I recently made a comment about the ridiculous nature of western esports companies and received a few PMs imploring me to reveal more details. This is a blog I’ve been thinking of doing for a few months now but wasn’t sure how to do it without hurting relationships but I think I’ve worked out a formula that will provide you with the gory details while still maintaining some level on shadow. I would probably post this in blogs but im using my self appointed freebee to post this in BW instead (maybe i'll move to general instead).
I guess I should introduce this with what I do on Teamliquid. Chill asked me once and my response was “….stuff…I guess”. I don’t write. I can churn out the odd photoshopped image but I’m nowhere near the skill of most of the graphics team. I don’t code – I dream up the odd idea, ask bob if we can do it, hear “no” and then ask another coder to help. What do I do then? I guess I manage. Manage is a pretty loose term and for me it’s been everything from figuring out good choices for staff, rethinking the way do things as a staff, coming up with and shooting down ideas, and the last one which ive taken under my wing is communicating with third parties. You know those guys at companies who you think "lol wtf does that guy even do" - im that guy except i actually do some stuff.
Staff don’t get paid – we do what we do cause we are a) huge nerds with nothing better to do with our time b) stupid and haven’t figured out we should be getting paid c) would rather keep the level of “LOL CHECK DIS YOUTUBE LINK OUT!” and not go all corporate on the community (one of the foundations of what makes this community great imo). As a result we are very protective of the people we represent (you guys), and for me at least feel a sense of pride and duty to make sure as a community we don’t get fucked over by Joe Big Shot with his hundred million dollar investment from venture capitalists. There’s a reason you don’t see TL covered in ads like other BW communities.
We get contacted pretty frequently by third parties via email, msn, PM, IRC etc and for whatever reason I just started responding to a lot of the inquiries we get. Most of them are pretty mundane but some of them are flat out ridiculous. Because im a gossip queen I figure ill let you guys in on some of the dirt that has happened in the last year or so . If you know who these people are or companies are that im talking about id appreciate if you dont make a deal of it - their names aren't really imporant in the context of this blog/ramble/piece.
Situation 1
Last summer we were contacted by a certain company regarding our connection to Korea – they felt they could be an aid Teamliquid in getting interviews with progamers, get more access to items etc etc. They wanted to “share” news with us – basically we would send in a list of 10 questions, they would get the progamer to answer them and then we would both share the news post on our respective sites. I was pretty ambivalent to this idea – probably because I was already jaded by this point but I figured we could at least talk it out.
Me: “What were you looking for in return” Him/Her: “A large banner linked to our site on every single page on Teamliquid” Him/Her: “Lol?….that’s not going to happen” ~insert mumbo about how much of a help they can be to us etc~ At this point we took a step back and I had some time to do a little bit of research and snooping into their business, practices/who they were associated. It was a load of horse shit so I sent them an advertising proposal for a certain amount per month. Him/Her:“Oh I can’t believe this is the way you guys acted…im really surprised….we are just starting I thought you guys could help us L” Me:“I definitely understand the way you feel…it’s just business” Him/Her: “But we are a non profit site” Me: “Umm…you bought XXXX and XXXX for ~3 million$, invested a whack load into your site, have financial backers and you are telling me your are a non profit site? That’s crazy man, I admire you, how do you support a family like that” Him/Her: “…um…yeah I understand what you are saying….its complicated” lol.
The longer version of this includes an hour long msn convo chill had with this person where all they did was insult each other viciously and the person wanted to phone Chill at work lol. DRAAAMAAAA…
Situation 2
Last summer a bunch of us had the chance to go to BWWI in Paris. We had originally planned to have a sit down over dinner and discuss more srs business things like site direction, features we wanted to add etc, but basically it just turned into us getting drunk and looking at pretty French girls.
A certain girl/guy who I had spoken to numerous times online and had helped was at the notorious unofficial-shitface-disaster-after party in the lobby of the hotel where Blizzard had put the progamers. This guy/girl came up introduced him/herself to me so we had a few drinks and he/she asked me to introduce him/her to the other TL members who I knew.
….he/she had brought a list of graphics/writers from TL of ppl he was going to try scalp and when I walked away he went to try recruit. To say the least I was pretty livid with this situation and have done everything in my power to fuck him/her and their organization over ever since.
Side Note: Everyone he/she talked to told him/her to go fuck theirself. Sup.
Situation 3 Guy> Hi Kennigit> Hi sup Guy> Hi are you Kennigit? Kennigit> Yeah who’s this? Guy> Hi im XXX, im the senior associate and executive editor in chief from XXX.com. You may have heard of us Kennigit> nope never heard of it Guy> Oh we are a big esports and WoW site Kennigit> yup never heard of it. Wanna Hear my title? Guy> hmm? Kennigit> Kennigit – Admin who bans kids and does other stuff sometimes, mainly drinks though. Guy> :p Kennigit> so sup Guy> h,mmm well im not sure how to approach this so ill just say it straight Kennigit> Ruh Roh. Ok Guy> You guys have all the best writers so I was wondering if we could have some Kennigit> lol wat Guy> Well you guys have really good coverage so I was wondering if we could approach some of your writers to offer them positions. Kennigit>……hmmm it sounds ok I just have one question Guy> Sure. Kennigit> Are you a fucking donkey? Kennigit> Hey Bill Gates, It’s Steve Jobs phoning up ‘oh sup daug how dem macs.’ “yeah can we hire your engineers cause ours suck Lolool0l0” “hey sure no prab Ll0l00l” “l0l0l0l” Guy> Well I thought I’d ask first Kennigit> You can do what you want but a) you’re a fucking donkey b) All the writers are going to laugh at you and your big baller WoW site.
They all told him to fuck off…don’t think we’ve heard from them again.
Some other randoms tidbits about random shit
That TV station…RussiaToday I think…yeah they are doing a special on gaming addiction in Korea and wanted contacts to teams and players in Korea lol.
- The new Front Page took over a year from the day the idea was posted till the day it was release. - TLPD took like 4-5 months and included a 20 page design document and weeks of preliminary work
- TSL took 3 weeks…lol
- Some Teamliquid staff have clauses that if incontrol of dronebabo are ever made mods that they will quit immediately – I think they’d both be awesome mods.
- Razer are cool guys/girls. Their CEO has a TL account and is a hardcore gamer– what a baller.
- I always get pissed off at Blizzard because they try to be fair by treating all their fan sites (in RTS) the same. That means that donkeyasssc2bestfriendsl0lheresmysc2site.com gets the “same” number of tickets to blizzcon as us or Gosugamers who pull in a billion hits in free advertising per day. In the same breath they have always been super cool with letting have free reign to do what we like (TSL etc) and despite the heart ache that MBS has caused, i think the feedback system if pretty baller
- If we get the same number of beta keys as donkey start up sites im going to ragequit my life lol. Fuck it, Stimey you take over.
- Despite being the largest SC esports site I think we have one of the most silent relationships with Blizzard – I know LoA talks to the top blizzard guys a hell of a lot more than I do (read 0 times…except when I saw samwise in the subway in paris and peed my pants).
- Blizzard always hides the list of progamers attending Blizzcon/Wwi until the very last minute which gives us zero time to fanboy it up with cheerfuls etc. Usually theres a secret staff campaign at least 2 weeks before to infiltrate and figure out who is going – We have a pretty good track record so far.
- Karune is awesome. If I send him a question that he doesn’t know the answer too or he’s too busy he doesn’t reply. So one day I followed up my question by trolling with “oh yeah we are talking about selling beta keys for cost, is that ok with you guys?”…he immediately appeared to tell me no hehe…then disappeared back into the void.
- An independent study by a certain Korean company shows that TL is the biggest BW site in the world. Sup!
- I was sitting in a starbucks one day like a trendy college hipster donk and saw some guy go walking by in a TL shirt…when I went outside he was gone L
- I was going to write all about the SC2GG drama cause it’s so awesome but I think most of it is public as is.
- Even though he constantly jokes about leaking MiR (men in red – staff forum) to various “enemies” of Teamliquid, and about starting his own site to destroy TL we still allow rekrul to access MiR.
- Seeing MiR is literally the biggest let down in one’s Teamliquid career…seriously its only boring shit lol
What was I writing about before? Oh yeah lol western esports companies and why they are so fucked and useless. Basically what I’ve learned from having interacted with a good majority of these people/companies is that they got there via the following reasons/processes.
1) A small site starts up 2) Play a game like BW/CS 1.6/WoW and get to the equiv of c+/B- 3) They suck too much to become a pro player so they figure they will get into the industry 4) They decide the company is going to be fucking awesome and the “next big thing” in esports 5) They go to moores and rent a cheap suit 6) They go meet some venture capitalists and compare their financial potential to massive esports companies in korea or china 7) The VCs bite and invest way too much money cause they are idiots and don’t realize that guy they are investing in is actually some US East kid with an MBA. 8) Instead of sticking to their community roots they start acting like idiots and invest their capital into bullshit projects that are easy and no one really cares about. They figure they can generate a bunch of revenue short term to impress the investor and gain the confidence for further investment
Seriously some guy contacted us and in the first 10 minutes told me he had an MBA…he also used to play games like 10 years ago and was at the top of Diablo or Wc3 ladder or something when it first came out. I don’t think you’ve ever heard of this site and probably never will.
This is the vicious cycle and why most recently you’ve seen a lot of these companies suddenly go from “very successful” to going under in a couple days or dropping all of their successful Players and teams (cough Moon). It has nothing to do with the recession/economic “climate”. Esports firms have used this as an excuse to drop teams, but the real reason is that they ignored the costs and brushed their financial diligence aside in order to take a 1 in a million risk that they could be profitable. Esports is not profitable (yet). If you get into it to make millions of dollars you are fucking dead.
The only thing western esports needs is 1 consolidated body. EPL ESWC CPL CGS – honestly, despite the attention these companies get at the time no one remembers when they die the next day…..Do you think people would notice if the NFL died tomorrow? Now what if there were 12 NFLs. All these donkey ass companies get headed by a guy/girl who has played guitar hero and did their MBA – ching ching time to run a company bro! Western Esports simply wont work without consolidation. Stop wasting millions on silly projects, Just buy everyone else with some capital and become massive – then you can’t be ignored. If someone could legitimately get this started and not pull an Angel Muneoz then maybe we’d a legitimate organization and not one that runs an event once a month.
CGS sort of had the right idea but once again with some donkey MBA at the helm they chose games that don’t have a solid hardcore base and bit the dust.
How does this relate to TL.
TL can never die. We have no overhead. We can fuck around and post what we like (actually we have rules so we cant post what we like L ) and as long as we deliver then you guys are happy which makes us happy and then we deliver some more (we’ll deliver again in the next few days). We have had semi serious talks about “going pro” but to be honest the level of intelligence of people who have “gone pro” is astronomically low. Until the last 6 months I’ve have only ever laughed at sites who tried to compete with us because no matter how much money and investment they have, if they don’t have some wits then the game is already over – if they did have that wit, they’d probably be working with us in the first place.
There was a period of a few months where we got worried about sites competing with us but as much as I hate to admit it, Fakesteve was right when he rudely told us we were fucking idiots and that we should shutup and not worry about it. Fuck you steve.
What a fucking rant.
Oh ill answer any drama questions or other questions you have….unless you work for some esports company and then you can go bite a big knob.
Kennigit> Are you a fucking donkey? Kennigit> Hey Bill Gates, It’s Steve Jobs phoning up ‘oh sup daug how dem macs.’ “yeah can we hire your engineers cause ours suck Lolool0l0” “hey sure no prab Ll0l00l” “l0l0l0l” Guy> Well I thought I’d ask first
Very cool blog kennigit. I've been a casual member of the community for quite some time and it's nice to hear about what kind of stuff goes on in the inside.
