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New MSL Maps

Forum Index > BW General
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GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51507 Posts
January 09 2009 13:08 GMT
#1
▶ 카르타고 (Carthage) 1.0
* Positions : 2 Players ( 5, 11)
* Tileset : Jungle World
* Dimensions : 112×128
* Version : 1.0
* Author : 송기범 (Song Ki Bum) (skb9728_CyGnus)

[image loading]


▶ 비잔티움 (Byzantium) 2.3
* Positions : 4 Players (1, 5, 7,11)
* Tileset : Twilight
* Dimensions : 128×128
* Version : 2.3
* Author : 송기범 (Song Ki Bum) (skb9728_CyGnus)

[image loading]


The other two maps being used will be Shin Chungpungmyeongwol (Neo Harmony) and Destination.

Maps will be available to download on the 15th (first day of MSL)
Commentator
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27156 Posts
January 09 2009 13:11 GMT
#2
What are the changes on Byzantuim? (I dont know the original well enough to tell)
ModeratorGodfather
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51507 Posts
January 09 2009 13:18 GMT
#3
That's what I was figuring out too, but what I could minutely gather with my bad Korean, 1'o clock has been adjusted a bit.
Commentator
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
January 09 2009 13:23 GMT
#4
My map season, my favorite season
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
January 09 2009 13:30 GMT
#5
Carthage looks like another Zerg graveyard.
keit
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
1584 Posts
January 09 2009 13:32 GMT
#6
[image loading]


Here's the changes, a bit less mineralpatches in the new one it seems
Graphics
ChaoSbringer
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia1382 Posts
January 09 2009 13:32 GMT
#7
No min only expo's on Carthage, interesting. I wonder if the gas is 2500 rather than 5000 in some of the further away expos. I guess the maker took what the OGN commentator in advice, about giving toss free expos. Though I think Carthage looks sorta boring. I never really liked Byzantium much as a map, and don't like how they seem to have stuck with it despite the predecessors questionable balance. (Didn't like RotK either).
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
January 09 2009 13:37 GMT
#8
wow. Seems like the Zerg player complains have come to their attention once again

Both maps look Zerg friendly, especially the new Byzantium
dats racist
prOxi.Beater
Profile Joined December 2008
Denmark626 Posts
January 09 2009 13:37 GMT
#9
Carthage has an enormous amount of places where you can put proxies. I don't think it'll be a zerg graveyard since at least it'll be really easy to secure a 3rd gas, and once defilers are out hills favor zerg more than terran. ZvP will probably be hard since it's now protoss who can secure that 3rd gas really easily, although the toss will become very vulnerable to drops and counter attacks once he extends out beyond that.

Byzantium still sucks but at least Carthage is looking pretty decent
Nobody beats the Beater
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
January 09 2009 13:39 GMT
#10
On January 09 2009 22:37 prOxi.Beater wrote:
Carthage has an enormous amount of places where you can put proxies. I don't think it'll be a zerg graveyard since at least it'll be really easy to secure a 3rd gas, and once defilers are out hills favor zerg more than terran. ZvP will probably be hard since it's now protoss who can secure that 3rd gas really easily, although the toss will become very vulnerable to drops and counter attacks once he extends out beyond that.

Byzantium still sucks but at least Carthage is looking pretty decent

wow I can't believe I didn't see that 3rd gas ;; I thought it was mineral only
dats racist
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
January 09 2009 13:39 GMT
#11
So they decreased the number of mineral patches in nat and 3rd... Hmm... But I have to say I generally don't like Byzantium.

Don't really like the look of Carthage but who knows. Maybe it will turn out to be a good map.
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
January 09 2009 13:50 GMT
#12
On January 09 2009 22:39 Lebesgue wrote:
So they decreased the number of mineral patches in nat and 3rd... Hmm... But I have to say I generally don't like Byzantium.

Don't really like the look of Carthage but who knows. Maybe it will turn out to be a good map.

They did that to boost Zerg a bit.

Or a lot.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
January 09 2009 14:05 GMT
#13
On January 09 2009 22:08 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Shin Chungpungmyeongwol


holy crap
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
anotak
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1537 Posts
January 09 2009 14:10 GMT
#14
Carthage shocks me of how well thought out it's made. Not sure if I like the neutral temples in the middle but I'm generally a hater with regards to neutral buildings and shit like that on maps. Maps should be back to basics. Carthage looks fun tvp, carriers might be strong though.don't think they'll be katrina-strong through. I think you might be able to drop a ghost behind the nat on carthage.... not sure on that.

