oh come ON! Terran will be at 4-5 bases before you can say cat and a half. Add a dropship to that and he can easily crawl onto the next main area.

I hope I'm a poor analysist and someone proves me dead wrong. The only comfort I can find is that the center at least isn't buildable and pushing across opens up to some flanking.

tracer

Korea (South)693 Posts

August 04 2008 09:22 GMT

#24

There've been way too many twilight maps in the past year or so, with Monty Hall, Blue Storm, Othello, Wuthering, RotK and now this. They should make an ice map. Haven't seen one of those since Hitchhiker, and it would be breath of fresh air instead of seeing blue all the time.

Ivs

Australia139 Posts

August 04 2008 09:24 GMT

#25

Byzantium = Reverse RotK

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

August 04 2008 09:26 GMT

#26

woooo a terran map

its been a while!

Kentor

United States5784 Posts

August 04 2008 09:33 GMT

#27

On August 04 2008 18:22 tracer wrote:
There've been way too many twilight maps in the past year or so, with Monty Hall, Blue Storm, Othello, Wuthering, RotK and now this. They should make an ice map. Haven't seen one of those since Hitchhiker, and it would be breath of fresh air instead of seeing blue all the time.

they really need jungle maps also. all we got is athena and hwarangdo and we only occasionally see it being played. as for snow maps, im not a big fan of grass mixed with white stuff

meegrean

Thailand7699 Posts

August 04 2008 09:38 GMT

#28

GG Protoss.

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

August 04 2008 09:52 GMT

#29

until lategame anyway

good luck vs carriers

GTR

51451 Posts

August 04 2008 10:15 GMT

#30

purposeful conspiracy by both ogn and mbc to break the legend of the fall and turning it into legend of the terran.

Vasoline73

United States7801 Posts

August 04 2008 10:22 GMT

#31

I'm sick of Twilight tileset... it's starting to look so stale

ForAdun

Germany986 Posts

August 04 2008 10:50 GMT

#32

I don't see any imbalances on this map. I like it.

IdrA

United States11541 Posts

August 04 2008 10:56 GMT

#33

On August 04 2008 18:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
until lategame anyway

good luck vs carriers

lategame?
14 nex into 2 base carrier
't map'

Flopgun

Germany274 Posts

August 04 2008 10:57 GMT

#34

The map looks very bad for pvt, but remember reverse temple? PvT: 8-3 (72.7%)

The reverse ramps are very very bad for terran against protoss, they will have most of the time a disadvantage until midgame, ther push wont be that strong like on other maps.

calgar

United States1277 Posts

August 04 2008 10:59 GMT

#35

Hmmm I kind of like the look of it at first impression.

Uraeus

France1378 Posts

August 04 2008 11:04 GMT

#36

It has already been said a lot, but I too think this map sucks for Protoss.
Turtle Terrans will have a ball there. Most bases are too easy to defend, and there is no room to flank your opponent. Not to mention the long cliffs for siege tanks.
I hope the players prove me wrong.

SilverSkyLark

Philippines8437 Posts

August 04 2008 11:23 GMT

#37

I like the way defending expansions can eventually give map control and vice versa. The eventual 4th bases are attackable only on one side which is easy to defend. Any turtle terran wouldn't get a game off this map.

Dyllyn

Singapore670 Posts

August 04 2008 11:26 GMT

#38

to the people saying gg toss.. i'd like to see terran defend their nat and 3rd vs carrier

Uraeus

France1378 Posts

August 04 2008 11:42 GMT

#39

The nat looks very vulberable to carriers (and mutas) for sure. But imo, before carriers arrive in sufficient amounts, Terrans can have 2 and probably 3 bases with gas that are easy to defend with a few sieged tanks. From there, any turtle Terran can upgrade like mad and have a sizeable force to defend, even against carriers.

Nightmarjoo

United States3360 Posts

August 04 2008 12:32 GMT

#40

On August 04 2008 17:53 alffla wrote:

Show nested quote +

but but those crystals are like so far away from the nat.

and if they relaly wnated to stack they could use the nat's mineral patches.

and im sure nowadays every progamer knows how to use overlord/larva/zergling stacking tricks -__-;; (i dont believe that guy in idra's courage group didnt know how to stack. maybe he used larva and built sth and lost the larva in the ctrlgruop. w/e.)

maybe khaydarin formations can be destroyeD?

It's an adaptation to editor difficulties.
High basillica (and like terrains, e.g. high temple, high compound) cannot touch the edge of a high dirt cliff. A low dirt hole obviously can, but it wouldn't hide vision like the high basillica does, and thus make the ovy spot far less or not at all effective. You can approach this problem in two ways: 1. is to fill it in with neutrals. To avoid pathing issues, you use an indestructible neutral (the crystal) and place impassable doodads under the neutral which you can't see. It sticks out like a sore thumb, but not too badly, especially on twilight (blue and blue look ok together). 2. Is to use MASSIVE tile editing similar to what's done in + Show Spoiler +

and

. It takes a LOT of work, and a LOT of time, and with enough work will look "normal", and won't stick out at all, but any laziness will result in ugly tile placement shit, which looks terrible (e.g. the tiles in longinus near the ramp in the middle, which the ramp writes over because the author is a fucking dumbass/lazy asshole, or the tiles which fill in tank holes in zodiac which don't look normal at all). 1. Is far easier and takes almost no time at all, but 2. is the optimum decision, in an ideal world.

On August 04 2008 18:26 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
woooo a terran map

its been a while!

Colosseum, Othello?

I like how it looks like you can tank the 3rd gas from the nat at 12/6 but not at 3/9. Also, the differences in the main gas position will result in slight differences in mining time. Korean mapping at its finest.
I dunno why the 3rd gas is placed where it is, leaving the wasted space beside it closer to the edge of the map.

Overall though, the map is ok I think. I think the expo layout being as spread as it is helps protoss a lot more than you guys are crediting. Terran doesn't just get free 4 bases. They kind of get a free 3rd, othello-esque-ish, where it's easily harassable, but this one has no gas. The multiple paths I think will also help protoss a lot here. In my opinion, there's a lot to potentially warrant a p>t map here :O

For zvt, the 3rd gas imo is kind of hardish, a second main seems farther than usual, with the 3rd gas expo being kind of far too. However the main/nat setup I feel gives zerg a lot of flexibility with muta harass, and the many paths help with flanking a lot. I can see crazy zerg being popular here.

I think the map is flat-out z>p though, despite some things being protoss friendly. I think the expo layout being so spread will be hard on p in pvz, while it gives zerg a lot of freedom and flexibility in choosing where to expo. The many paths help zerg a lot, even if the map is not terribly open. But I also feel that zvp is the biggest mu where player-balance is more important than map-balance, which should help counter what looks to me to be z>p imbalance.

The map reminds me of an inverted Faoi in places, without islands, with a 3rd gas expo, and with an extra ramp going to the middle. I was considering making an inverted Faoi, thinking it would help make the middle less dominating, but I think if I did so now people'd tell me I made a Byzantine clone :O