EPTThere's a lot of parallels between him and Sea actually. Insanely talented, and were super successful at some point in the past, but don't practice hard anymore and aren't nearly a contender threat at their current level.
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ruhtraeel
Canada136 Posts
There's a lot of parallels between him and Sea actually. Insanely talented, and were super successful at some point in the past, but don't practice hard anymore and aren't nearly a contender threat at their current level. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
On August 31 2024 06:19 ruhtraeel wrote: Glad to see people no longer overrating Rain and realizing that his PvT is mediocre at best. There's a lot of parallels between him and Sea actually. Insanely talented, and were super successful at some point in the past, but don't practice hard anymore and aren't nearly a contender threat at their current level. I am of the opinion that Sea and Rain did well in early remastered years(2017-2019) because everyone was less serious about the game, and thus less developed in their skills. Talent alone was enough to be a top competitor. Streaming money was way lower and turning streaming BW into an actual job was not viable for most players. But in late 2019 and early 2020 they found a good format for Proleagues, which slowly started to increase the amount of money available to all players over the following years. Players were able to take the game(+streaming) much more seriously with more money coming in. And with University Leagues being introduced there was even more money coming into Brood war, which meant more freedom to focus on improving and playing full-time for players who otherwise wouldn't be able to financially sustain themselves on Brood war streaming alone. Add that Rain and Sea, who were already making enough money from just streaming with a focus on variety, didn't have the incentive to play more brood war to make their money. They stagnated and got stuck at the level of the early ASL seasons. all the while the others, maybe less talented but way more seriously active, kept developing their skills and the meta to eventually just outpace and outgrow them. And some of these players had equal amounts of talent as Rain and Sea, which means the high volume of play and practice combined resulted into being stronger and better all-round. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/i8rjkg1.png) S -- Soulkey undoubtedly alone belongs here A -- I gotta have one pick that is unreasonable and that's me putting Stork up here. Man he's been so good since May/june during the qualies against Mind he won the exact same type of 3-base timing which he lost against Jyj and was it barracks(?) in the prev 2 starleagues. He showed great vZ strats in daily proleagues. The dilemma: did it just take him this long to figure out the maps? I guess in a couple of days I'll have my answer. Others are, well below soulkey because their results are below soulkey in the last two seasons. B -- Jyj and sharp are just in my opinion this tier. Results may be better in a season or so but I think this is their top capacity. Light is always the greatest marine-macroer vZ but he's similar to Queen, the way I see it they are both post-championship disorder afflicted. Best and bisu must be here due to their handles beginning with B C -- Rain is the ringleader of the post-champion-syndrome kids, Queen is on par, Jd have had hard times, Barracks was in Ro16 last season, I guess for him this is an upward trajectory. Mind might be even too high here, I think he will be eliminated in the Ro24 D -- I watched CNSL and enjoyed Motive's TvP during his champ-run so he definitely deserves a tier above floor. Action and Royal with all their great plays late-game mass emp or sauron zerg, they just rely so heavily on it with not much tactical creativity. One trick ponies with amazing hand-eye coordination! Ysc gets one up because he is better in Kcm now compared to season 1 & 2, if I remember he didn't win once, and got one or two in season 3. Also, he is a cool underdog-type of guy, exactly who I can cheer for. I hope Shine outdoes his tier ranking. E -- ssak, sea, sacsri I don't care about them and they also don't care about good games. Cheeses, rushes lazily, bad decisions with rare glimmers of a well executed attack or drop or something. In the past I was really sympathetic with sea so I'm not saying this out of hate! Free is like appearing once every 3 years or something. It's always a bit worse. I think this season it will be just all-ins failing from him. Noel1127, Speed, honestly I don't know much about these terrans but if they are like an occasional Hiya, Ample, Leta then tier F seems the correct tier to put them. Edit: The problem with Rain is his atrocious vT (even if you discount his travesty final match vs Light in asl14 or 15, it's still very negative) | ||
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TornadoSteve
1132 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
On August 31 2024 13:22 TornadoSteve wrote: Speed is currently playing like a "C" at worst, and has been for a while now. This is SSL tho and not Proleague ranking for example.This is Speed's first time ASL so far and as far as I can see he hasn't even won 1 bo3 vs an established player offline. Last season he lost 2-1 to  815 in the qualies. I expect  Speed to bomb out immediately. Offline is just an entire different beast. To make matters worse Sea will likely be pulling in a big crowd on Monday adding extra pressure probably. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