I also love 2 player maps.
Chameleon
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States604 Posts
January 09 2009 14:11 GMT
#15
Doesnt look like much room for a big toss army to flank a big terran push. Carriers could be brutal though.
TL's #1 Horang2 fan
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 14:19:38
January 09 2009 14:18 GMT
#16
fuck the new map doesnt looks too great... Zergs gonna have hard time to get their 3rd early on, it looks like a protoss heaven with the open areas, wallin-able expo, many alternate ways to reach the other expos, easy falnk options. I dont know, it might suit zergs the lack of mineralpatches on gas-expoes, but it looks like a toss map. Carriers should be fine too
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
rekluce
Profile Joined June 2007
United States51 Posts
January 09 2009 15:01 GMT
#17
carthage seems to be another one of theos chupung / peaks of beduku types maps
boxer > jaedong folks
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
January 09 2009 15:09 GMT
#18
Okay, this map is a bit like Longinus and Tau Cross combined, except that it's a two-player map so I would expect a lot of games with proxies. Hard to judge though, so I would like to see some games on it first.

On the other hand, Byzantium is boring and still sucks.
Brood War loyalist
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
January 09 2009 15:18 GMT
#19
I bet we will see lots of proxies in Carthage. It has lots of places to hide you stuff.
Wonders
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Australia753 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 15:21:35
January 09 2009 15:18 GMT
#20
It looks like the mapmakers are trying to make maps better for zerg. They're finally reducing the number of mineral patches!
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9949 Posts
January 09 2009 15:19 GMT
#21
Wow, I like Carthage. It's going to be a huge proxyfest PvT though.
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
January 09 2009 15:19 GMT
#22
On January 10 2009 00:18 Wonders wrote:
It looks like the mapmakers are trying to make maps better for zerg. Can someone confirm that there's only 7 patches in the main on Carthage?

yeah I count 7. It looks like 5 because the picture got minimized but I am pretty sure it is 7.
dats racist
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 16:28:51
January 09 2009 16:27 GMT
#23
On January 10 2009 00:19 MrHoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2009 00:18 Wonders wrote:
It looks like the mapmakers are trying to make maps better for zerg. Can someone confirm that there's only 7 patches in the main on Carthage?

yeah I count 7. It looks like 5 because the picture got minimized but I am pretty sure it is 7.


dunno. I count 8. I think there is no gap in the mineral line but I'm not sure. The natural has for sure only 7 though.
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
January 09 2009 16:30 GMT
#24
On January 10 2009 01:27 Lebesgue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2009 00:19 MrHoon wrote:
On January 10 2009 00:18 Wonders wrote:
It looks like the mapmakers are trying to make maps better for zerg. Can someone confirm that there's only 7 patches in the main on Carthage?

yeah I count 7. It looks like 5 because the picture got minimized but I am pretty sure it is 7.


dunno. I count 8. I think there is no gap in the mineral line but I'm not sure. The natural has for sure only 7 though.


I count 8 as well in the main. Carthage looks like it should be an interesting map. PvT probably will see a lot of proxies; it looks like it will be hard to flank a Terran push so we might see a lot of recalls or carriers.
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
t_co
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States702 Posts
January 09 2009 17:03 GMT
#25
Jesus... 6 gasses per player for Carthage?
"Look, don't congratulate us when we buy a company, congratulate us when we sell it. Because any fool can overpay and buy a company, so long as there is money to buy it." --Henry Kravis
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
January 09 2009 17:19 GMT
#26
On January 10 2009 00:19 MrHoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2009 00:18 Wonders wrote:
It looks like the mapmakers are trying to make maps better for zerg. Can someone confirm that there's only 7 patches in the main on Carthage?

yeah I count 7. It looks like 5 because the picture got minimized but I am pretty sure it is 7.

Really? Seven is very interesting.

