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[Spoilers] e-Stars Day 3 Reach vs Tossgirl - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
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Nitan
Profile Joined September 2008
United States3401 Posts
July 20 2009 15:22 GMT
#41
I assume everyone who suspects a fix hates Reach with a burning passion because accusing him of throwing games is pretty harsh.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.
Kreedit
Profile Joined March 2009
Sweden373 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 15:27:32
July 20 2009 15:26 GMT
#42
He simply threw it theres no other alternative in my eyes.

Reach even though hes in ace and isnt that hot anymore still got a sexy PvT (sure hes no stork or jangbi but hes good) while tossgirl is FUCKING HORRIBLE in all matchups(heard that she might be half decent vs z but not to sure of that.

Add in all the dumb mistakes he made and yeah... it all adds up to him throwing it.

EDIT: I can accept that he went soft on her to make up for all that earlier shit but then got overwhelmed. tough that still qualifies as throwing it for me.
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
July 20 2009 15:27 GMT
#43
I think E-sports is fully recognized as a sport in Korea (it is in China at least), and match fixing in sports is illegal in pretty much every country in the world. So, people in this thread is pretty much accusing Reach for being a criminal.
nexusil
Profile Joined July 2009
United States52 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 15:44:40
July 20 2009 15:43 GMT
#44
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66360 Posts
July 20 2009 15:48 GMT
#45
I'm not saying "Reach did this and that, so this was definitely fixed". I'm just saying that "this and this factors all combined highly seems likely that it was match-fixing (or Reach just giving the match away)." I'm not dead set on believing that Reach did it. It's just.. compared to his normal games, I can't help but think about it.
POGGERS
Johnny B
Profile Joined April 2009
United States76 Posts
July 20 2009 16:00 GMT
#46
@nexusil
Welcome to TL! You make fair points; I'll have to watch the VOD once it's up.

I think there's still enough suspicion to warrant a trial of Reach not playing his hardest, but I'm not convicting him yet.
My dad can beat your dad in StarCraft.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66360 Posts
July 20 2009 16:05 GMT
#47
On July 21 2009 00:43 nexusil wrote:
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.

Fair enough reason, but for the expo issue, Tossgirl spawned at 1. Siege tank and turret near the cliff and slowly transfer tanks to the island. Nat easily destroyed. If Tossgirl spawned at let's say, 7 or 9, this would have been more understandable. Of course, Reach may not have anticipated Tossgirl to go for dropships, but seeing how many games were played on that map, as well as the close position spawns, he should have known that.
POGGERS
Mah Buckit!
Profile Joined April 2009
Finland474 Posts
July 20 2009 16:31 GMT
#48
On July 21 2009 01:05 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2009 00:43 nexusil wrote:
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.

Fair enough reason, but for the expo issue, Tossgirl spawned at 1. Siege tank and turret near the cliff and slowly transfer tanks to the island. Nat easily destroyed. If Tossgirl spawned at let's say, 7 or 9, this would have been more understandable. Of course, Reach may not have anticipated Tossgirl to go for dropships, but seeing how many games were played on that map, as well as the close position spawns, he should have known that.


Yeah maybe Reach thought she would play in the same fashion as Boxer because she didn´t cheese either, expanding to the bottom and securing with a tankline. Reach was going for a early game economical lead. Maybe he didn´t think Tossgirl would go for air at all when she built all those turrets and didn´t get a Dship that fast.

I think Reach is the Man but god it was a sloppy game from him, no HTs no ground units. And that was also the best game from Tossgirl I have ever seen, she didn´t make that many bad mistakes.
Starcraft? Epic Grimness.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 16:34:53
July 20 2009 16:34 GMT
#49
Reach recently lost to tiny in a series. That's far worse, to me, than to lose to tossgirl. At this point, she's only being stigmatized for being female. Tossgirl is basically either at an average b-teamer level or just slightly above it. There are way worse players out there. Cat, for instance is like 0-5 in minor league. (I think he's neo.g.minam now.) Even very good players can lose to b-teamers in bo1 matches, and being in ACE guarantees that Reach might only have 50% of the practice time tossgirl does (she recently mentioned she's practicing 14 hours a day for this tournament, ACE members have 8 hours I think) and might not have as good practice partners. What terrans are on ace? Casy? Cloud?
Ruby is there, but i don't think he's even done with basic yet. I LB tossgirl because I thought she'd be able to take one of the ACE players in this tournament. I do think that tossgirl would benefit from being on a team that actually participates in minor league, though.
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
July 20 2009 16:37 GMT
#50
I think it is likely that Reach thought he could pretty much get away with anything against Tossgirl, like expanding at 1'o clock.
Which made it so much sweater when she stole the expansion from him.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66360 Posts
July 20 2009 16:37 GMT
#51
On July 21 2009 01:34 Nevuk wrote:
Reach recently lost to tiny in a series. That's far worse, to me, than to lose to tossgirl. At this point, she's only being stigmatized for being female. Tossgirl is basically either at an average b-teamer level or just slightly above it. There are way worse players out there. Cat, for instance is like 0-5 in minor league. (I think he's neo.g.minam now.) Even very good players can lose to b-teamers in bo1 matches, and being in ACE guarantees that Reach might only have 50% of the practice time tossgirl does (she recently mentioned she's practicing 14 hours a day for this tournament, ACE members have 8 hours I think) and might not have as good practice partners. What terrans are on ace? Casy? Cloud?
Ruby is there, but i don't think he's even done with basic yet. I LB tossgirl because I thought she'd be able to take one of the ACE players in this tournament. I do think that tossgirl would benefit from being on a team that actually participates in minor league, though.

