On December 18 2008 14:56 RisingTide wrote: Zerg walls are simply the best. Seriously, they make me more excited than a Korean commentator when a scarab is heading towards a probe line.
Anyway, today I was bored and didn't have anything better to do, so I thought to myself, "Geez, Zerg always complain about securing a third gas on Medusa against zeal/archon timing attacks, I wonder if anything similar to this is possible?"
I took 40 minutes to sate my own curiosity, and then decided that I wanted to share it with this community, from which I've lurked so much knowledge! So I made an account and without further adieu I present my Medusa walls:
The evolution chamber is optional. That egg below the main hatchery forces zealots and archons all the way around the extractor to get to sunkens. However, by placing the evolution chamber there, in combination with the egg, the expansion is completely sealed off, meaning the protoss is going to need to hack down a building to get in, which simply wont happen with 3 sunkens and ~10 mutas standing behind.
By using the larva-to-the-left trick on the leftmost hatchery and morphing an egg, the left side is sealed off. There is still a gap between the rightmost hatchery and the hydralisk den however, and I'm not sure if it's possible to get a larva to that gap to block it, although a lurker egg seals it up nice and good. The extractor is also a little exposed in this one, but if you have mutas it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
I also did similar walls on the natural expansions, prompted by the person above worrying about the nat being targeted instead, but it just occurred to me that you want units to be able to leave your natural, so i'll have to redo those at a later date.
Anyway, I welcome improvements/(constructive)criticism, so let me know what you think. I may do some other popular maps at a later date if I feel like it.
Nice walls on Medusa! However, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the timing on that "fourth" on Medusa is somewhat later than the third on Destination, so would it be likely to have two hatcheries *and* a den there? Jaedong lost the game before the fourth even came up.
On December 18 2008 15:29 Carefree Me wrote: Nice walls on Medusa! However, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the timing on that "fourth" on Medusa is somewhat later than the third on Destination, so would it be likely to have two hatcheries *and* a den there? Jaedong lost the game before the fourth even came up.
That was the game against Tempest right? I'll have to watch that game again to check the timing and teching of it all. I was thinking it may even be possible to place that fourth as a third, before the mineral only round the back, using the same build that Shark did against Reach.
Everyone should always aim to maximize the things they do the most. Good job on spreading the word. It makes logical sense to use your structures in the most effecient and productive ways. Terrans definitely learnt to vs Protoss, some ingenious base layouts on Blue Storm come to mind OO, Zerg should do the same.
On December 18 2008 15:18 parkin wrote: SimCity Zerg nice!
Heh, too much Tetris when I was younger...
Ok, against Tempest, Jaedong went 5-hatch hydra, 2nd at his nat, 3rd at his min only, 4th in his main and 5th at the fourth location (I hope that doesn't just confuse me...) If he went 2nd at nat, 3rd at fourth position, 4th at nat, 5th at fourth position, foregoing the min only until later, then it's possible the buildings would've been up in time to be a wall for a timing attack at around the 8-minute mark (assuming he used his evo chamber to help at his nat). Sunkens may not even be necessary if you place range upgraded hydras behind.
On December 19 2008 06:53 SuperJongMan wrote: Sim City Zerg is sooo gay -_-; We must burn this knowledge. BURN IT. Add in a lurker and a spore and you have invinci-mode.
FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE!
Quit Whining I for one give props to Rising Tide for the walls! I think I'll actually play as zerg o medusa cause of this excitement
On December 19 2008 08:18 Nytefish wrote: I could imagine something like this happening 5 years ago:
"In the future we'll be talking about wall-ins for all races!" "Stop your newbie theorycrafting, thread closed."
"Protoss wall-ins?!? Protoss FAST expansions!?!?! HERETIC!"
Well, it's 40 degrees Celsius here at the moment, so I decided to sit in front of my laptop with a fan pointed at my face and do some more walls because, let's face it, this is more useful than playing tetris.
Nothing new here. This is the same as Shark used against Reach. It requires an egg to be morphed but still allows zealots between the hatch and hydra den.
Morphing that egg there completely seals it off, meaning that zealots and archons have to meander through the drone line to get to the sunkens. The lower sunken should probably be repositioned, don't know where to however.
That sunken sort of has to go in the middle of the drone line, as otherwise a 'toss could hit the gas and far right drones. Otherwise it's a complete seal.
9'o'clock is the annoying step-child of the bunch. It would be perfect except for 2 tiles of buildable ground that creep simply won't spread to, so the second hatch and hydra den have to be swapped around and a little bit of larva positioning has to go on. Shift the second hatchery's larva to the left and leave the main one's to the south and you should be able get one where an egg stops zealot incursions. A third sunken may need to go in the drone line as well.
And did you know that it's possible to kill a larva by timing the building of a building in the direction the larva is crawling? It's similar to crushing a siege tank with a barracks. Also, somehow it's possible to kill 2 larva by grouping 3 with a zealot at 12 on Destination and spamming 's'. I haven't been able to reproduce this however....
Edit: I'd really like suggestions for other maps to do this on, typically ones where holding a third base against a timing attack is difficult.
I think SuperJongMan should post a link to this thread in his PvZ bible translation, putting this as a header: "DaVinci Code". Every zerg on ICCUP should read this! I'm so glad we don't have to resort to something like a 3 hatch lurker/muta build to counter this :D.
Btw, has there been any new developments on countering this archon/+1 speedlot push? Developments on any new maps, new counters, new wall-ins on existing maps, VODs of progamers using this as a counter? Hopefully (or hopefully not) we'll see the toss player in Jaedong's MST group try it. I haven't seen this timing push used since the Jangbi vs Zero match.
ETA: I didn't realize this thread was in the broodwar section and not the strategy section.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo225/TheRisingTide/7o3rd.png)
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But what if reach had gone for the natural like horang2 vs ggplay?
I for one give props to Rising Tide for the walls! I think I'll actually play as zerg o medusa cause of this excitement![[image loading]](http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo225/TheRisingTide/Dest12o3rd.png)
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