Guy> Hi Kennigit> Hi sup Guy> Hi are you Kennigit? Kennigit> Yeah who’s this? Guy> Hi im XXX, im the senior associate and executive editor in chief from XXX.com. You may have heard of us Kennigit> nope never heard of it Guy> Oh we are a big esports and WoW site Kennigit> yup never heard of it. Wanna Hear my title? Guy> hmm? Kennigit> Kennigit – Admin who bans kids and does other stuff sometimes, mainly drinks though. Guy> Kennigit> so sup Guy> h,mmm well im not sure how to approach this so ill just say it straight Kennigit> Ruh Roh. Ok Guy> You guys have all the best writers so I was wondering if we could have some Kennigit> lol wat [b]Guy> Well you guys have really good coverage so I was wondering if we could approach some of your writers to offer them positions. Kennigit>……hmmm it sounds ok I just have one question [b]Guy> Sure. Kennigit> Are you a fucking donkey? Kennigit> Hey Bill Gates, It’s Steve Jobs phoning up ‘oh sup daug how dem macs.’ “yeah can we hire your engineers cause ours suck Lolool0l0” “hey sure no prab Ll0l00l” “l0l0l0l” Guy> Well I thought I’d ask first Kennigit> You can do what you want but a) you’re a fucking donkey b) All the writers are going to laugh at you and your big baller WoW site.
That person didn't really do a good job of asking for writers lol. "Hey can I have some of your writers who make amazing threads and are part of the backbone of your site?" I mean what could he expect as an answer?
Thanks for that post it was pretty cool. I never realized the amount of competition that existed nor did I appreciate the quality of people we have here at TL. nicee!
TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
Wow thanks Kennigit. Very interesting,Its fascinating to get a glimpse behind the curtains.
If you need anything (not asking for any special treatment) Id love to help out in anyway that I may be able to.Even if its cleaning dust out of your computer ^_^
1) is there a grand scheme for TL? what happens if SC / SC2 dies? might be like 10+ years
- Nobody is thinking that far down the line, but if that happened, there is enough talent on TL to turn it into a global professional organization. See the TL Manpower thread for the beginnings of that.
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
LOLOL roflpwned
he might have bit, I would have said 100 million dollars just to be safe
On February 25 2009 10:01 Manifesto7 wrote: 1) is there a grand scheme for TL? what happens if SC / SC2 dies? might be like 10+ years
- Nobody is thinking that far down the line, but if that happened, there is enough talent on TL to turn it into a global professional organization. See the TL Manpower thread for the beginnings of that.
2) who legally owns TL?
Nazgul and Meat own the domain and pay the rent.
Are there any plans of taking the american SC scene professionally? (TL becomes synonymous with Western e-sports? O_O)
Basically our position has been that we will follow the highest levels of professional BW/SC2...if thats in Korea, then we will follow Korea. If its in the west then we will cover the west.
It isn't all negative though. During the TSL, the German company ESL came and made a fine proposition. They wanted to recast the TSL in German. Razer had no problems with that, and didn't even ask for exposure there (although they might next time).
It was a totally drama free and friendly relationship. We sent the reps over to ESL after the games, they waited until after our broadcast, and chose the games they wanted to show. It got the TL name out and set up a nice working relationship.
Kennigit is right. There are a lot of people trying to soak up a few short term bucks off any scene, instead of building something long term. We see how well that has worked out for the most part.
However, there are a lot of cool people that can do things either for free or while getting paid. Money isn't the main issue, it is intent.
weren't they trying to poach graphics guys off us as well earlier without consulting us? Or was that the other guys... i can't remember haha
to the guy above me 1) no idea, we'll just be an angry online community ranting about how things use to be better in the past and how games reached their peak in 1998 2) Nazgul and Meat
On February 25 2009 10:01 Manifesto7 wrote: 1) is there a grand scheme for TL? what happens if SC / SC2 dies? might be like 10+ years
- Nobody is thinking that far down the line, but if that happened, there is enough talent on TL to turn it into a global professional organization. See the TL Manpower thread for the beginnings of that.
2) who legally owns TL?
Nazgul and Meat own the domain and pay the rent.
Are there any plans of taking the american SC scene professionally? (TL becomes synonymous with Western e-sports? O_O)
I'm with Chill. I think we should buy a bus, fit it out with comps, and have a TL.net SC2 mobile LAN party. Just hit up all the cities along the coast and zig zag N. America. That would be fun as hell.
I wonder if my wife wants to live on a video game bus for 6 months...
TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
ROOOOOOFL
This thread is amazing. I love reading about these things. Really surprised at how ignorant these folks are for approaching you guys the way they did.
lol wow this community is stronger than anyone imagined, so proud to be a part of it
I have so many questions lol
1) who's made the biggest bid to take over TL so far 2) which organization are we friendliest with at the moment
the ESL group sounds so ethical compared to the other chumps. things like this will remain in my head for a long time. ESL just got bumped up in my respect rating even though I don't know what they do
btw i think Him/Her: “Lol?….that’s not going to happen” should be 'Me' instead of 'Him/Her'?;D oh and there was some sentence with lots of him/her but then a couple of just 'him'
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
On February 25 2009 10:10 StRyKeR wrote: 1) who's made the biggest bid to take over TL so far
Nobody has made a really serious bid. The value we assign TL as members, and the value percieved by people from the outside for a site that looks like craigslist v.2 (sorry coders >.<) is so far apart that it is ridiculous.
2) which organization are we friendliest with at the moment
We are an incestuous bunch here at TL. iccup is pretty awesome though.
Yeah the ESL guys are awesome. I think the reason for this is that they don't take themselves too too serious - i mean that in a good way. You see the two german BW commentators and even if you dont speak german you know that they are just chilling having a good time and casting some games for you. I think they were probably the easiest ppl to work with.
Yeah like Mani said iCCUp is awesome but they are pretty community based like us.
Stryker 1) i have no idea. I don't want to get too money money because Meat and Naz deal with that stuff and wrt TL as a business i dont even worry about it. 2) I'd say we are friendly with most organizations. The korean teams that we talk to are really good - Sean Oh at CJ is a really great guy and helped us ALOT with the CJ shirts and charity auction. Same with Coach Lee @ MBC. The reason they are good is because they work for big companies with strong leadership. I find the leadership in western esports firms to be particularly weak.
On February 25 2009 09:59 FuDDx wrote: Wow thanks Kennigit. Very interesting,Its fascinating to get a glimpse behind the curtains.
If you need anything (not asking for any special treatment) Id love to help out in anyway that I may be able to.Even if its cleaning dust out of your computer ^_^
Dude just keep posting blog pictures of bears in trees and im happy hahaha
2) I'd say we are friendly with most organizations. The korean teams that we talk to are really good - Sean Oh at CJ is a really great guy and helped us ALOT with the CJ shirts and charity auction. Same with Coach Lee @ MBC. The reason they are good is because they work for big companies with strong leadership. I find the leadership in western esports firms to be particularly weak.
oh shit so could we just send random fan cheerfuls and stuff to Sean Oh?!?!?!
Awesome thread. I'm not surprised to hear that about ESL, I watched some of their WoW and CS 1.6 broadcasts a couple months ago and the commentators were pretty awesome. Except they were from the UK I think, not Germany. Although I did catch some intermittent German commentary from them showing FIFA 09 (or whatever year they use) matches)..
2) I'd say we are friendly with most organizations. The korean teams that we talk to are really good - Sean Oh at CJ is a really great guy and helped us ALOT with the CJ shirts and charity auction. Same with Coach Lee @ MBC. The reason they are good is because they work for big companies with strong leadership. I find the leadership in western esports firms to be particularly weak.
oh shit so could we just send random fan cheerfuls and stuff to Sean Oh?!?!?!
You could, but you would be competing with official fanclubs and legions of adolecent girls.
On February 25 2009 10:21 Kennigit wrote: Yeah the ESL guys are awesome. I think the reason for this is that they don't take themselves too too serious - i mean that in a good way. You see the two german BW commentators and even if you dont speak german you know that they are just chilling having a good time and casting some games for you. I think they were probably the easiest ppl to work with.
Yeah like Mani said iCCUp is awesome but they are pretty community based like us.
Stryker 1) i have no idea. I don't want to get too money money because Meat and Naz deal with that stuff and wrt TL as a business i dont even worry about it. 2) I'd say we are friendly with most organizations. The korean teams that we talk to are really good - Sean Oh at CJ is a really great guy and helped us ALOT with the CJ shirts and charity auction. Same with Coach Lee @ MBC. The reason they are good is because they work for big companies with strong leadership. I find the leadership in western esports firms to be particularly weak.
LOL at the Coach Lee, best TL-attack yet with Sea (side note- we should get Coach Lee to play in TL-attack ). It's nice to see that TL's owner's/staff are so dedicated to the site.
2) I'd say we are friendly with most organizations. The korean teams that we talk to are really good - Sean Oh at CJ is a really great guy and helped us ALOT with the CJ shirts and charity auction. Same with Coach Lee @ MBC. The reason they are good is because they work for big companies with strong leadership. I find the leadership in western esports firms to be particularly weak.
oh shit so could we just send random fan cheerfuls and stuff to Sean Oh?!?!?!
You could, but you would be competing with official fanclubs and legions of adolecent girls.
yea but TL is liek the official fanclub from the west / everywhere outside of korea haha ah well just hope i can go to a blizzcon or something one day ;d
2) I'd say we are friendly with most organizations. The korean teams that we talk to are really good - Sean Oh at CJ is a really great guy and helped us ALOT with the CJ shirts and charity auction. Same with Coach Lee @ MBC. The reason they are good is because they work for big companies with strong leadership. I find the leadership in western esports firms to be particularly weak.
oh shit so could we just send random fan cheerfuls and stuff to Sean Oh?!?!?!
You could, but you would be competing with official fanclubs and legions of adolecent girls.
I think we could sneak a few on via the novelty of foreign fans
On February 25 2009 10:10 StRyKeR wrote: 1) who's made the biggest bid to take over TL so far
Nobody has made a really serious bid. The value we assign TL as members, and the value percieved by people from the outside for a site that looks like craigslist v.2 (sorry coders >.<) is so far apart that it is ridiculous.
Woah Pachi never new you were now a "MiR" was a nice read, I appreciate all the work our coders, arts team and men in red do around the forums. I also enjoy Rekrul and his love for gossip.
I do have a question though, what sparked all of the Stimey stuff. I have read his "Mods in heat" blog and I had no clue what he was talking about (Mind you I had been up for 23 hours and just browsed over it.) But if there is anything you could tell me about it I would love to have that information.
Also I love the Ban Thread so entertaining reading through it, it took me ages to get to the latest page but I am caught up now and I check it whenever I log onto TL.
Thanks for all the work from the staff and I look forward to that island in the corner of the world when we come to that point. Also the mobile lan sounds like a sweet idea =P.
Edit: Oh and sorry if this is obvious but I searched and couldn't find a icon change thread so I was wondering if I could have mine changed to a hydralisk? (My favorite starcraft unit I was disappointed at 1k posts )
I have a funny story, one where someone PM'd me wanting to be a caster for TSL, and when i asked him for some samples, he linked me to YouTube vids of Klazart. Now obviously, this guy was not Klazart, but it was hilarious to think what was going through his head. Would we notice that he wasn't an Irish guy who spoke really fast? Did he know that Klazart used to be a member here?