Let's see how Z fares on this map.
stambe
Profile Joined May 2005
Bulgaria492 Posts
January 09 2009 17:43 GMT
#27
I dont want to change the subject, but does anyone have Byzantium 2.21 since that what MSL has been using lately, but only v.2.2 is available for download?
Valks rulzz
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
January 09 2009 17:46 GMT
#28
On January 10 2009 02:19 village_idiot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2009 00:19 MrHoon wrote:
On January 10 2009 00:18 Wonders wrote:
It looks like the mapmakers are trying to make maps better for zerg. Can someone confirm that there's only 7 patches in the main on Carthage?

yeah I count 7. It looks like 5 because the picture got minimized but I am pretty sure it is 7.

Really? Seven is very interesting.

Let's see how Z fares on this map.
There is definitely 8 mineral patches, not 7
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
January 09 2009 17:48 GMT
#29
Oh shit Carthage looks AWESOME I can't wait for the MSL to commence. Bisu is gonna get dismantled on Carthage hardcore.
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6180 Posts
January 09 2009 18:02 GMT
#30
Oh god, pussy zergs needed new maps to win.
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 18:13:44
January 09 2009 18:13 GMT
#31
On January 10 2009 03:02 Piste wrote:
Oh god, pussy zergs needed new maps to win.


As things are right now it's more like protoss needed a challenge.
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5725 Posts
January 09 2009 18:34 GMT
#32
lotta gas..

and p cant wall off the third as easily in pvt. awesome.
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 18:39:52
January 09 2009 18:39 GMT
#33
I like the 2 paths separated by the temples in Carthage. Reminds me a tad of Monty Hall.
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
January 09 2009 18:40 GMT
#34
Carthage looks like an interesting map. Counter attacks look quite viable.
ExaltedElegance
Profile Joined December 2008
United States81 Posts
January 09 2009 19:21 GMT
#35
All in plan for sAviOr to destroy everyone in 2009.
True beauty is micro in Starcraft.
KreaGata
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1702 Posts
January 09 2009 19:33 GMT
#36
Ah, was hoping for 2 new maps, not one new and one remake. Still, Carthage looks very promising, and perhaps thew new Byzantium will be better for Z!
the truest opportunists thrive in the maelstrom
Pioneer
Profile Joined December 2008
994 Posts
January 09 2009 19:35 GMT
#37
I wonder when the DL for Carthage will be up.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
January 09 2009 19:59 GMT
#38
On January 10 2009 00:19 RaGe wrote:
Wow, I like Carthage. It's going to be a huge proxyfest PvT though.


Seriously, so many sneaky places to put your buildings
^-^
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
January 09 2009 20:00 GMT
#39
On January 10 2009 04:59 Equinox_kr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2009 00:19 RaGe wrote:
Wow, I like Carthage. It's going to be a huge proxyfest PvT though.


Seriously, so many sneaky places to put your buildings

This was my very first thought
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 20:08:11
January 09 2009 20:05 GMT
#40
On January 10 2009 03:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
I like the 2 paths separated by the temples in Carthage. Reminds me a tad of Monty Hall.


Lets see how many temples are there XD, looks good... Will make carrier or arbiter a fucking bitch for T but we will see, this means terran will have to end the batlel on mid game or T is fuck, also P will proxy like hell to avoid the mid game deadly push by T...

Zerg is going to own shit with so many gas XD

Also in Byazntinum the change is that they place the patch that took from natural to the mineral only and they move a litlel the extractors on the 3 and 9 expansions O.O
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
January 09 2009 20:09 GMT
#41
anyone notice the dimensions for Carthage? It's 112x128
blabberrrrr
clazziquai
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
6685 Posts
January 09 2009 20:10 GMT
#42
Carthage looks like you can proxy a lot in various parts of the map.
Also, it looks like another macro map though, the 3rd is very very easy to secure in TvP/ZvP.
#1 Sea.Really Fan / #1 Nesh Fan / Terran Forever~
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
January 09 2009 20:28 GMT
#43
On January 09 2009 22:37 MrHoon wrote:
wow. Seems like the Zerg player complains have come to their attention once again

Both maps look Zerg friendly, especially the new Byzantium

you are crazy, zvp is impossible on byzantium; across all versions zergs are 3-10 and those wins have come over Tester, BestGod, and BackHo.
brood war for life, brood war forever
Descent
Profile Joined January 2008
1244 Posts
January 09 2009 22:43 GMT
#44
On January 10 2009 05:09 blabber wrote:
anyone notice the dimensions for Carthage? It's 112x128

Yeah, I noticed and was wondering about that, too. Also, the map maker was the same as Byzantium's creator? It's probably trivial, but I wonder if there's anything significant about that fact -- e.g., is the Korean professional map making community shrinking?
「 Dream & Future 」 ※ 「 STX SouL 」
SlickR12345
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Macedonia408 Posts
January 09 2009 22:53 GMT
#45
less minerals in this new version of buzantium, mauby even less gas?

