• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:06
CEST 14:06
KST 21:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 292Serral wins Maestros of the Game 240ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) What is your PC setup in 2026 for SCBW/SC2 ? Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026
Tourneys
GSL CK #5 Race War WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3205 users

Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands5672 Posts
1 hour ago
#21
I imagined JD must have had old hurt from Match Point for him to speak out like this, but TLPD doesn't show anything like that. I guess ASL_Champ_Rush affected JD in a bad way.

And of course it's in ASL's interest to at least make the gimmick map work out in favor of the race/player they would like to win. It's never good if the same race wins multiple times in a row. That said it's hard to rely on Snow Mini Best reaching, and winning the finals. The amount of times those 3 have crushed my hopes to finally have a proper Protoss champ...
FBH #1!
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11295 Posts
22 minutes ago
#22
I love that the good ol' tradition of crying about map balance is alive and well
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
doktordingerdonger
Profile Joined October 2025
125 Posts
18 minutes ago
#23
On July 13 2026 15:14 NoS-Craig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2026 05:32 doktordingerdonger wrote:
Only goes to show how zergs who are able to compete are just Gigachads that are built differently. The only zergs that are able to compete the past years were SK and then Soma.

75% terrans last ASL, and the best terran was a guy with a fucked up wrist who 4-0 Light. They have zero gigachads. Even Flash resorted to macro cheese while still benefitting from mapsagi and tesagi. Typical virgin terran behavior.

Tulbo and Snow made it farther than any other protoss. Of course they did not have any gigachad since Reach retired.

Jane Doe and Match Point were basically free win for protoss/terran, and yet they did not win.

At some point you should not balance according to the eventual winner or the ASL final, who are the biggest outliers in skill, but the average high skill. Those who win will be huge outliers anyway to everyone, and they will win no matter what the map pool will be. The current balance philosophy of trying to balance the race of the eventual winner will only mess up balance at the lower levels of the skill distribution.


LOL you really take this seriously don't you?


Snow confirmed that Soma and SK are just gigachads that are built differently.

c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11295 Posts
6 minutes ago
#24
JD, SoulKey and 910 mentioning the lack of protoss presence reminds me of how they talked about Reach's rise to fame; established pros GARIMTO and Kingdom (temporarily) retired, ZeuS was barely making it to leagues while Nal_rA was still an amateur.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
doktordingerdonger
Profile Joined October 2025
125 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-07-13 12:05:56
1 minute ago
#25
On July 13 2026 15:17 Rainalcar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2026 13:49 chongu wrote:
My biggest surprise other than JD complaining about maps, is that Matchpoint is anti-zerg. I tot it was one of the most balanced maps.

I took a look at liquipedia, 2242 matches: ZvP 47.7%. PvT 52.3%, ZvT 54.0%. Isn't it pretty close to 50%.


910 should have quoted this.


I dunno if you guys are doing it on purpose, but these stats are match point since 2009. We are talking about current balance with new builds etc.

From recent eloboard.com data

Z: 261 wins 298 losses (46.7%) P: 242 wins 167 losses (59.2%) T: 216 wins 254 losses (46.0%)

ZT: 165 wins 145 losses (53.2%) TZ: 145 wins 165 losses (46.8%)
ZP: 96 wins 153 losses (38.6%) PZ: 153 wins 96 losses (61.4%)
PT: 89 wins 71 losses (55.6%) TP: 71 wins 89 losses (44.4%)

This map makes shuttle look like prime Bisu.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
11:00
GSL CK #5 - Day 2
Trap vs INnoVationLIVE!
Ryung 296
CranKy Ducklings SOOP136
herO (SOOP)75
SHIN 65
Classic57
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 296
OGKoka 289
SortOf 203
herO (SOOP) 75
SHIN 65
Classic 57
Rex 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26665
Sea 3953
Rain 2398
Bisu 1793
Horang2 823
Shuttle 794
Jaedong 653
actioN 613
Zeus 570
firebathero 532
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 430
Mini 393
BeSt 374
EffOrt 211
Larva 205
Soulkey 188
Light 179
Snow 172
Stork 148
Pusan 94
Rush 80
ggaemo 76
ToSsGirL 53
Soma 52
[sc1f]eonzerg 52
ZerO 50
soO 47
Killer 44
910 39
Sharp 35
Free 31
Shine 30
JYJ 29
Bale 26
yabsab 25
Aegong 23
Movie 20
scan(afreeca) 17
Hm[arnc] 16
sorry 16
Sexy 13
GoRush 13
IntoTheRainbow 5
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
XaKoH 762
XcaliburYe624
League of Legends
JimRising 383
Counter-Strike
byalli305
markeloff140
Other Games
B2W.Neo860
Pyrionflax342
Sick342
Lowko326
crisheroes298
Fuzer 90
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 698
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 525
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 71
• LUISG 39
• mYiSmile19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt723
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
3h 54m
Replay Cast
11h 54m
WardiTV Weekly
22h 54m
The PondCast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
IPSL
5 days
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.