So I'm like "you're Klazart?" And he's like "yes i am, i'm surprised you haven't heard of me." LOL
On February 25 2009 11:39 Hot_Bid wrote: I have a funny story, one where someone PM'd me wanting to be a caster for TSL, and when i asked him for some samples, he linked me to YouTube vids of Klazart. Now obviously, this guy was not Klazart, but it was hilarious to think what was going through his head. Would we notice that he wasn't an Irish guy who spoke really fast? Did he know that Klazart used to be a member here?
So I'm like "you're Klazart?" And he's like "yes i am, i'm surprised you haven't heard of me." LOL
Damn, lost chance- and to think that we could have had klaz cast the TSL
On February 25 2009 09:59 FuDDx wrote: Wow thanks Kennigit. Very interesting,Its fascinating to get a glimpse behind the curtains.
If you need anything (not asking for any special treatment) Id love to help out in anyway that I may be able to.Even if its cleaning dust out of your computer ^_^
Dude just keep posting blog pictures of bears in trees and im happy hahaha
On February 25 2009 11:00 d(O.o)a wrote: Edit: Oh and sorry if this is obvious but I searched and couldn't find a icon change thread so I was wondering if I could have mine changed to a hydralisk? (My favorite starcraft unit I was disappointed at 1k posts )
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
not necessarily, the companies that go corporate tend to be run by people in it just for easy money and the like, of course stuff run by people like that isnt gonna turn out well. if teamliquid went corporate and kept the same management, and they were self aware about it, it wouldnt have to turn out the same way.
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
what exactly is "going corporate"?
All staff would be required to browse the site in a suit and tie.
Thank you for this. I get frustrated with the signal to noise ratio of the forums on TL sometimes but it's easy to forget that TL really is an amazing thing. <3 TL and the staff that make it possible
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
what exactly is "going corporate"?
All staff would be required to browse the site in a suit and tie.
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
what exactly is "going corporate"?
In the way of purposely trying to make profits at all times, not all corporations would do this, I suppose. I should have put "corporate" in quotes. I'll probably edit this post b/c I know I'm not making much sense lol. EDIT: Yeah, I guess IdrA extended what I initially intended to say.
On February 25 2009 13:03 mijellin wrote: interesting stuff =)
would love to be enlightened on sc2gg/tl drama
This boils down to when Bazzei felt like he was being insulted here on TL.net over some racial remark. TL.net told him it wasn't and to calm down. Radivel, owner of SC2GG, invited Bazzi to his site and to work (for free) for him during Bazzei/TL.net negotiations. TL.net interpreted that as a slimey backstabbing thing to do. Hatred ensued.
That's the VERY watered down version of that story.
The other thing was the whole Klazart thing and when he quit (banned? Can't remember) TL.net over people telling him he was stupid/bad SC player/bad caster. Everybody acted like a little girl and held grudges. I thought Klaz should have accepted the advice or ignored it however he wanted but retaliating like he did was not the way to go.
There might be a few other things I'm missing.
Of course I did the offensive GG against RaGe during our Showmatch and then proceeded to fail at everything. By the way I think Rage and I should do our own showmatch. Bo7 and see if I have improved at SC at all. ^^ Oh yeah. I did mention this to DV during the Showmatch as well. I don't think he likes me either. Scroll down a few comments on the link.
Oh and WC8 said he could hack TL.net and I don't think anybody has really forgotten that either. Good times. Good times.
We have good history too. A few of us from SC2GG did a few casts for TSL and other small events like when Chill did a Bo7 vs Cholera.
On February 25 2009 13:26 IdrA wrote: extended? i contradicted you
lol idk what's wrong with me today. You contradicted what I said, because what I said was wrong and I really meant to say something else. You said what I meant to say, that things would stay the same if in the right hands. It extended what I said, which was that things would go bad, except that I made an over-generalization. .....let's just drop it because I'm confusing myself ^_^
On February 25 2009 13:03 mijellin wrote: interesting stuff =)
would love to be enlightened on sc2gg/tl drama
This boils down to when Bazzei felt like he was being insulted here on TL.net over some racial remark. TL.net told him it wasn't and to calm down. Radivel, owner of SC2GG, invited Bazzi to his site and to work (for free) for him during Bazzei/TL.net negotiations. TL.net interpreted that as a slimey backstabbing thing to do. Hatred ensued.
That's the VERY watered down version of that story.
Yeah there was some random thread about rape statistics in Asian countries, Baezzi thought the OP was anti-korean (it wasn't, but it'd be easy to misconstrue) and got mad, and we had translation problems when trying to straighten it out. Radivel intentionally fueled the fire, turning Baezzi against us even further, and Mani retaliated with some harsh words (one in particular!)
Also when Mani's comments (which weren't public) were leaked, Kuro claimed his buddy hacked TL lol
"Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though."
This boils down to when Bazzei felt like he was being insulted here on TL.net over some racial remark. TL.net told him it wasn't and to calm down. Radivel, owner of SC2GG, invited Bazzi to his site and to work (for free) for him during Bazzei/TL.net negotiations. TL.net interpreted that as a slimey backstabbing thing to do. Hatred ensued.
That's the VERY watered down version of that story.
The other thing was the whole Klazart thing and when he quit (banned? Can't remember) TL.net over people telling him he was stupid/bad SC player/bad caster. Everybody acted like a little girl and held grudges. I thought Klaz should have accepted the advice or ignored it however he wanted but retaliating like he did was not the way to go.
There might be a few other things I'm missing.
Of course I did the offensive GG against RaGe during our Showmatch and then proceeded to fail at everything. By the way I think Rage and I should do our own showmatch. Bo7 and see if I have improved at SC at all. ^^ Oh yeah. I did mention this to DV during the Showmatch as well. I don't think he likes me either. Scroll down a few comments on the link.
Oh and WC8 said he could hack TL.net and I don't think anybody has really forgotten that either. Good times. Good times.
We have good history too. A few of us from SC2GG did a few casts for TSL and other small events like when Chill did a Bo7 vs Cholera.
Don't forget them stealing the Corinthos streams to their forums/IRC channel without permission from Corinthos.
edit: what the fuck was I thinking a year ago quoting a huge ass post like that fuck me
Ahh. That wasn't staff (I don't think so anyways), those were normal users (Pretty sure) sharing it around. I won't deny that we (Staff) didn't use it though. That was a big bad on our part for not asking permission.
Oh yeah, there was that one graphics kid we had that stole all your banners. We kicked him from staff after that.
On February 25 2009 13:03 mijellin wrote: interesting stuff =)
would love to be enlightened on sc2gg/tl drama
This boils down to when Bazzei felt like he was being insulted here on TL.net over some racial remark. TL.net told him it wasn't and to calm down. Radivel, owner of SC2GG, invited Bazzi to his site and to work (for free) for him during Bazzei/TL.net negotiations. TL.net interpreted that as a slimey backstabbing thing to do. Hatred ensued.
That's the VERY watered down version of that story.
Yeah there was some random thread about rape statistics in Asian countries, Baezzi thought the OP was anti-korean (it wasn't, but it'd be easy to misconstrue) and got mad, and we had translation problems when trying to straighten it out. Radivel intentionally fueled the fire, turning Baezzi against us even further, and Mani retaliated with some harsh words (one in particular!)
Also when Mani's comments (which weren't public) were leaked, Kuro claimed his buddy hacked TL lol
Good times!
The op = Super Saiyan Japanese Big Boss Overseer Hajime Murakami-kun
I always thought the hosting fees would be astronomical.
Google ads would only pay for a small fraction of that, which means that liquid or meat must have forked out a crapload of they own dole to keep the site running for all these years?
Commendable post - very good. I could actually spend a very long time responding to a lot of different aspects of what you've written, and what other people have replied, and the best part of it is that none of it would involve the dramarama, all of it would involve the processes and descriptions of what you do here. (or did here, f your job interferes with your activities on TL?)
What do I do then? I guess I manage. Manage is a pretty loose term and for me it’s been everything from figuring out good choices for staff, rethinking the way do things as a staff, coming up with and shooting down ideas, and the last one which ive taken under my wing is communicating with third parties.
This especially hit home, as it's basically me, right there. I suppose I'll ask you a question - what is the heirarchy or structure of the TL staff? If that's discussable, that is.
At SC2GG, the various teams (news, graphics, projects, etc) are somewhat autonomous from me, personally. They can do what they please, they have a team leader, they interact with each other and so on. I will step in and veto things before they get off the ground if I feel that they're not worthwhile, but for the most part, everything is entirely democratic. Everyone has fun, and they can all do whatever they like, we aren't without issues - what place is? - but they are resolved between staff amiably for the most part.
Mostly, I spend my time answering questions and keeping people focused. I take all inquiries. Do you? When someone talks to TL, are you the first point of contact? Do you have autonomy to do as you please? How long have you been here, at TL? It's sure funny how much you learn just by doing this "job" at the site, isn't it.. everything you do on a daily basis teaches you more and more about dealing with, well, everything. I'm fairly certain that if I had as much experience now as I did back in May, there wouldn't have been an excuse to hate.
Another point I have to comment on is the corporate attitude of websites, and everything you say is very, very true regarding the effect is has on the members, community, and everything that anyone on the site does. SC2GG is a company, and while money will eventually become a factor within the site, I'm never going to let it act like that's the reason for the site to exist. Example being advertisements are presently non-existant and I pay for everything, and while some ads will be added someday, the focus of the site will never be to make millions. Like you, people come calling to me to get in on the action. Sometimes I humor myself and say to them, "Why don't you go talk to TL.net? They're way bigger than SC2GG!". I know the answer before I say the statement, and I know the answer that TL would give them, no harm is meant, just a way to tell them I'm not interested.
The focus will always remain enjoyment of members. I applaud TL for approaching things that way, as well. It's the way that it should be, and all websites should take note - think like this, and you'll be better off in the long run. Trust me.
Nicely written. Respect is due where earned. This is the best post I've ever seen on TL.
This especially hit home, as it's basically me, right there. I suppose I'll ask you a question - what is the heirarchy or structure of the TL staff? If that's discussable, that is.
I can answer this one.
Initially with TL (and when I joined) it was rule by commitee. There were not enough projects/staff members to have it another way. The only two major things were moderation and news. News was handled by a few people, and was easy since it was mostly text. Moderation was handled individually, but as a team. By this I mean people were themselves, but anything questionable was discussed by everyone. There was only one staff forum.
Over the past couple years as TL has evolved (and as staff left/retired) there have been greater numbers of people involved with running things. Now we have a "writers team" and at the beginning of each pro season people step up to cover a specific league (lasts about 4 months). They may or may not be "staff" in terms of the coloured names. Plexa is the leader. There is also a graphics team now, because TL has become more image oriented (and because the writers can't make images for shit. Just look at my Xellos FE). They also may or may not be staff. Pachi leads this. These two teams generally make requests of one another.
There are moderators who do not work on projects or write, but moderate the boards. They are promoted from within based on terms and length of service. Their names are in red.
There is a group of members that are admins. They essentially make longer range plans and projects. They also include the coders because they can make stuff, and they generally advise whether a project is possible / realistic under TL's old architecture. Kennigit is one of these guys. Basically they are managers in the spirit of what the whole staff was when we weren't so big. Because of this rule by commitee, we don't move fast at all (as hinted at by hotbid) :p
Hopefully that is clear. I think the best way to sum it up is by MasterofChaos' comment upon being staff:
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
On February 25 2009 15:51 Manifesto7 wrote: Because of this rule by commitee, we don't move fast at all (as hinted at by hotbid) :p
This is a feeling I am absolutely familiar with, and if I had a whole bunch of money to spend on things, working towards helping to improve things in this area would be near the top of my list of corrections. Cmon Venture Capitalists, where are you?!
