EPTOn February 17 2026 10:59 SCRVN wrote:
I think there is no any complete matchup with P and Z because of their imperfective race.
I think there is no any complete matchup with P and Z because of their imperfective race.
What do you mean?
TvZ is the most complete match up - Page 2
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SiarX
133 Posts
What do you mean? | ||
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SCRVN
158 Posts
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SiarX
133 Posts
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SCRVN
158 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/6R2HgSMt/vfdv1.png) | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8034 Posts
I wouldn’t say that nukes are useless in tvz, and i wouldn’t bet my money that they will never be part of the meta. Totally agree with the OP, TvZ is the most perfect matchup. | ||
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SiarX
133 Posts
On February 17 2026 23:59 SCRVN wrote: Thst`s not enough data to judge... especially since Soulkey changes ASL statistics signifcantly singlehandedly, otherwise zerg would have fared much worse. But here statistics is more close https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/642592-data-analysis-on-70-million-replays https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/617209-data-analysis-on-8-million-games | ||
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1533 Posts
https://tl.net/tlpd/korean/games/12038_Kal_vs_ZerO/vod https://tl.net/tlpd/korean/games/13625_Hwasin_vs_ZerO | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8034 Posts
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SiarX
133 Posts
On February 18 2026 02:53 LUCKY_NOOB wrote: ZerO (now Queen) did Infested Terrans on Holy World SE vs Protosses, but u can argue it's because of the map (has a neutral CC in the middle). https://tl.net/tlpd/korean/games/12038_Kal_vs_ZerO/vod https://tl.net/tlpd/korean/games/13625_Hwasin_vs_ZerO That was 17 years ago though... | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28781 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1201 Posts
PvZ is not nearly as imbalanced as some folks on here claim. And TvZ is not nearly as perfect as some claim. Winrates fluctuate strongly for both matchupa depending on game time power spikes. | ||
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Kraekkling
640 Posts
On February 18 2026 22:30 Liquid`Drone wrote: tvz isn't just the best matchup in brood war, it's the best matchup in any computer game. it's marvelous how asymmetrical the matchup is, playing TvZ and playing ZvT might as well be different games | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10356 Posts
On February 19 2026 03:19 Kraekkling wrote: it's marvelous how asymmetrical the matchup is, playing TvZ and playing ZvT might as well be different games As someone who picked up Zerg this last season of CPL, it was very eye opening how much Zerg has to struggle in the matchup. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8034 Posts
On February 19 2026 04:44 FlaShFTW wrote: As someone who picked up Zerg this last season of CPL, it was very eye opening how much Zerg has to struggle in the matchup. Terran units feel so weak and fragile when you play them and so utterly terrifying when you face them it’s kind of comical. | ||
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Kraekkling
640 Posts
TvZ: nonstop macro because marines are so quick to make, but as a payoff you get the deadliest, most aggressive T1 unit in the game. Your opponent gets a bunch of bullshit which makes your units useless. ZvT: closest to WC3 or something, there’s no economy, no macro, but you get a bunch of hero units you have to babysit all game i.e., the muta stack and later defilers. Your opponent can sit back and never expand and as long as they are mining, they'll be able to produce units which can kill you at all times. Then it’s like 15 minutes of Zerg trying to assemble their super weapon while Terran throws shit at them hoping something sticks. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2356 Posts
On February 17 2026 03:26 .father wrote: It's the most completely shit matchup in the game. Zerg has the best all ins in the game for the matchup and unbeatable lategame. Terran has about a 4 minute window to win the game before they're permanently locked out of any options. welcome to pvz | ||
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.father
15 Posts
Ya I mean zerg is insanely broken, I don't know much about pvz but it looks nearly as bad as tvz. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2356 Posts
On February 20 2026 12:15 .father wrote: Ya I mean zerg is insanely broken, I don't know much about pvz but it looks nearly as bad as tvz. stupidly easy to operate early/mid game compared to T and P, incredible effective comeback mechanics and braindead strategically. | ||
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iopq
United States1068 Posts
On February 16 2026 06:41 SiarX wrote: Well ghosts at least very rarely see use in TvP vs carriers, but in TvZ they are totally useless, so... not exactly complete. Also, did you ever see devourers in TvZ? In ZvZ they are at least used in very rare hive level plays. First of all, nuke rushes are viable against crazy Zerg and we've seen them in tournaments. You build one devourer when you guardian rush to prevent cloaked wraiths from just killing your cliff overlord and hunting your guardians. The devourer shows them and slows their attack They were also used many times on Roaring Currents! The map did not appear in ASL enough, but in pro league people tried everything | ||
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bulbousbrain
13 Posts
On February 17 2026 13:09 Kraekkling wrote: btw in the more recent thread the data sample is ten times as large and some of the graphs have more annotations https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/642592-data-analysis-on-70-million-replays but the conclusion remains the same - Terran does really well vs Zerg also the higher the MMR of both players, the more it is Terran favoured during any point in the game, as seen in the second graph below TvZ vs time + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/wjMsZmy/racial-win-rate-vs-time-tvz.png) TvZ vs time in MMR brackets + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/67t96Lr1/racial-win-rate-vs-time-tvz-selectioncomparison-MMR-Groups.png) At top top level the MU has been solved by Soulkey and Soma. It's been pretty brutal the past few years. Zerg camps, goes Mutas 99% of the time, completely dominates the tempo, Terran has a couple opportunities for timing attacks, if Zerg gets Defiler it's gg. There are enough exceptions to still make it interesting but that's the gist of it. It's boring how much Mutas dominate the MU. All of Terran's openings are about trying to stay alive against Mutas long enough to set up a timing attack. I don't care about the MU between players who are outside, say, top 25-30 in the world cuz BW is damn near a different game at that point. And even that is difficult to test because top 5 vs top 25 is still a huge huge huge advantage for top 5. | ||
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