009 00:43 nexusil wrote:
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.

Fair enough reason, but for the expo issue, Tossgirl spawned at 1. Siege tank and turret near the cliff and slowly transfer tanks to the island. Nat easily destroyed. If Tossgirl spawned at let's say, 7 or 9, this would have been more understandable. Of course, Reach may not have anticipated Tossgirl to go for dropships, but seeing how many games were played on that map, as well as the close position spawns, he should have known that.


Yeah maybe Reach thought she would play in the same fashion as Boxer because she didn´t cheese either, expanding to the bottom and securing with a tankline. Reach was going for a early game economical lead. Maybe he didn´t think Tossgirl would go for air at all when she built all those turrets and didn´t get a Dship that fast.

I think Reach is the Man but god it was a sloppy game from him, no HTs no ground units. And that was also the best game from Tossgirl I have ever seen, she didn´t make that many bad mistakes.
Starcraft? Epic Grimness.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 16:34:53
July 20 2009 16:34 GMT
#49
Reach recently lost to tiny in a series. That's far worse, to me, than to lose to tossgirl. At this point, she's only being stigmatized for being female. Tossgirl is basically either at an average b-teamer level or just slightly above it. There are way worse players out there. Cat, for instance is like 0-5 in minor league. (I think he's neo.g.minam now.) Even very good players can lose to b-teamers in bo1 matches, and being in ACE guarantees that Reach might only have 50% of the practice time tossgirl does (she recently mentioned she's practicing 14 hours a day for this tournament, ACE members have 8 hours I think) and might not have as good practice partners. What terrans are on ace? Casy? Cloud?
Ruby is there, but i don't think he's even done with basic yet. I LB tossgirl because I thought she'd be able to take one of the ACE players in this tournament. I do think that tossgirl would benefit from being on a team that actually participates in minor league, though.
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
July 20 2009 16:37 GMT
#50
I think it is likely that Reach thought he could pretty much get away with anything against Tossgirl, like expanding at 1'o clock.
Which made it so much sweater when she stole the expansion from him.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66364 Posts
July 20 2009 16:37 GMT
#51
On July 21 2009 01:34 Nevuk wrote:
Reach recently lost to tiny in a series. That's far worse, to me, than to lose to tossgirl. At this point, she's only being stigmatized for being female. Tossgirl is basically either at an average b-teamer level or just slightly above it. There are way worse players out there. Cat, for instance is like 0-5 in minor league. (I think he's neo.g.minam now.) Even very good players can lose to b-teamers in bo1 matches, and being in ACE guarantees that Reach might only have 50% of the practice time tossgirl does (she recently mentioned she's practicing 14 hours a day for this tournament, ACE members have 8 hours I think) and might not have as good practice partners. What terrans are on ace? Casy? Cloud?
Ruby is there, but i don't think he's even done with basic yet. I LB tossgirl because I thought she'd be able to take one of the ACE players in this tournament. I do think that tossgirl would benefit from being on a team that actually participates in minor league, though.

Reach losing to Tossgirl isn't really what's upsetting me, it's just how Reach played so bad as compared to when he usually does, as though to throw away the game. Most, if not all his decision making was poor and bad.
POGGERS
laLAlA[uC]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada963 Posts
July 20 2009 16:38 GMT
#52
Tossgirl won cause I liquibetted on her. ;D
I'm an old man now
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13922 Posts
July 20 2009 16:38 GMT
#53
On July 20 2009 21:19 Eury wrote:
You seriously think that Reach would throw away a game with that much money on the line not to mention his reputation? And for what; Tossgirl's gratitude? Not sure if that it is worth $40k, but maybe you have a different opinion.


the power of a women is not how well she plays, but in the bed.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13922 Posts
July 20 2009 16:40 GMT
#54
On July 21 2009 01:05 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2009 00:43 nexusil wrote:
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.