Well, that is what happens with all volunteers. While it is often needed, it is hard to give orders. Suggestions are sometimes fulfilled and sometimes aren't, but if everyone is doing it for free and joy, how can you say anything? In addition, because there is no real "ranking", just different areas of responsibilities, everyone's voice is equal.
Except for hot_bid. He just yells at people all day on msn.
One would wonder though, if people were being paid, would it be much more efficient? Would the quality of work refelect the volunteer mentality or the paycheck? These are things I wrestle with when thinking about dollars and cents.
On February 25 2009 16:13 Manifesto7 wrote: Well, that is what happens with all volunteers. While it is often needed, it is hard to give orders. Suggestions are sometimes fulfilled and sometimes aren't, but if everyone is doing it for free and joy, how can you say anything? In addition, because there is no real "ranking", just different areas of responsibilities, everyone's voice is equal.
Except for hot_bid. He just yells at people all day on msn.
One would wonder though, if people were being paid, would it be much more efficient? Would the quality of work refelect the volunteer mentality or the paycheck? These are things I wrestle with when thinking about dollars and cents.
i'm the real one in charge, whenever its decision time, you guys come running to me, whether you realize it or not
On February 25 2009 16:13 Manifesto7 wrote: Well, that is what happens with all volunteers. While it is often needed, it is hard to give orders. Suggestions are sometimes fulfilled and sometimes aren't, but if everyone is doing it for free and joy, how can you say anything?
This is exactly the inner dilemma that I face on a constant basis. Thankfully, there are things like staff evaluations and open minds...
One would wonder though, if people were being paid, would it be much more efficient? Would the quality of work refelect the volunteer mentality or the paycheck? These are things I wrestle with when thinking about dollars and cents.
A prominent member of SC2GG and friend of mine needed some money, and became a writer for a site that pays people for content called Insider ESports, and I made quite clear my views on what I thought of the site. They aren't good - in my mind it's a jumbled mess that doesn't encourage people to stay there. Spending all your time finding things vs doing/reading/experiencing things is a bad way to run a site, and the sites stats reflect that.
Eventually, my friend stated that it wasn't working out for him and left after a couple months, because of the amount of work they wanted him to do vs the pay he received.
It really seems to me that this is the effect you will achieve - a soulless feeling, people not doing things because they care about them will result in less enthusiastic work all around, and generally a worse result overall.
Of course, this doesn't apply to something like ESPN where they're paid to do a full time job. It seems to me that the level is what matters here. At some point, joy and enjoyment are defeated by the chance to have a life and make a living, I guess. Makes sense...
If we could pay people full time, then I think the payment / motivation problem disappears for sure. But for part time or non-regular work, I think it is just what you describe. I mean, 1k isn't going to be enough for any of our regular staff to drop their life and run a TSL 8 hours a day for 10 weeks. It needs to be a fulltime thing, and even then, doing something as a job may be different than doing something as a hobby to relax after your job. (Or doing something while you are at your job when you should be working... *shifty eyes*)
On February 25 2009 16:29 Manifesto7 wrote: (Or doing something while you are at your job when you should be working... *shifty eyes*)
The whole reason SC2GG exists is because my job is based around 12 hr shifts, much of the time overnights, and what I do is monitor things. Once, I managed to watch 11 episodes of Heroes in a single shift. I have endless paid time at work to do things that are website-related. Annoyingly, it's getting more busy lately, haha, and actual work has been cutting into my website time a couple hours more a day than previously.. damn work, interrupting my website time...
Did you guys forget about TSL2? I want more foreigners events of that magnitude, that was amazing
and what happened to "ESPN WAS LOOKING INTO TSL"? Not just hype, right?
I guess I'm kind of a volunteer in a small way, I've reported 2 security holes to Bob that could've let someone "malicious" like worldcommunist to do bad things. Bob got them fixed EXTREMELY FAST (like within hours). I have got to commend him for that, all the sites i've reported holes in, Teamliquid by far has the fastest and most correct response, he knows his stuff. Good security work through and through. Other sites i've had to sit there and explain the problem and then see their "fix" that's not really a fix and just an idiotic non-fix etc.
On February 17 2009 15:08 Hot_Bid wrote: The To-Do List found it's way to the unlikeliest of creatures...a writer, named Mensrea Baggins.
I think in this analogy Plexa would be Frodo, as he adds the most to the To-Do List hence hiding it from your power. His best friend is Daigomi, loyal and headstrong, who i salso from some weird country. Other than Plexodo and Samgomi are joined by GTR and pachi, both of whom are underrated in their impact on Middle-Earth (getting the Ents to fight = updating calendar and TLPD, because the work was slow, tedious, but ultimately critical in the war). I think this goes without saying but GTR is Pippin and pachi is Merry, lol.
R1CH is Gandalf, who we thought was dead (DotA) but will return when we need him the most. He was all like YOU SHALL NOT PASS to that shitty Bnet lag for 1.16. intrigue is Legolas, obsessed with being girly, cute, and having ridiculous ban / obs micro when its needed. Gimli (sp?) is Chill, who is ill-tempered and of course, literally a dwarf.
Manifesto7 is Aragorn, who is older than he looks, has a beard, and is married to a woman of a different race. Manigorn went into exile for a while and finally returned to lead his people to freedom. He has wisdom and his speeches inspire a lot of people so everyone kind of listens, even though his voice is way too nasally during that RotK speech, so he tries to speak as low as possible from now on like Christian Bale in Batman, what a faker. Pop is that elf guy who makes the sword (TLPD) with which Aragorn will call on the dead (progamers).
Saro would be Agent Smith Elf, who knew all in the beginning but retired to the immortal place after seeing the war coming. Emlary is that older elf chick who has a ring too (old school VOD updater) and that other elf dude with a ring is TopTalent or ilovecats (not the Agent Smith Elf, the other one). They gave Plexa, Samgomi, and the other hobbits writers the tools they need.
FrozenArbiter is that big burly guy whos the Rohan King's son, he rapes all the trolls in the SC2 forum and is from Sweden. Last Romantic is that dead skeletal dwarf they found writing that book "they are coming... they are coming..." about the dwarfs last stand. The dwarfs = YellOw, Reach, and the rest of the old guard, and LR is just sitting with them, clutching to his heart forever the hope that they will return. Instead they are raped by all those orcs and that huge flaming dude who of course is Incontrol.
Baezzi is Boromir, who started down the right path but the To-Do List's power corrupted him and he turned bad. He tried to take the List from Plexa and ended up dying. Corinthos is his brother Faramir (sp?), who told to hold the river outpost keep the streams going when Baezzoromir died, which he did valiantly and almost sacrificed himself to do it. We appreciate your effort Corinthos, you will eventually get to marry that cute Rohan chick who knows how to ride. Sure, she digs Mani more (who wouldn't), but hey, not bad right?
SonuvBob as already stated is Sauron, that big beastly neck snapping orc who rapes Boromir in Fellowship is Kennigit, that troll who rides that wofl thing who takes Aragorn over the cliff is Hot_Bid, and the Nazgul are led by Nazgul (lol). I guess any other Liquid` guys make up the rest of the Ringwraiths, who used to ride horses (see the banner above), an analogy for StarCraft, but now have much cooler rides (those flying thingys) which they bought with poker money. Rekrul isn't a Nazgul but is rather Shelob, bent on entrapping poor progamers in his web when they walk the path of night path of that tower thing (cirith-something?). He gives us gossip from Korea, he knows all this stuff nobody else does (hence Shelob, the spider, Varys, asoiaf reference for those in the know, George R.R. Martin Game of Thrones read it suckas). Lol Daigomi fucks you up Rek, owned.
That guy who whispered all the shit into Rohan's ear is of course Puertorican, who when discovered is kicked out of Men in Rohan. Puertorican digs that Rohan warrior girl really badly but she finds him disgusting and creepy, this is probably a pretty good microcosm of his entire life.
Lastly, Smeagol is Stimey, Gollum is mitsy, I don't think I have to explain this one.
On February 25 2009 16:13 Manifesto7 wrote: One would wonder though, if people were being paid, would it be much more efficient? Would the quality of work refelect the volunteer mentality or the paycheck? These are things I wrestle with when thinking about dollars and cents.
Based on my own experience, I can try to guess what would happen to two different kinds of people in this situation.
The first kind are the ones who truly love the volunteer work they're doing. As a volunteer, they'll probably be less productive because maybe a new game came out that they're really excited about and so it consumes their mind for a while. Or maybe they're temporarily out of good ideas so they stop working for a while. As a paid worker in these situations, either they'll just take a break like they normally would, or they'll feel obligated to be productive and end up producing lower-quality work.
I've personally done the latter while being paid (doing rushed, low quality work for the sake of being productive, rather than taking a much-needed break to think things over), and I've almost done it even while working for free (but thankfully my laziness stopped me ). The former is what I hope to do in the future.
The second kind are the ones who used to love what they're doing, or thought they would love it, but currently their heart just isn't in it. As a volunteer, they continue to work anyway out of a feeling of obligation to carry out a job they volunteered for. But either they're not very productive, or their quality of work isn't great. As a paid worker, they'd probably feel even more of an obligation to continue working on stuff they aren't very excited about. And they'd probably try to be as productive as the guys whose hearts are in their work, inevitably at the expense of quality.
This is the situation I was in when I was writing for TL. By the time I realized I wasn't going to be the next mensrea and should just hang up the keyboard, our battle reports were already low in number and getting lower each month, adding even more pressure on me to keep at it. (Adding to the embarassment of knowing you're going to have to quit.) I'm glad I wasn't getting paid to do that, 'cause lord knows how much longer it would've taken me to fizzle out and move on to areas where my heart really was.
On February 25 2009 17:07 anotak wrote: Did you guys forget about TSL2? I want more foreigners events of that magnitude, that was amazing
and what happened to "ESPN WAS LOOKING INTO TSL"? Not just hype, right?
I guess I'm kind of a volunteer in a small way, I've reported 2 security holes to Bob that could've let someone "malicious" like worldcommunist to do bad things. Bob got them fixed EXTREMELY FAST (like within hours). I have got to commend him for that, all the sites i've reported holes in, Teamliquid by far has the fastest and most correct response, he knows his stuff. Good security work through and through. Other sites i've had to sit there and explain the problem and then see their "fix" that's not really a fix and just an idiotic non-fix etc.
I don't know, but Mani's story on the first page. ESPN has 4 letters in it.
The first kind are the ones who truly love the volunteer work they're doing. As a volunteer, they'll probably be less productive because maybe a new game came out that they're really excited about and so it consumes their mind for a while. Or maybe they're temporarily out of good ideas so they stop working for a while. As a paid worker in these situations, either they'll just take a break like they normally would, or they'll feel obligated to be productive and end up producing lower-quality work.
The first kind are the ones who truly love the volunteer work they're doing. As a volunteer, they'll probably be less productive because maybe a new game came out that they're really excited about and so it consumes their mind for a while. Or maybe they're temporarily out of good ideas so they stop working for a while. As a paid worker in these situations, either they'll just take a break like they normally would, or they'll feel obligated to be productive and end up producing lower-quality work.
Im pretty sure they sent an angry letter demanding a free press pass to blizzcon...iirc someone actually replied to it from Blizzard too hahahah
Hahaha, this thread is full of awesome posts.
On February 25 2009 10:15 Manifesto7 wrote: The value we assign TL as members, and the value percieved by people from the outside for a site that looks like craigslist v.2 (sorry coders >.<) is so far apart that it is ridiculous.
Wouldn't that be the artists fault no the coders? The site seems to run fine and tlpd is awesome. Or are the coders doing the art too?!