Otherwise positions and everything is same!
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 22:58:59
January 09 2009 22:58 GMT
#46
Carthage looking cool, Byzantium proabably still not so good, but maybe the mineral patches will have an effect.
Writerman what
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
January 09 2009 23:37 GMT
#47
WTF why is carthage not desert tileset???
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-11 09:29:25
January 11 2009 09:28 GMT
#48
In PvT gas is more necessary for Terran for Tanks/Gols then Protoss (dragoons), so this MU might have advantage for Terran

Also, so little snow tilesets :'(
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
mIsUZu
Profile Joined August 2008
New Zealand528 Posts
January 11 2009 09:45 GMT
#49
wow the maps look ridiculously bad for protoss..

guess they trying to balance things out with 6dragons in imbal mode and all..
Why So Serious?!
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
January 11 2009 10:10 GMT
#50
On January 10 2009 07:43 Descent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2009 05:09 blabber wrote:
anyone notice the dimensions for Carthage? It's 112x128

Yeah, I noticed and was wondering about that, too. Also, the map maker was the same as Byzantium's creator? It's probably trivial, but I wonder if there's anything significant about that fact -- e.g., is the Korean professional map making community shrinking?
nope! it just happens to be the same guy
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51507 Posts
January 11 2009 10:20 GMT
#51
CyGnus is MBC's official map creator like how Rose.of.Dream is OGN's.

All the others are contracted to KeSPA AFAIK.
Commentator
Puosu
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
6992 Posts
January 11 2009 10:27 GMT
#52
On January 11 2009 19:20 GTR-2-Go wrote:
CyGnus is MBC's official map creator like how Rose.of.Dream is OGN's.

All the others are contracted to KeSPA AFAIK.

Any idea about the "officiality" of their job, can they do it for living or is it more of a hobby?
ambit!ous1
Profile Joined September 2007
United States3662 Posts
January 11 2009 10:30 GMT
#53
carthage sure looks cool
Bisu[Shield] / ♔ SoYeon
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51507 Posts
January 11 2009 10:30 GMT
#54
On January 11 2009 19:27 Puosu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2009 19:20 GTR-2-Go wrote:
CyGnus is MBC's official map creator like how Rose.of.Dream is OGN's.

All the others are contracted to KeSPA AFAIK.

Any idea about the "officiality" of their job, can they do it for living or is it more of a hobby?


My guesses is that they get paid x for each map they make and depending on the quality of it they get a y bonus.
Commentator
YEAHHHH BOIIII
Profile Joined September 2008
United States238 Posts
January 11 2009 10:32 GMT
#55
On January 10 2009 05:28 Crunchums wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2009 22:37 MrHoon wrote:
wow. Seems like the Zerg player complains have come to their attention once again

Both maps look Zerg friendly, especially the new Byzantium

you are crazy, zvp is impossible on byzantium; across all versions zergs are 3-10 and those wins have come over Tester, BestGod, and BackHo.

I'm not going to deny existence of imbalance, but Byzantium is 0-7 for Zergs while Byzantium II is 3-3. Surely the changes had to have an effect?
WOWWWWWWWWWW | Leta will win the diamond mouse
Kentor *
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5784 Posts
January 15 2009 09:13 GMT
#56
can we download carthage yet?
FaCE_1
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada6182 Posts
January 15 2009 11:08 GMT
#57
On January 15 2009 18:13 Kentor wrote:
can we download carthage yet?

from OP:

Maps will be available to download on the 15th (first day of MSL)
n_n
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
January 15 2009 11:31 GMT
#58
On January 15 2009 20:08 FaCE_1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2009 18:13 Kentor wrote:
can we download carthage yet?

from OP:

Maps will be available to download on the 15th (first day of MSL)


It's january 15th

at least if you're in asia lol
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Normal
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