Fair enough reason, but for the expo issue, Tossgirl spawned at 1. Siege tank and turret near the cliff and slowly transfer tanks to the island. Nat easily destroyed. If Tossgirl spawned at let's say, 7 or 9, this would have been more understandable. Of course, Reach may not have anticipated Tossgirl to go for dropships, but seeing how many games were played on that map, as well as the close position spawns, he should have known that.


maybe he thought it would be a nice secret expo, close for the drop.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
July 20 2009 16:48 GMT
#55
On July 21 2009 01:38 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
Tossgirl won cause I liquibetted on her. ;D


But seriously, Reach played really sloppy and Tossgirl pretty well (for her standards), but thinking that Reach dropped this game on purpose is just wrong, and kinda ridiculous.
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
koOl
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada254 Posts
July 20 2009 17:43 GMT
#56
On July 21 2009 00:01 Zzoram wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2009 23:51 JWD wrote:
Reach badly needed this win to advance from his group in SHL...his motivation to win the game was much, much stronger than any motivation to lose it.


Exactly. There was a large cash prize, prestige, and his reputation on the line. No way he meant to lose that game. At the VERY WORST, he may not have fully prepared because he underestimated her, and wasn't fully concentrating early on because of the epic fails he witnessed from her recently. After that, you can blame his slipups to panic.


aye..it makes no sense to lose a match that was do or die in a sense. he needed to win it to get into the finals
hihi
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 18:12:40
July 20 2009 18:11 GMT
#57
On July 20 2009 20:40 konadora wrote:
The whole thing just felt rather sloppy and lazy on Reach's part. It was almost like he didn't really care that much.


Yeah, I don't think the match was a set up. I dunno why such conspiracy theories should even warrant a thread of their own to be honest.

He lost to Tossgirl, yeah so what. He played bad, and she played decently. People are being ridiculousy biased against her because she's a girl.

I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 18:14:51
July 20 2009 18:14 GMT
#58
On July 21 2009 01:37 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2009 01:34 Nevuk wrote:
Reach recently lost to tiny in a series. That's far worse, to me, than to lose to tossgirl. At this point, she's only being stigmatized for being female. Tossgirl is basically either at an average b-teamer level or just slightly above it. There are way worse players out there. Cat, for instance is like 0-5 in minor league. (I think he's neo.g.minam now.) Even very good players can lose to b-teamers in bo1 matches, and being in ACE guarantees that Reach might only have 50% of the practice time tossgirl does (she recently mentioned she's practicing 14 hours a day for this tournament, ACE members have 8 hours I think) and might not have as good practice partners. What terrans are on ace? Casy? Cloud?
Ruby is there, but i don't think he's even done with basic yet. I LB tossgirl because I thought she'd be able to take one of the ACE players in this tournament. I do think that tossgirl would benefit from being on a team that actually participates in minor league, though.

Reach losing to Tossgirl isn't really what's upsetting me, it's just how Reach played so bad as compared to when he usually does, as though to throw away the game. Most, if not all his decision making was poor and bad.


Yeah but I bet it upsets you ten times more that he lost to Tossgirl though. I think this thread is a bit awkward to be honest. First of all you're accusing Reach of throwing games, second you make a big deal out of him loosing to a female progamer.
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
July 20 2009 18:36 GMT
#59
Toss girl wins and they immediately go to, "The match was fixed, haha"
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
BisuBoi
Profile Joined February 2009
United States350 Posts
July 20 2009 18:58 GMT
#60
It's not about being a gentleman. The other game was a showmatch! Nothing on the line. Why in hell would Reach throw away an individual league tourney game to make up for a foreigner showmatch? And why would it be compelling evidence to say it's Reach's retirement match? What man do you know says he wants to end his career on a loss?
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 132
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17513
White-Ra 139
Artosis 112
NaDa 21
Dota 2
monkeys_forever235
febbydoto10
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 2072
pashabiceps947
Super Smash Bros
PPMD47
Other Games
summit1g6362
Liquid`RaSZi1787
shahzam568
C9.Mang0255
Liquid`Hasu251
NeuroSwarm69
Trikslyr46
ViBE38
Mew2King35
JuggernautJason25
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 220
Other Games
BasetradeTV46
StarCraft: Brood War
angryscii 23
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile125
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 45
• HerbMon 30
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur227
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 52m
WardiTV Invitational
12h 52m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 5h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 11h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 18h
GSL
2 days
Yamato Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.