On February 25 2009 16:29 Manifesto7 wrote: If we could pay people full time, then I think the payment / motivation problem disappears for sure. But for part time or non-regular work, I think it is just what you describe. I mean, 1k isn't going to be enough for any of our regular staff to drop their life and run a TSL 8 hours a day for 10 weeks. It needs to be a fulltime thing, and even then, doing something as a job may be different than doing something as a hobby to relax after your job. (Or doing something while you are at your job when you should be working... *shifty eyes*)
With money you kill the spirit since all they do turns into a "must".
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
Would be pretty rape if the donkey said "deal". Quite a TL-faith encouraging article
On February 25 2009 17:21 Abydos1 wrote: Wouldn't that be the artists fault no the coders? The site seems to run fine and tlpd is awesome. Or are the coders doing the art too?!
try looking into tl code! <br>'s every return, cmon!!! what css layout could work that way?!
i do some crappy gfx stuff and thats why i dont have a paintbrush or being remembered by anyone..
XCetron didnt gave me op at #TL and even asked who the fuck i was.. thats when i realized im a good ninja
TL is just epic. Haha, props to the staff, and if I may add something from a prayer...
"To give and not to count the cost.. ..To fight and not to heed the wounds.. ..To toil and not to seek for rest.. ..To labor, and ask not for reward.." - Prayer of Generosity by Saint Ignatius De Loyola.
Amazing thread. I'd just like to drop by and say Kennigit is one of the biggest contributors around. There is a lot of stuff that has to be done to keep TL running and without really being in the spotlight Kennigit plays a very important role in this.
On February 25 2009 17:21 Abydos1 wrote: Wouldn't that be the artists fault no the coders? The site seems to run fine and tlpd is awesome. Or are the coders doing the art too?!
try looking into tl code!
's every return, cmon!!! what css layout could work that way?!
i do some crappy gfx stuff and thats why i dont have a paintbrush or being remembered by anyone..
XCetron didnt gave me op at #TL and even asked who the fuck i was.. thats when i realized im a good ninja
maybe xcetron is a good ninja at hiding how dumb he is
If there was a mixed martial arts fight to death tournament among staff, who would emerge victorious, find a new crew of unpaid bondservants, and henceforth rule over TeamLiquid with an iron fist?
On February 25 2009 20:40 Scorch wrote: If there was a mixed martial arts fight to death tournament among staff, who would emerge victorious, find a new crew of unpaid bondservants, and henceforth rule over TeamLiquid with an iron fist?
KENNIGIT, youv'e seen that picture of him in cammo, omfg i wouldnt want to get him angry
For those that weren't around for it, Liquiscoop was the prelude to Pony XPress. Hotbid started/ran it with dronebabo itw and.. i forget sorry. Search "Liquiscoop" in search bar for old issues - they were really awesome.
On February 25 2009 20:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Amazing thread. I'd just like to drop by and say Kennigit is one of the biggest contributors around. There is a lot of stuff that has to be done to keep TL running and without really being in the spotlight Kennigit plays a very important role in this.
On February 25 2009 21:31 Kennigit wrote: For those that weren't around for it, Liquiscoop was the prelude to Pony XPress. Hotbid started/ran it with dronebabo itw and.. i forget sorry. Search "Liquiscoop" in search bar for old issues - they were really awesome.
THEY ARE IN THE ARTICLES SECTION, THE BEST PLACE ON TL THAT NOBODY GOES!
On February 25 2009 21:31 Kennigit wrote: For those that weren't around for it, Liquiscoop was the prelude to Pony XPress. Hotbid started/ran it with dronebabo itw and.. i forget sorry. Search "Liquiscoop" in search bar for old issues - they were really awesome.
THEY ARE IN THE ARTICLES SECTION, THE BEST PLACE ON TL THAT NOBODY GOES!
oh hey, I'm there too! :3
lol, this thread is great, no idea how I missed this for like a week.
Amazing job by Hot_Bid too on that LotR spoof, hahaha.
On February 25 2009 21:31 Kennigit wrote: For those that weren't around for it, Liquiscoop was the prelude to Pony XPress. Hotbid started/ran it with dronebabo itw and.. i forget sorry. Search "Liquiscoop" in search bar for old issues - they were really awesome.
it's a honor to spend a few hours every day. i contribute by clicking on the banner all the time :D
Project Wonderful, the ad system TL uses has banners paid for each day via a system where people bid for 24hrs of ad time on the webpage. The amount doesn't change whether you click/see the ads or not. So if you're so inclined, you can just block them. You're not actually earning revenue by clicking the ads.
A nice insight into a side I've wasted so many hours at it's getting ridiculous. It's nice to see that TL has survived and stayed awesome ever since late 2004 when I first visited. Keep up the awesome work
From what I understand of Project Wonderful though, it does rank the websites either by impressions or clickthroughs, or both? So in some sense, either coming to TL a lot or clicking the ads a lot should help The cost for the ad might not go up, but more people would want to bid for the ad if the ad-space is more lucrative.
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
LOL. I read this before it was on the front news. Funny article. Although it makes you appreciate the work that the tl.net staff does since it's all volunteer work!
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
what exactly is "going corporate"?
All staff would be required to browse the site in a suit and tie.
I laughed hard. K, this thread wins some award because I've been here for a solid 40 minutes and have laughed aloud to myself (not just finding shit quirky and typing 'lewl' ) at least once every five.
I've had three TL accounts over six years (two straight lurkers and this one) due to forgetting account names+passwords as well as reemerging into wanting to play/appreciate BW. So from my first year of high school to almost graduating college now this site with ^that^ same banner has been here providing the same great everything - wit, coverage, in-depth analysis, comraderie, and just uh anything sc related (or netizen etc.).
Thanks TL staff members, and its nice to get a peek behind the scenes because I always think great websites are just a bunch of people on the internet sitting alone typing stuff to each other along w/some coding when really there's a bunch of hardworking people involved.
There's something generally more enlightened about those people (community as well as staff) around here. Not like Dalai Lama, but you know. Probably has to do with the fact that if you're here you're almost always: internet-savvy, appreciate the higher/est echelons of a complicated rts game with a steep learning curve, and know that usually when someone says they're Korean they mean South Korean. ^_^
On February 25 2009 21:31 Kennigit wrote: For those that weren't around for it, Liquiscoop was the prelude to Pony XPress. Hotbid started/ran it with dronebabo itw and.. i forget sorry. Search "Liquiscoop" in search bar for old issues - they were really awesome.
THEY ARE IN THE ARTICLES SECTION, THE BEST PLACE ON TL THAT NOBODY GOES!
I love the articles section dude. Then again, I'm also a junkie for knowledge and love reading all the old stuff and seeing what happened with the older tournaments.
My visit in this thread will not last much longer; alas, I have spent enough time reading the thread and each subsequent response. However, let me go on record and say that this is quite possibly the greatest non-StarCraft thread I have ever read at TL.
It isn't often you get a chance to see some of the absolutely hilarious things that the staff have to deal with. I thank you (Kennigit) for bringing some of it to life.
Once again, this is one of my all-time favorite threads here. TL.net is fucking amazing. That word gets thrown around a lot, but in all sincerity If I only had one thing in this world to call amazing, it would definitely be TL.
Im pretty sure they sent an angry letter demanding a free press pass to blizzcon...iirc someone actually replied to it from Blizzard too hahahah
Hello,
I feel you have made a grave error. Many lesser websites, such as wgtour.com and teamliquid.net have received promotional tickets to Blizzcon. My/Our staff member(s) at the premier foreign StarCraft website, however, has/have received nothing for my/their efforts. One look at http://www.SCSuperBestFriends.com will reveal that I/we have been producing the highest StarCraft content imaginable for nearly a day. How you could snub my/our loyal staff member(s) and my/our eventual millions of users is beyond me/us.
I eagerly await your reply, Blake XXXXX -SCSuperBestFriends.com administrator
I don't have much else to say that hasn't been mentioned already. The guy who wanted to put his site's ads on every page was basically calling me a huge loser and saying I was a huge failure in life. Then he asked for a deal. Sick negotiation skills: insult a person then ask them for favours. Afterwards he was getting really aggrevated that I wouldn't take his call at work... O_o
I could go on for hours about SC2GG drama. I will say that I really like Psyonic_Reaver and Cholera, and Rise seems pretty cool too. It would be nice to hang out with them at Blizzcon or something.
I feel you have made a grave error. Many lesser websites, such as wgtour.com and teamliquid.net have received promotional tickets to Blizzcon. My/Our staff member(s) at the premier foreign StarCraft website, however, has/have received nothing for my/their efforts. One look at http://www.SCSuperBestFriends.com will reveal that I/we have been producing the highest StarCraft content imaginable for nearly a day. How you could snub my/our loyal staff member(s) and my/our eventual millions of users is beyond me/us.
I eagerly await your reply, Blake XXXXX -SCSuperBestFriends.com administrator
I don't have much else to say that hasn't been mentioned already. The guy who wanted to put his site's ads on every page was basically calling me a huge loser and saying I was a huge failure in life. Then he asked for a deal. Sick negotiation skills: insult a person then ask them for favours. Afterwards he was getting really aggrevated that I wouldn't take his call at work... O_o
He was trying to soften and humiliate you so that you beg for mercy and accept his offer.
On February 26 2009 01:02 Chill wrote: I could go on for hours about SC2GG drama. I will say that I really like Psyonic_Reaver and Cholera, and Rise seems pretty cool too. It would be nice to hang out with them at Blizzcon or something.
And I <3 you too. I'll be at Blizzcon for sure. Unless the tickets sell out super fast again. But then I may find a way to still get in like last year. Only time will tell.
On February 25 2009 21:31 Kennigit wrote: For those that weren't around for it, Liquiscoop was the prelude to Pony XPress. Hotbid started/ran it with dronebabo itw and.. i forget sorry. Search "Liquiscoop" in search bar for old issues - they were really awesome.
THEY ARE IN THE ARTICLES SECTION, THE BEST PLACE ON TL THAT NOBODY GOES!
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
what exactly is "going corporate"?
All staff would be required to browse the site in a suit and tie.
it's a honor to spend a few hours every day. i contribute by clicking on the banner all the time :D
Project Wonderful, the ad system TL uses has banners paid for each day via a system where people bid for 24hrs of ad time on the webpage. The amount doesn't change whether you click/see the ads or not. So if you're so inclined, you can just block them. You're not actually earning revenue by clicking the ads.
- I always get pissed off at Blizzard because they try to be fair by treating all their fan sites (in RTS) the same. That means that donkeyasssc2bestfriendsl0lheresmysc2site.com gets the “same” number of tickets to blizzcon as us or Gosugamers who pull in a billion hits in free advertising per day. In the same breath they have always been super cool with letting have free reign to do what we like (TSL etc) and despite the heart ache that MBS has caused, i think the feedback system if pretty baller
Actually - not all are treated the same - and don't forget about all the secret awesomeness coming down the pipes
- If we get the same number of beta keys as donkey start up sites im going to ragequit my life lol. Fuck it, Stimey you take over.
I wouldn't worry too much about that.
- Despite being the largest SC esports site I think we have one of the most silent relationships with Blizzard – I know LoA talks to the top blizzard guys a hell of a lot more than I do (read 0 times…except when I saw samwise in the subway in paris and peed my pants).
Haha - don't hate me, <3 me. We all know I <3 TL and its the only SC site I participate in besides my own. We just tend to do different things lol. I'm always around to help.
This is definitely the greatest thread ever here. Priceless Kennigit.
We applied the standard iccup rank curve to our actual worth. If we reach our full potential we will be worth millions. Therefore we are currently worth millions Q.E.D
On February 26 2009 02:45 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: any and all sc2gg drama aside, psyonic_reaver is a fucking hero and everyone should aspire to be a little more like him
FakeSteve. You are always invited to GET TO DA CHOPPA with me any day of the week.