Reach losing to Tossgirl isn't really what's upsetting me, it's just how Reach played so bad as compared to when he usually does, as though to throw away the game. Most, if not all his decision making was poor and bad.
POGGERS
laLAlA[uC]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada963 Posts
July 20 2009 16:38 GMT
#52
Tossgirl won cause I liquibetted on her. ;D
I'm an old man now
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
July 20 2009 16:38 GMT
#53
On July 20 2009 21:19 Eury wrote:
You seriously think that Reach would throw away a game with that much money on the line not to mention his reputation? And for what; Tossgirl's gratitude? Not sure if that it is worth $40k, but maybe you have a different opinion.


the power of a women is not how well she plays, but in the bed.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
July 20 2009 16:40 GMT
#54
On July 21 2009 01:05 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2009 00:43 nexusil wrote:
Reach not saving the nexus with his reaver:
Even if he killed the tank before the tank killed the nexus, it wouldn't have mattered the slightest. He ended up killing that tank anyway, and still failed to secure the expansion. By the time tossgirl floated over her CC, that nexus would be dead one way or another and Reach knows that. It wasn't high priority as long as he kills the tank.

Reach expanding at 1'o clock:
At the time it probably felt like a good idea as a hidden expo. Tossgirl did not find that expo until her dropship was returning and met an unexpected goon which almost sniped the decelerating dropship. She would never have found it if it weren't for the drop, and even then had a good chance of not finding it. That expo would be easy to defend once the Carriers were out.

Fair enough reason, but for the expo issue, Tossgirl spawned at 1. Siege tank and turret near the cliff and slowly transfer tanks to the island. Nat easily destroyed. If Tossgirl spawned at let's say, 7 or 9, this would have been more understandable. Of course, Reach may not have anticipated Tossgirl to go for dropships, but seeing how many games were played on that map, as well as the close position spawns, he should have known that.


maybe he thought it would be a nice secret expo, close for the drop.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
July 20 2009 16:48 GMT
#55
On July 21 2009 01:38 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
Tossgirl won cause I liquibetted on her. ;D


But seriously, Reach played really sloppy and Tossgirl pretty well (for her standards), but thinking that Reach dropped this game on purpose is just wrong, and kinda ridiculous.
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
koOl
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada254 Posts
July 20 2009 17:43 GMT
#56
On July 21 2009 00:01 Zzoram wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2009 23:51 JWD wrote:
Reach badly needed this win to advance from his group in SHL...his motivation to win the game was much, much stronger than any motivation to lose it.


Exactly. There was a large cash prize, prestige, and his reputation on the line. No way he meant to lose that game. At the VERY WORST, he may not have fully prepared because he underestimated her, and wasn't fully concentrating early on because of the epic fails he witnessed from her recently. After that, you can blame his slipups to panic.


aye..it makes no sense to lose a match that was do or die in a sense. he needed to win it to get into the finals
hihi
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 18:12:40
July 20 2009 18:11 GMT
#57
On July 20 2009 20:40 konadora wrote:
The whole thing just felt rather sloppy and lazy on Reach's part. It was almost like he didn't really care that much.


Yeah, I don't think the match was a set up. I dunno why such conspiracy theories should even warrant a thread of their own to be honest.

He lost to Tossgirl, yeah so what. He played bad, and she played decently. People are being ridiculousy biased against her because she's a girl.

I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-20 18:14:51
July 20 2009 18:14 GMT
#58
On July 21 2009 01:37 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2009 01:34 Nevuk wrote:
Reach recently lost to tiny in a series. That's far worse, to me, than to lose to tossgirl. At this point, she's only being stigmatized for being female. Tossgirl is basically either at an average b-teamer level or just slightly above it. There are way worse players out there. Cat, for instance is like 0-5 in minor league. (I think he's neo.g.minam now.) Even very good players can lose to b-teamers in bo1 matches, and being in ACE guarantees that Reach might only have 50% of the practice time tossgirl does (she recently mentioned she's practicing 14 hours a day for this tournament, ACE members have 8 hours I think) and might not have as good practice partners. What terrans are on ace? Casy? Cloud?
Ruby is there, but i don't think he's even done with basic yet. I LB tossgirl because I thought she'd be able to take one of the ACE players in this tournament. I do think that tossgirl would benefit from being on a team that actually participates in minor league, though.

Reach losing to Tossgirl isn't really what's upsetting me, it's just how Reach played so bad as compared to when he usually does, as though to throw away the game. Most, if not all his decision making was poor and bad.


Yeah but I bet it upsets you ten times more that he lost to Tossgirl though. I think this thread is a bit awkward to be honest. First of all you're accusing Reach of throwing games, second you make a big deal out of him loosing to a female progamer.
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
July 20 2009 18:36 GMT
#59
Toss girl wins and they immediately go to, "The match was fixed, haha"
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
BisuBoi
Profile Joined February 2009
United States350 Posts
July 20 2009 18:58 GMT
#60
It's not about being a gentleman. The other game was a showmatch! Nothing on the line. Why in hell would Reach throw away an individual league tourney game to make up for a foreigner showmatch? And why would it be compelling evidence to say it's Reach's retirement match? What man do you know says he wants to end his career on a loss?
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