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Carefree
United States1571 Posts
Byzantium will be used for the winners/losers games in the next MSL Survivor tournament. OP will be updated once download link is posted. [mod edit: changed the picture to one hosted on tl - resolution is not as good as the mapdori picture, but once the mapdori pic comes back I'll rehost it on TL] Edit: I reuploaded the hi-res image to imageshack, which should work. Feel free to replace that with a TL hosted version once it's up. | ||
jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
Zergs are going to mutaharass the natural. Protoss will just suffer. | ||
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
I like these new maps. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11552 Posts
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Jonteman
Sweden644 Posts
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Specialist
United States803 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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.kaz
1963 Posts
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
 (not to mention they're also BAD ) | ||
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NerveGaming
Korea (South)36 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/6821/bizantium2di2.jpg) Parts in red = big concern for players. A lot of Terran players will abuse that with drop harass going back and forth along with pushing. Should change the ramp location a bit. | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
this map looks so...old school -_-;;??? | ||
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
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Piste
6180 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
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useLess
United States4781 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
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.kaz
1963 Posts
On August 04 2008 17:37 alffla wrote: i wonder whats the point of having that random wall and khaydarin crystal formation crap near the nat lol - _-a Maybe something for mutas to use to stack on quickly before harass? | ||
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On August 04 2008 17:39 .kaz wrote: Maybe something for mutas to use to stack on quickly before harass? but but those crystals are like so far away from the nat. and if they relaly wnated to stack they could use the nat's mineral patches. and im sure nowadays every progamer knows how to use overlord/larva/zergling stacking tricks -__-;; (i dont believe that guy in idra's courage group didnt know how to stack. maybe he used larva and built sth and lost the larva in the ctrlgruop. w/e.) maybe khaydarin formations can be destroyeD? | ||
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SlickR12345
Macedonia408 Posts
These days its all about easy to defend maps. | ||
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traced
1739 Posts
hopefully i'll be proven wrong | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
I hope I'm a poor analysist and someone proves me dead wrong. The only comfort I can find is that the center at least isn't buildable and pushing across opens up to some flanking. | ||
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tracer
Korea (South)693 Posts
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Ivs
Australia139 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
its been a while! | ||
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On August 04 2008 18:22 tracer wrote: There've been way too many twilight maps in the past year or so, with Monty Hall, Blue Storm, Othello, Wuthering, RotK and now this. They should make an ice map. Haven't seen one of those since Hitchhiker, and it would be breath of fresh air instead of seeing blue all the time. they really need jungle maps also. all we got is athena and hwarangdo and we only occasionally see it being played. as for snow maps, im not a big fan of grass mixed with white stuff | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
good luck vs carriers | ||
GTR
51497 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States7816 Posts
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On August 04 2008 18:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: until lategame anyway good luck vs carriers lategame? 14 nex into 2 base carrier 't map' | ||
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Flopgun
Germany274 Posts
The reverse ramps are very very bad for terran against protoss, they will have most of the time a disadvantage until midgame, ther push wont be that strong like on other maps. | ||
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calgar
United States1277 Posts
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Uraeus
France1378 Posts
Turtle Terrans will have a ball there. Most bases are too easy to defend, and there is no room to flank your opponent. Not to mention the long cliffs for siege tanks. I hope the players prove me wrong. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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Dyllyn
Singapore670 Posts
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Uraeus
France1378 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On August 04 2008 17:53 alffla wrote: but but those crystals are like so far away from the nat. and if they relaly wnated to stack they could use the nat's mineral patches. and im sure nowadays every progamer knows how to use overlord/larva/zergling stacking tricks -__-;; (i dont believe that guy in idra's courage group didnt know how to stack. maybe he used larva and built sth and lost the larva in the ctrlgruop. w/e.) maybe khaydarin formations can be destroyeD? It's an adaptation to editor difficulties. High basillica (and like terrains, e.g. high temple, high compound) cannot touch the edge of a high dirt cliff. A low dirt hole obviously can, but it wouldn't hide vision like the high basillica does, and thus make the ovy spot far less or not at all effective. You can approach this problem in two ways: 1. is to fill it in with neutrals. To avoid pathing issues, you use an indestructible neutral (the crystal) and place impassable doodads under the neutral which you can't see. It sticks out like a sore thumb, but not too badly, especially on twilight (blue and blue look ok together). 2. Is to use MASSIVE tile editing similar to what's done in + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/end_field.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/metapod.JPG) and ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/Spring.jpg) On August 04 2008 18:26 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: woooo a terran map its been a while! Colosseum, Othello? I like how it looks like you can tank the 3rd gas from the nat at 12/6 but not at 3/9. Also, the differences in the main gas position will result in slight differences in mining time. Korean mapping at its finest. I dunno why the 3rd gas is placed where it is, leaving the wasted space beside it closer to the edge of the map. Overall though, the map is ok I think. I think the expo layout being as spread as it is helps protoss a lot more than you guys are crediting. Terran doesn't just get free 4 bases. They kind of get a free 3rd, othello-esque-ish, where it's easily harassable, but this one has no gas. The multiple paths I think will also help protoss a lot here. In my opinion, there's a lot to potentially warrant a p>t map here :O For zvt, the 3rd gas imo is kind of hardish, a second main seems farther than usual, with the 3rd gas expo being kind of far too. However the main/nat setup I feel gives zerg a lot of flexibility with muta harass, and the many paths help with flanking a lot. I can see crazy zerg being popular here. I think the map is flat-out z>p though, despite some things being protoss friendly. I think the expo layout being so spread will be hard on p in pvz, while it gives zerg a lot of freedom and flexibility in choosing where to expo. The many paths help zerg a lot, even if the map is not terribly open. But I also feel that zvp is the biggest mu where player-balance is more important than map-balance, which should help counter what looks to me to be z>p imbalance. The map reminds me of an inverted Faoi in places, without islands, with a 3rd gas expo, and with an extra ramp going to the middle. I was considering making an inverted Faoi, thinking it would help make the middle less dominating, but I think if I did so now people'd tell me I made a Byzantine clone :O | ||
Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
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RaGe
Belgium9949 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
Anyway I liked it, looks fun to watch and as far as I could see pretty balanced. | ||
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Ra.Xor.2
United States1784 Posts
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On August 04 2008 16:15 jkillashark wrote: Terrans are going to abuse cliffing. Zergs are going to mutaharass the natural. Protoss will just suffer. Well it makes it good for carriers later on ... | ||
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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FaZ-
United States187 Posts
Blue Storm gave some very interesting and unique games, hopefully this will be able to do the same. | ||
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sqwert
United States781 Posts
On August 04 2008 16:34 blabber wrote: i am sooo tired of Twilight maps we need more char-like maps | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
no, we don't. Ash is like the worst tileset ever next to installation. Hard to see ramps, inflexible, not a lot of options for the mapmakers, etc. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32277 Posts
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shavingcream66
United States1219 Posts
:/ | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2934 Posts
On August 06 2008 09:12 anotak wrote: no, we don't. Ash is like the worst tileset ever next to installation. Hard to see ramps, inflexible, not a lot of options for the mapmakers, etc. Requiem, Xeno Sky, Chariots of fire... plus korean mapmakers can do so much crazy stuff. | ||
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On August 04 2008 17:37 alffla wrote: i wonder whats the point of having that random wall and khaydarin crystal formation crap near the nat lol - _-a I'm thinking it can't be extremely important but it looks like it could be destroyed and have vults/HT/lurk run through the smaller side to harass nat workers. Although it looks like the space for units to fit though is bigger at 2 o clock and 8 o clock crystals then 11 o clock and 5 o clock EDIT: and no DamageControl, other people have mentioned the reverse LT thing already | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
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Helio
United States82 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 06 2008 09:12 anotak wrote: Uhh variation> flexibility. No more twilight, or jungle please. Badlands is a great tileset, installation is fairly decent, desert is pretty poor but still acceptable. no, we don't. Ash is like the worst tileset ever next to installation. Hard to see ramps, inflexible, not a lot of options for the mapmakers, etc. On August 06 2008 10:00 DamageControL wrote: The first map I thought of actually, was reverse lt. am i the only one who thinks it looks like reverse lt?  | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
I don't see how PvT can be played on this map :< Balls out, Mantoss style. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On August 04 2008 17:08 Naib wrote: Old rehashed concepts in every new map, boring (not to mention they're also BAD )Yea, but then look at the Bacchus OSL, the worst OSL to ever grace SC. Personal and Sherwood Forest, when a brand new macro map produces OSLs like the most recent one, which was very exciting. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
On August 06 2008 09:50 oshibori_probe wrote: Requiem, Xeno Sky, Chariots of fire... plus korean mapmakers can do so much crazy stuff. Notice how none of those maps have any reverse ramps on them On August 06 2008 10:43 Grobyc wrote: I'm thinking it can't be extremely important but it looks like it could be destroyed and have vults/HT/lurk run through the smaller side to harass nat workers. Although it looks like the space for units to fit though is bigger at 2 o clock and 8 o clock crystals then 11 o clock and 5 o clock EDIT: and no DamageControl, other people have mentioned the reverse LT thing already it's not destroyable. it's to fix the gap that's caused by the higher terrain on the high terrain, the higher terrain being there for an overlord spot for zerg players On August 06 2008 11:03 Dazed_Spy wrote: Uhh variation> flexibility. No more twilight, or jungle please. Badlands is a great tileset, installation is fairly decent, desert is pretty poor but still acceptable. installation isn't even buildable. Desert is good, badlands isn't bad at all, i agree that those two are underused. I personally prefer Space and Jungle by far. But ash is incredibly bad. | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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MyStiC_Chaos
United States499 Posts
Where's Snow/Ice? I'd like to see a new one soon. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32084 Posts
and about tileset themes, pleaseeee start making more desert or ice maps!! | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On August 04 2008 21:43 Chill wrote: I like it. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 07 2008 04:54 anotak wrote: Yeah my bad, meant Space not installation. Notice how none of those maps have any reverse ramps on them it's not destroyable. it's to fix the gap that's caused by the higher terrain on the high terrain, the higher terrain being there for an overlord spot for zerg players installation isn't even buildable. Desert is good, badlands isn't bad at all, i agree that those two are underused. I personally prefer Space and Jungle by far. But ash is incredibly bad. | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
On August 08 2008 07:43 pachi wrote: Download if you still havn't got it yet IT'S JUST A BLANK PAGE FOR MEEE! T___T Edit: nvm i just went to intothemap's homepage and located Byzanthium myself! thx tho! xD | ||
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On August 07 2008 16:58 DrainX wrote: Byzantium reminds me of a really old map where I think GARIMTO played ElkY or something. Started out with proxy reaver behind the terrans base and then moved onto a late game where lots of archons were used. This has to be 2002 or before... does anyone remember the game or the map im talking about? | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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Realpenguin
8253 Posts
On August 08 2008 15:52 DrainX wrote: Just quoting what I wrote in the news article: might be this map: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/80_Neo_Vertigo The first games on Byzantium were quite epic though. | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
On August 08 2008 07:43 pachi wrote: Download if you still havn't got it yet download link doesn't work and I can't read the korean o the website | ||
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1544/bizantiumai0.jpg)