Also I wanted to mention to XeoFreeStyler. We should start up a music group. I got the need to sing.
But to actually make a worthwhile post. I am glad TL.net is around and for all the work they give out to all SC communities. The TLPD is just one HUGE accomplishment among many that other sites haven't even tried to emulate at all. Whenever anybody asks about a stat or a player, everybody heads for the TLPD.
On February 26 2009 03:24 Teejing wrote: I love how tl.net does not spam me with ads, but on the other hand if very small ads could realize tsl2 i would be ok with that
If I remember correctly, they've said that money is not the issue with TSL2, it's the time commitment.
On February 26 2009 03:27 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: But to actually make a worthwhile post. I am glad TL.net is around and for all the work they give out to all SC communities. The TLPD is just one HUGE accomplishment among many that other sites haven't even tried to emulate at all. Whenever anybody asks about a stat or a player, everybody heads for the TLPD.
I give TL.net a big thumbs up.
Why would any other site try to emulate TLPD? All you need is the one and to make another is just a waste of resources and time.
On February 25 2009 12:18 mikeymoo wrote: Nicely written. Tbh if TL ever went corporate, it would lose a lot of its community and individuality anyways.
what exactly is "going corporate"?
All staff would be required to browse the site in a suit and tie.
We aren't supposed to be doing this?!
TWO YEARS of getting ready to browse on Team Liquid... WASTED TIME OMGG!!!!
Woah, I have never realized how much goes on behind the curtain. Makes me appreciate all the blood, sweat and tears that the staff put into this site so much more. Cheers guys! =D
TL has so many dedicated and intelligent people at the helm, and in the membership, I'm sure TL has the potential to become very huge in the near future.
This place is a fabulous community though. From lolling at Blogs to helping people on random topics to fanboyism to arguments of SC skill, I can see why people want to have our writers and showcasts.
Well, I did my part. I've visited a few SC sites, but... nothing beats TL. Even the codes like Spoilers, it's just intuitive interface! Easy, and brilliant writing staff. This is like ESPN for me. Oh hey, my only Youtube video (shamelessly demonstrating SCALED MBS), gives Teamliquid.net credits. Cheers! --E
Money does not spoil everything. I forget who said it like 10 pages ago, I agree that it is all about intent. There are plenty of people who work at big corporations or even own big corporations who are community-minded and do good things with wonderfully generous spirit.
I talk to people at other eSports organizations a lot and what I see is a very pronounced generation gap. The people who are at the top of this industry largely grew up before there was a real community (let's say the SC community) in place, and so they don't understand it well and don't deal with it well. They may be very smart people in other respects, but objectively it's a little difficult for someone who came of age in the traditional business world to understand what goes on at sites like TL and GGnet and SC2GG. The qualities of the internet itself have made entirely new things possible - can you imagine something like TL happening or something like StarCraft becoming so internationally popular before a global network like the internet existed?
The excellent news is that the first generation of people who understand gaming communities is coming of age. I'd say that includes people 18-29 years old with a few exceptions for very forward-thinking older folks. Sites like TL are training grounds for how to succeed in a world that is ruled more and more by what happens online. The military dictatorships in Korea in the 70's and 80's were run by people who graduated from the same year at the same military school, and such connections do not fade away easily. The time is coming soon when the 22 and 25-year-olds who have spent so much time and effort working with like-minded people from all across the world to promote something they are passionate about will be able to make a much larger impact. If they so choose.
There is nothing inherently corrupting about accepting money to do what you love, whether it be from sales or sponsorships or whatever. The real problems start when people feel like the money they are given entitles them to ignore the community that has supported them along the way. StarCraft II will boost things a lot, but without people in charge who know the community and know how to run things, it'll fall flat like many organizations have in the past. The key, I think, is to respect each other as people and not just text on a screen, and also to realize that one site or person's gain is not necessarily another's loss - the eSports scene is far from full-grown and that means opportunities exist for anyone who understands what they want and puts in the time and effort to make progress towards their goals.
Chill, next time I see you in person if you diss my posts I'm gonna diss you right back.
And Klazart knows (in hindsight) that he overreacted in a very unnecessary way.
We applied the standard iccup rank curve to our actual worth. If we reach our full potential we will be worth millions. Therefore we are currently worth millions Q.E.D
We applied the standard iccup rank curve to our actual worth. If we reach our full potential we will be worth millions. Therefore we are currently worth millions Q.E.D
Great article, good to know we are standing around the center of the gaming world
TL.net is such a holy shit that money can never rule, but hey arent we living in a modern world where money is sometimes important (not the most) to improve the quality of something?
not really a justification but everyone expects a payoff when doing something, the payoff may come in various form.expectedly or unexpectedly Fakesteve is like the best example of the later
I know this post was an eon ago, but wanted to clarify a bit and maybe try to bury the hatchet already.
This boils down to when Bazzei felt like he was being insulted here on TL.net over some racial remark. TL.net told him it wasn't and to calm down. Radivel, owner of SC2GG, invited Bazzi to his site and to work (for free) for him during Bazzei/TL.net negotiations. TL.net interpreted that as a slimey backstabbing thing to do. Hatred ensued.
I think the ultimate issue with the baezzi drama is that he asked Tl to stop using his vids in tlpd etc. Everything revolves around that in my opinion. Baezzi made this and a bunch of decisions out of anger and I feel like TL thinks that Radivel or sc2gg motivated them or something.
The only contact Radivel had with Baezzi was literally the statement that we would support him in this circumstance (the forum thread) no matter what (I think radivel thought baezzi was banned from the TL forums at this point).
I still stand by that because I can see how that thread was extremely offensive from a korean point of view. (I mean replace korean with white or black or mexican and it still seems offensive) At the same time I understand how other people saw the thread as innocuous but I try to error overly sensitively side of things for reasons that would create another post altogether.
I do think radivel was an ass about how he went about showing support though. I talked to him about immediately afterwards at which point he offered an apology via Hotbid. The rest is ugly history
But to clarify, Baezzi was already at that time honorary staff at sc2gg. To be honest, at that point we (moletrap and I and thus sc2gg) were completely dependent on Baezzi for various reasons which I won't go into so every new caster that finds windows movie maker won't harass him. (this means you person who just got an idea in your head). We couldn't "steal him" away, we were already working with him on a regular basis.
On a side note, I don't get a lot of pms on youtube and I enjoy them when I get them (even when they are totally retarded, they make me laugh). Baezzi on the other hand gets harassed on a regular basis with really inane requests. He is busy enough as it is. If you happen to be reading this and you are thinking about pming him, don't.
Anyhow the entire thing was a double whammy for me. First of all my viewers and I benefited directly from being included on the TLPD. Second I thought Baezzi was the one solid connection I had with TL. At that time I thought that tensions would smooth over inevitably simply because Baezzi's activities would necessitate some form of cooperation.
But what can you do? eh?
Ultimately though I have realized that I don't give a shit about any of this anymore. Tl and sc2gg are tied at the hip whether we like it or not simply because we serve the same audience in different capacities.
I'm sure that 98% of the sc2gg community visits TL because you guys have quality articles and features. I'm sure that a portion of TL visitors are here because they heard us give Tl a shout out in the early days and its impossible to avoid TL due to its stature.
I have to respect your guys contribution to the community at large. I still think you guys are secretly getting paid on staff to stay motivated.
Its also nice to deal with people who speak their mind no matter what. (the good and the bad) Go see Kurosawa's Ran if you are wondering why that is a virtue.
Otherwise to hop on the direct love band wagon...
HRN)Insane has been pretty awesome. Kennigit has been very cordial. I regret not getting to work with zatic more.
I am actually close personal friends with Semioldguy. I use him to steal TL ideas and read the forum bad mouthing all the time.
I could go on for hours about SC2GG drama. I will say that I really like Psyonic_Reaver and Cholera, and Rise seems pretty cool too. It would be nice to hang out with them at Blizzcon or something.
On February 26 2009 15:20 Last Romantic wrote: You're letting Baezzi off a bit lightly there. You do realize whose account he's using in the first place, right?
This thread isn't about sc2gg and ancient history. There are plenty of 50 page threads about that already. Who cares about it. One thing though, since the topic is about money...
I have to respect your guys contribution to the community at large. I still think you guys are secretly getting paid on staff to stay motivated.
I don't know if this is a serious statement or not, but we have repeatedly made this known, and it sounds like you are saying we aren't honest. Just to be clear, nobody gets a salary here. All the ad money goes into paying for servers and prizes. Even the shirts, both the TL ones and the progamer ones were sold at basically cost. (We were lucky to sell out actually, because the profit margin was so low that we easily could have lost money). The only things we have talked about doing is paying a coder to add certain features to the site, but that hasn't materialized yet.
What staff do get are opportunities and contacts. Our staff gets to use tickets to Blizzcon etc, and obviously Steve got his job in part to his exposure on TL. I recieved money to travel to Blizzcon in 07 because Meat got the free trip from Blizzard (he travelled a lot further than I did). All told, I am probably down 4k to TL over the past 5 years. Most of the other staff have spent their own money on TL or travelling to events representing TL as well.
That is why going for-profit would be so difficult. With so many staff members, who gets what and why? How do you distinguish between paid staff and volunteers?
Just wanted to clear that up so there are no misconceptions.
On February 26 2009 15:35 Ideas wrote: who is the best player on staff?
Pshh... I got dis easy.
follow-up question: who actually plays SC on staff? I know a lot of TLers dont actually play any more but only watch or just like to post in the none-SC forums...(not that theres anything wrong with that i guess )
On February 26 2009 15:35 Ideas wrote: who is the best player on staff?
Pshh... I got dis easy.
follow-up question: who actually plays SC on staff? I know a lot of TLers dont actually play any more but only watch or just like to post in the none-SC forums...(not that theres anything wrong with that i guess )
Virtually no one plays competitively. For fun, if at all.
On February 26 2009 15:35 Ideas wrote: who is the best player on staff?
Pshh... I got dis easy.
follow-up question: who actually plays SC on staff? I know a lot of TLers dont actually play any more but only watch or just like to post in the none-SC forums...(not that theres anything wrong with that i guess )
i havent played much since i moved to singapore but i was practicing a lot with my media team buddies before i left, played in a few WGT-CL matches when we were called 88 for a brief period
once i get a desktop i'll be playing actively again
I don't know if this is a serious statement or not, but we have repeatedly made this known, and it sounds like you are saying we aren't honest. Just to be clear, nobody gets a salary here. All the ad money goes into paying for servers and prizes. Even the shirts, both the TL ones and the progamer ones were sold at basically cost. (We were lucky to sell out actually, because the profit margin was so low that we easily could have lost money). The only things we have talked about doing is paying a coder to add certain features to the site, but that hasn't materialized yet.
Its a sarcastic compliment.
Makes me feel guilty for the oodles of cash I am raking in. Semi takes dips in my money pool now and then.
Hey folks from TL staff just want to thank you all for your dedication.
Yours is one of the best web sites I have ever seen (including arbitrary commercial ones), but most surely the best community web site around. And this includes the techincal side, artwork, layout, coverage, administration, style and all the frickin' stuff you do, from live streams to fan article auctions etc.
i said active eri naz and twisted are better than active FA
how does the fact that i didnt mention the rest of the names on the list i posted earlier not get you to the conclusion that FA is better than those people
Kennigit> Hey Bill Gates, It’s Steve Jobs phoning up ‘oh sup daug how dem macs.’ “yeah can we hire your engineers cause ours suck Lolool0l0” “hey sure no prab Ll0l00l” “l0l0l0l”
Kennigit> Hey Bill Gates, It’s Steve Jobs phoning up ‘oh sup daug how dem macs.’ “yeah can we hire your engineers cause ours suck Lolool0l0” “hey sure no prab Ll0l00l” “l0l0l0l”
lol i laugh so hard XD
Me too, I almost fell out of my chair picturing this in my mind. :D Seriously though, what the heck did they expect as an answer? "Yeah, we'll send you some of our writers, np, sharing is caring k thx bye"?
On February 26 2009 15:35 Ideas wrote: who is the best player on staff?
Kinda like this, just counting colored names:
Eri Naz Twisted if he got off his ass Chill/Insane cow/intrigue (intrigue you're better than me right?) FakeSteve/Manifesto/Rage everyone else
i might be missing one or two
Insane's T is way better than my Z, but his P sucks ass. It's actually kind of unbelievable and humbling how good Insane's TvZ is. I'm not sure why it's so good when he plays P. I'm better than Naz and I've never played Twisted. Eri is better than me, though.
we had a staff league it was called newbleague this past summer. i will list the results and 1v1 records of all the staff members who participated, their ELOs are next to their records (the "average" player was 1000 rating). I will also include notable forum veterans as a measuring stick.
I think these rankings (current as of August 2008) are pretty accurate about people's levels when everyone was relatively active.
The only one that isn't 100% accurate is me, because since this league, I've practiced an insane amount and am now easily B on ICCup. No I haven't actually reached B, but I am pretty sure I'd win at 50% pretty soundly if I were to try.
On February 27 2009 03:23 Hot_Bid wrote: we had a staff league it was called newbleague this past summer. i will list the results and 1v1 records of all the staff members who participated, their ELOs are next to their records (the "average" player was 1000 rating). I will also include notable forum veterans as a measuring stick.
I think these rankings (current as of August 2008) are pretty accurate about people's levels when everyone was relatively active.
The only one that isn't 100% accurate is me, because since this league, I've practiced an insane amount and am now easily B on ICCup. No I haven't actually reached B, but I am pretty sure I'd win at 50% pretty soundly if I were to try.
Remember that game GTR (T, 6) vs Grinq (P, 9) @ Python? GTR was doing some sort of biomech build and Grinq was murdering him. Then Grinq started getting cocky and almost lost while getting Carriers.
That's the only game I've ever seen someone land an Engineering Bay in the center of their opponent's main, research +1, and have it finish. I was crying by the end of that game.
my favorite showmatch moment was Grinq vs Pressure ZvT where Pressure was up like 150 to 50 supply, and intrigue as a BM obs nukes one of Pressure's armies as he was eliminating Grinq's main, and Grinq was really pissed because the nuke would "invalidate his win" if he were to come back hahaha
On February 27 2009 06:02 Hot_Bid wrote: my favorite showmatch moment was Grinq vs Pressure ZvT where Pressure was up like 150 to 50 supply, and intrigue as a BM obs nukes one of Pressure's armies as he was eliminating Grinq's main, and Grinq was really pissed because the nuke would "invalidate his win" if he were to come back hahaha
Honestly this was the greatest game broadcast ever ever
On February 26 2009 15:35 Ideas wrote: who is the best player on staff?
Kinda like this, just counting colored names:
Eri Naz Twisted if he got off his ass Chill/Insane cow/intrigue (intrigue you're better than me right?) FakeSteve/Manifesto/Rage everyone else
i might be missing one or two
Insane's T is way better than my Z, but his P sucks ass. It's actually kind of unbelievable and humbling how good Insane's TvZ is. I'm not sure why it's so good when he plays P. I'm better than Naz and I've never played Twisted. Eri is better than me, though.
I think Steve meant something like 'in their prime' or some shit lol.
On February 27 2009 05:53 Chill wrote: Remember that game GTR (T, 6) vs Grinq (P, 9) @ Python? GTR was doing some sort of biomech build and Grinq was murdering him. Then Grinq started getting cocky and almost lost while getting Carriers.
That's the only game I've ever seen someone land an Engineering Bay in the center of their opponent's main, research +1, and have it finish. I was crying by the end of that game.
Yes that was an awesome game hahaha.
BTW the rankings are obviously completely invalid for newbleague 2.
You harass me about being below gtr in the rankings which is incontrovertible proof that I was better than GTR at that time.
I miss Beyonder.. Although he had the Chibi thing, he was the best banner. (Even better than Rekrul). What happened to him? I guess his personal life became too busy?
On February 27 2009 13:39 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: I miss Beyonder.. Although he had the Chibi thing, he was the best banner. (Even better than Rekrul). What happened to him? I guess his personal life became too busy?
- any game consisting of jared having a superior lead, then failing, proceeding to lose (intrigue vs jared on colosseum comes to mind) - max vs dave on blue storm (lol)
he opens with a """""""""wall in"""""""" that didnt block anything, cause it had a gap big enought to let dragoons out. Anyway, when moving out he decides to kill a depot (??????) instead of lifting the rax.
On February 27 2009 14:36 GTR-2-Go wrote: - any game consisting of jared having a superior lead, then failing, proceeding to lose (intrigue vs jared on colosseum comes to mind)
Think it was on Longinus? intrigue @ 11, Jared @ 3.
it was a really long game on colloseum, and jared had the game in the bag, but he lost like two expansions and failed to secure a mineral only and intrigue with like 0.5 bases managed to come back and win.
On February 27 2009 14:37 IntoTheWow wrote: The best game was GrinQ vs someone on Katrina.
he opens with a """""""""wall in"""""""" that didnt block anything, cause it had a gap big enought to let dragoons out. Anyway, when moving out he decides to kill a depot (??????) instead of lifting the rax.
On February 27 2009 05:53 Chill wrote: Remember that game GTR (T, 6) vs Grinq (P, 9) @ Python? GTR was doing some sort of biomech build and Grinq was murdering him. Then Grinq started getting cocky and almost lost while getting Carriers.
That's the only game I've ever seen someone land an Engineering Bay in the center of their opponent's main, research +1, and have it finish. I was crying by the end of that game.
Where would the replays or VODs of this game and that Intrigue/Jared game be? If they exist anymore
On February 27 2009 14:37 IntoTheWow wrote: The best game was GrinQ vs someone on Katrina.
he opens with a """""""""wall in"""""""" that didnt block anything, cause it had a gap big enought to let dragoons out. Anyway, when moving out he decides to kill a depot (??????) instead of lifting the rax.
I was in tears.
DSH. SHOWMATCH OF THE CENTURY
That Katrina game was pure art.
- Wallin that lets dragoon in - Breaking out the wallin by killing the depot - 6 Vult raid on an empty P main get 2 probes - 2 Vult raid on the same, defended main get 4 probes - Scout actually used for scouting - 6 Carrier fleet sent to get rid of 1 marine on the other side of the map - 1 Zealot shuts down an expo for 5min while the CC keeps pumping out scv - 2/2 3 base Terran rage quits against 5 Carriers
On February 27 2009 03:23 Hot_Bid wrote: we had a staff league it was called newbleague this past summer. i will list the results and 1v1 records of all the staff members who participated, their ELOs are next to their records (the "average" player was 1000 rating). I will also include notable forum veterans as a measuring stick.
I think these rankings (current as of August 2008) are pretty accurate about people's levels when everyone was relatively active.
The only one that isn't 100% accurate is me, because since this league, I've practiced an insane amount and am now easily B on ICCup. No I haven't actually reached B, but I am pretty sure I'd win at 50% pretty soundly if I were to try.
I was no where near active when NL was played =[ and I lost a stupid game on peaks where i proxied and trapped my own units rofl (hilarous; ) still fought for like 15+ minutes though (was against metalx). I go around 50% with SJM for instance, well, when we played a lot anyway.
On February 27 2009 05:53 Chill wrote: Remember that game GTR (T, 6) vs Grinq (P, 9) @ Python? GTR was doing some sort of biomech build and Grinq was murdering him. Then Grinq started getting cocky and almost lost while getting Carriers.
That's the only game I've ever seen someone land an Engineering Bay in the center of their opponent's main, research +1, and have it finish. I was crying by the end of that game.
On February 27 2009 06:02 Hot_Bid wrote: my favorite showmatch moment was Grinq vs Pressure ZvT where Pressure was up like 150 to 50 supply, and intrigue as a BM obs nukes one of Pressure's armies as he was eliminating Grinq's main, and Grinq was really pissed because the nuke would "invalidate his win" if he were to come back hahaha
On February 27 2009 14:37 IntoTheWow wrote: The best game was GrinQ vs someone on Katrina.
he opens with a """""""""wall in"""""""" that didnt block anything, cause it had a gap big enought to let dragoons out. Anyway, when moving out he decides to kill a depot (??????) instead of lifting the rax.
I was in tears.
Are there replays/VODs available of these games? I need to see these LOL.
On February 27 2009 03:23 Hot_Bid wrote: we had a staff league it was called newbleague this past summer. i will list the results and 1v1 records of all the staff members who participated, their ELOs are next to their records (the "average" player was 1000 rating). I will also include notable forum veterans as a measuring stick.
I think these rankings (current as of August 2008) are pretty accurate about people's levels when everyone was relatively active.
The only one that isn't 100% accurate is me, because since this league, I've practiced an insane amount and am now easily B on ICCup. No I haven't actually reached B, but I am pretty sure I'd win at 50% pretty soundly if I were to try.
I was no where near active when NL was played =[ and I lost a stupid game on peaks where i proxied and trapped my own units rofl (hilarous; ) still fought for like 15+ minutes though (was against metalx). I go around 50% with SJM for instance, well, when we played a lot anyway.
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
TL is worth more than $1 million. It's worth lives. LOL
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
If TL had a sc2 or bw team that is nonprofit and is trying to go pro, I am so down to support that shit in any way possible.
TL is so amazing. This site hits the heart of all SC/blizzard gamers. There are so many knowledgeable people who grew up with Starcraft and understand what the TL staff does for us. There are so many who are willing to do so much for TeamLiquid. for the payment of having such a great community.
Spirit is what makes TeamLiquid. If it was run under a commercial company intending to make a profit, it would never be as popular or appreciated. I genuinely thank the creators and admins for staying true to your comminuty. TL is made of hard work and love. I understand that TL is given the opportunity to make money based off it's hits and advertising, and I thank TL for not becoming what many money hungry asshole companies have become.
Lol before reading this thread I knew 2 things about Kennigit : - he is the worst TL staff at playing SCBW - he bans kids all day long. Thanks for bumping ! Kennigit is awesome ! (lol at the steve jobs and bill gates comparison ! )
Lol after reading this, was going to bump this then I found out some good soul already bummed it for me
We have to thank stimey the OKGM FISH since he put this in his site then in the automated ban list there some dude put it there then I found this golden gem
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
You missed the point of Manifesto's "One million dollars" response.
I think he said that in Dr. Evil's style from Austin Powers. And if that guy laughed at him and said "sure", he'd reply "1 billion dollars!! mwuahaha!!".
Epic bump is epic. Seriously, I never saw this thread and it's truly got some amazing content and insight! Thanks for all the effort as always! (btw Google is considering buying TL for the TLPD)
On July 01 2010 01:02 Armathai wrote: Epic bump is epic.
Don't do this please.
Yeah fun stuff. I was at WCG trying to discuss possible Hwaseung shirt deals with coach Cho when the guy from Kennigit's 1st story busted the meeting and demanded that all shirt deals go through him. He also demanded to know the profit we wanted to make off the shirt sales.
teamliquid.net Estimated Worth $423896.4 USD Title Starcraft Pro Gaming News Description Team Liquid is a community site focused on Starcraft: Brood War and its professional scene, featuring pro-gaming news and information, videos, strategy, and replays, and the latest info on Starcraft II. Daily Pageview 193559 Daily Ads Revenue $580.68
We held a pretty successful party at the Marriott hotel last year during Blizzcon. Organizing that almost drove me crazy. But looking back I think it turned out really well and I'm pretty proud of setting that up.
I got to admit this was one of the most interesting and cool things I have read on TL.
I lol'd on so many things but this one thing in particular had me lol'ing real hard
"The longer version of this includes an hour long msn convo chill had with this person where all they did was insult each other viciously and the person wanted to phone Chill at work lol. DRAAAMAAAA…"
Epic read. Really puts some light on just how amazing the work you guys are doing here is. If only eSports was run by guys from TL. Just imagine how amazing it would be
Really great read. One of the best threads I've read on Teamliquid, especially since it deals with a different perspective rather than the usual SC pro-scene stuff.
On February 25 2009 10:15 Manifesto7 wrote:
Nobody has made a really serious bid. The value we assign TL as members, and the value percieved by people from the outside for a site that looks like craigslist v.2 (sorry coders >.<) is so far apart that it is ridiculous.
I have to admit, when I was first drawn to TL.net (years ago, believe when I was looking for a way to run SC1 in windowed mode), I was put off at first by the legitimacy of the site and it almost deterred me from downloading chaoslauncher since I felt maybe it was plauged with viruses or something, haha {as a result of the oldschool layout}. After spending so much time on the site though, I think completely the opposite now and the layout doesn't bother me at all. If anything, I like TL.net's layout as it sets it apart from the typical phpBB or vBulletin forum.
Thanks TL staff! I didn't know you guys all made $0 (and actually lost money) from this site, even the t-shirts. Your hard work and passion for what you do is an example for us all.
On July 01 2010 06:35 Radical wrote: Thanks TL staff! I didn't know you guys all made $0 (and actually lost money) from this site, even the t-shirts. Your hard work and passion for what you do is an example for us all.
If you knew how ads work, someone actually does make money from clicking them or from simply viewing it on the page. The only question is who receives the revenue. Or it could be all spent up on web hosting.
this shows the spirit of TL and how its a site based on a game thats worth 10 bucks yeah just 10$bucks when have you ever had so much fun and time spent on just 10$.. the work done here is good because it is amateur and therefore it has a much higher standard bar your own.. there is no top dog that just wants things to go out no matter the quality.. thats why TL is what it is..
This was such a great read and I'm sorry I missed it the first time around. TL is the greatest site on the internet with the greatest community in video gaming. I hope the mods are as proud of themselves as I am. Way to stick to your guns and not sell out.
Day9 in the daily #100 said it's important to think the things you do are the coolest things in the world, and nothing makes that easier for me when it comes to being a fan of e-sports and starcraft than teamliquid.
On July 01 2010 03:37 Chill wrote: We held a pretty successful party at the Marriott hotel last year during Blizzcon. Organizing that almost drove me crazy. But looking back I think it turned out really well and I'm pretty proud of setting that up.
Still cant explain myself how you managed to have alcohol in the meeting when Hotel staff told you NO, in a request days before
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
They heard about TSL, and without any preamble, they came to me and said:
Donkey- Let's nto beat around the bush. We want to buy your site. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we play starcraft, not xbox. Donkey- That's ok. We will make it huge. ManifestoCrusher- Um, we don't even have a sponsor for the tournament yet. Would you be interested in a sponsorship deal? We could work out some sweet exposure for you. Donkey- We just want to buy the site. What is your business model?ManifestoCrusher- Our what? Donkey- How much do you get paid a month? ManifestoCrusher- Um, nobody gets paid. It is a volunteer site. Donkey- Yeah but how much do you MAKE? ManifestoCrusher- We pay our server fees with google ads and sometimes we make shirts. We don't make a profit though. Donkey- I'll buy your site. You know, I can't pay a lot, ut I could give you a few bucks for the domain and create a paid position. ManifestoCrusher- But we have about 30 staff. Who gets the money. Donkey- It could just be between you and me. ManifestoCrusher- ... Donkey- So how much for the site? ManifestoCrusher- One million dollars. Donkey has left the chat.
Only One million? This domain is worth at least 200 mil. c'mon, what this site does for Esports and gamers no other site does.
I'm just going around bumping classic threads so some of our newer members can catch a glimpse of some TL history gems. Mods please let me know if it's a problem.
On January 31 2012 22:21 Funnytoss wrote: I'm just going around bumping classic threads so some of our newer members can catch a glimpse of some TL history gems. Mods please let me know if it's a problem.
Thanks a lot, im one of those newbies and i really appreciate. I hope the mods are fine with it ^^
Yes i remember this thread, super nice even though not really accurate anymore, with all the sponsorships and all. Im absolutely fine with that, just sayin.
Some Teamliquid staff have clauses that if incontrol of dronebabo are ever made mods that they will quit immediately – I think they’d both be awesome mods.
Most likely won't recognise them but. NAMES PLEASE?
LOL thank god this thread popped up again, i remember reading this a couple years ago and actually tried to search for it last summer but couldn't find it.
TL has enjoyed a lot of success after this thread was made, so I can only assume that there are a plethora of new incidents like those described in the OP, but with TL being less "underground" now - they might be hesitant to call out any more "donkeys".
On January 31 2012 22:58 Sayle wrote: I had no idea there was drama with SC2GG. Huh.
Something about Jon747 right? I remembered when all the videos weren't allowed to be embedded.
But I totally missed out on the drama I was only around for the aftermath..
Please, do tell us a story about sc2gg
my memory is a bit hazy and i'm not gonna search for it but as I recall there was a thread discussing rape and Japan/Korea. Baezzi was the Korean who went through all the effort of uploading the original VOD's to the original Baezzi account, then to Jon747. Without livestreams these VODs were the life-blood of the foreign BW community.
So, Baezzi reads the thread, and reacts with a sense of nationalism, misinterpreting the actual points of the thread and taking it as an insult to his country. He's having this big hissy fit and then Radivel, the owner of SC2GG (which has a near-monopoly on the other popular form of foreign BW content, english-commentary) steps in and says come to SC2GG we'll treat you right there etc. etc.
So Baezzi storms off TL and says don't use the content I upload by linking it on your forums/embedding it in your database blah blah. And then everyone hates Radivel and SC2GG. This all happened when I was a BW-neophyte and actually staff on SC2GG and not Teamliquid so someone else may be able to better-explain it.
But it was a big deal in a time when there was no TwitchTV, no Owned, no livestream, no mogulus, etc. There may have been a rare mms stream and many nights spent trying to watch BW live through chinese relays like pps and yaoyan (god fuck yaoyan seriously). So it was a big deal.
On February 25 2009 09:58 Manifesto7 wrote: TSL really brought people out of the woodwork. I got contacted by a major American sports broadcasting company that has four letters in its name. They had recently invested in a videogame league (relationship now defunct lolz).
Oh wow I actually read the whole thing before realising it was old post, explains the many things I found weird and had no clue about. Still a good read and thanks for everything TL staff.
Thanks a lot Funnytoss really like seeing these old threads, makes me sad though that I didn't find out about TL only two years or so ago. Great read, great thread.
On January 31 2012 22:58 Sayle wrote: I had no idea there was drama with SC2GG. Huh.
Something about Jon747 right? I remembered when all the videos weren't allowed to be embedded.
But I totally missed out on the drama I was only around for the aftermath..
Please, do tell us a story about sc2gg
my memory is a bit hazy and i'm not gonna search for it but as I recall there was a thread discussing rape and Japan/Korea. Baezzi was the Korean who went through all the effort of uploading the original VOD's to the original Baezzi account, then to Jon747. Without livestreams these VODs were the life-blood of the foreign BW community.
So, Baezzi reads the thread, and reacts with a sense of nationalism, misinterpreting the actual points of the thread and taking it as an insult to his country. He's having this big hissy fit and then Radivel, the owner of SC2GG (which has a near-monopoly on the other popular form of foreign BW content, english-commentary) steps in and says come to SC2GG we'll treat you right there etc. etc.
So Baezzi storms off TL and says don't use the content I upload by linking it on your forums/embedding it in your database blah blah. And then everyone hates Radivel and SC2GG. This all happened when I was a BW-neophyte and actually staff on SC2GG and not Teamliquid so someone else may be able to better-explain it.
But it was a big deal in a time when there was no TwitchTV, no Owned, no livestream, no mogulus, etc. There may have been a rare mms stream and many nights spent trying to watch BW live through chinese relays like pps and yaoyan (god fuck yaoyan seriously). So it was a big deal.
ahahaha thanks for the story
On February 01 2012 04:30 Kennigit wrote: Rofl this is embarrassing to read hahaha.
Some days I wish I could go back in time so I could live these moments when they happened. Glad to see that while our world is in chaos because of dumb leaders, TL remains a safe haven. Fight the good fight!
- Karune is awesome. If I send him a question that he doesn’t know the answer too or he’s too busy he doesn’t reply. So one day I followed up my question by trolling with “oh yeah we are talking about selling beta keys for cost, is that ok with you guys?”…he immediately appeared to tell me no hehe…then disappeared back into the void.
Damn, I shoulda have thought of this quote when I was sad that Kennigit didn't reply to my PM. =(
Haha this is so good. I didn't read the date and thought it was a recent rant, but it started sounding vaguely familiar. It wasn't until I read Manifesto's post that it finally clicked that I had definitely read it before and the posts were all from 2009. Nice find.
Wow. Wasn't here when this article was originally posted, but so awesome reading all theses posts and reference to past dramas. Man, I wished I joined much much earlier
I've just watched the intrigue vs jared replay and I could imagine all the observers from that game laughing the shit out of themselves. One of the best thread ever indeed!
"Sup, I want to buy ur site?? i cnt pay a lot or nething but dw ull get money. dw about the rest of teh staff, u can jst go behind their back n stuff?? sounds goo yeh`??"
This is a good thread, Kennegit should get on his horse again for those of us that just don't pay have time to attention anymore.
RE: P4ndemik's post, and me not liking long quotes. There was a lot of rudeness towards me/SC2GG before, during and after that from TL, indeed for most of SC2GG's active existence. Perhaps what was done wasn't justified, but it's not like it was a conversation between angels and demons.
I just spent a bit thinking about this, something I haven't done for a long time, heh.
You know what? We need a big official badass threads thread. Put the links to all these epic forgotten threads in one place like a museum. Only problem is to dig em' all up lol.
On February 04 2012 05:09 Radivel-X17 wrote: This is a good thread, Kennegit should get on his horse again for those of us that just don't pay have time to attention anymore.
RE: P4ndemik's post, and me not liking long quotes. There was a lot of rudeness towards me/SC2GG before, during and after that from TL, indeed for most of SC2GG's active existence. Perhaps what was done wasn't justified, but it's not like it was a conversation between angels and demons.
I just spent a bit thinking about this, something I haven't done for a long time, heh.
No doubt there was a lot of friction. I remember some of my first posts ever made on TL were defending Klazart from people who I thought were persecuting him. Other SC2GG commentators that were really vocal here also got rubbed the wrong way as well iirc. In the end it was all very petty stuff tbh. Mostly people being a bit too harsh in their criticism to the point of wanting to humiliate people who committed no grave offense other than be passionate about a game they enjoyed, and then those people not reacting in the best way possible to said criticism.
EPT
). It's nice to see that TL's owner's/staff are so dedicated to the site.
haha
![[image loading]](http://www.wgtour.com/upload/admin/5103_ilove.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/gallery/23956.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/usericons/22460.png)
and ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/usericons/LS1.gif)
?
:p 
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SonuvBob/ss/pinkkennigit.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/JWD/misc/princess_kennigit.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/esports.jpg)