On August 31 2024 18:38 Peeano wrote: This is SSL tho and not Proleague ranking for example.This is Speed's first time ASL so far and as far as I can see he hasn't even won 1 bo3 vs an established player offline. Last season he lost 2-1 to 815 in the qualies. I expect Speed to bomb out immediately. Offline is just an entire different beast. To make matters worse Sea will likely be pulling in a big crowd on Monday adding extra pressure probably.It is his third ASL. He was in 11 and 17. In 11 he was still in recovery from his Carpal Tunnel. he lost to Action and Best. 17 he lost to Mong and SnOw. But yes. He's yet to have offline success. His online performance though specifically in TvZ is impressive. He's in the position RoyaL was in in 2020-2021 in terms of growth and development. Can he only perform in the comfort of his own home set-up, or can he perform with the on-stage set-up? Things like chair, height, desk material, height of monitor, temperature and such can already ruin one's performance. | ||
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TMNT
3333 Posts
On August 31 2024 00:15 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: to be honest. I think there is a good argument to be made snow is somewhat struggling with the current meta. Snow (and other Protosses) are dying a lot to 2 base pushes from Terrans. I've been observing for a while and it seems like the key to TvP build these days is to cut a lot of things, delay expansion and pump a lot of units from 2 bases and 6 Facts. Reavers are good in medium size battle but once the Terran army hits a certain critical mass they lose their value pretty quick. Snow's play has always relied on Reavers while he's greeding behind that, so he's probably hurt the most with this style from Terran. Scan took a game off Snow in R1 PSL and Bishop almost did the same thing today. Both times they went almost all in on 2 bases and only expanded after 16 minutes. Snow had to play out of his mind to stay in the game and was never able to tech up to storm. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
On August 31 2024 21:26 TMNT wrote: Snow (and other Protosses) are dying a lot to 2 base pushes from Terrans. I've been observing for a while and it seems like the key to TvP build these days is to delay expansion and pump a lot of units from 2 bases and 6 Facts. Reavers are good in medium size battle but once the Terran army hits a certain critical mass they lose their value pretty quick. Snow's play has always relied on Reavers while he's greeding behind that, so he's probably hurt the most with this style from Terran. Scan took a game off Snow in R1 PSL and Bishop almost did the same thing today. Both times they went almost all in on 2 bases and only expanded after 16 minutes. Snow had to play out of his mind to stay in the game and was never able to tech up to storm. Noticed delaying Shuttle+Reaver and going for a more passive goon heavy composition and establishing a 3rd seems to do well vs that 2 base push. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
On August 31 2024 20:59 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: It is his third ASL. He was in 11 and 17. In 11 he was still in recovery from his Carpal Tunnel. he lost to Action and Best. 17 he lost to Mong and SnOw. But yes. He's yet to have offline success. His online performance though specifically in TvZ is impressive. He's in the position RoyaL was in in 2020-2021 in terms of growth and development. Can he only perform in the comfort of his own home set-up, or can he perform with the on-stage set-up? Things like chair, height, desk material, height of monitor, temperature and such can already ruin one's performance. Ooops. I dunno why I didn't see that when checking. Thx for the correction. Yes, it would be awesome if he could be the next RoyaL. Though I'd rather see a new Zerg amerge. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
On September 01 2024 16:52 Peeano wrote: Ooops. I dunno why I didn't see that when checking. Thx for the correction. Yes, it would be awesome if he could be the next RoyaL. Though I'd rather see a new Zerg amerge. We need one of the tier 3 zergs like Calm, Shine, Sacsri, Killer, to hit the next level and consistently stay there. They all have their moments where they perform really well, specifically shine, but they always revert back to their tier 3 performance/level after a while. It is unlikely for one of the tier 4 zergs(BTS, Hyun, MisO, Hm, Artuser, Kante, Beast, Hyuk, ZeloT) to suddenly rise to the next level. They have played a LARGE volume of games over the past 6 years and failed to progress to the next level of skill. Beast seemed to finally break through getting 4th in a super stacked StarcastTV league season 1#, but then reduced his activity by 95% and just shows up for qualifiers or tournaments these days with zero play outside of that. There are some promising ladder players who show potential who would realistically be the new generation of players from amongst whom the next big zerg talent would rise, but they just haven't broken through yet and I think that by now they probably already should have if there was one. There's Absolute, Cola, Iffy, Brori, DDasik, Yerim, Songbale/Gunwook, Yabsab, Timeisgold. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1132 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
Beware, spoilers for Round of 24. https://tiermaker.com/create/ssl1-ro16-tier-lsit-16848610 + Show Spoiler [My round of 16 Tier list] + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/UdgAU5F.png) | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CmmjmIx.png) | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I think I did okay in guessing how players would rank against each other. Naturally that one group with Action-Best-Sea-Speed totally got me too but otherwise: 5 out of 7 F-tier and 4 out of 5 D-tier players are out of the cup. A and B tiers went through except Best. I can see myself having the best entertainment of my life with this mega heavy super cast in the Ro16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/9FkOYPi.png) | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
On September 07 2024 05:20 PVJ wrote: I've also updated mine thanks for the reminder ^RJB + Show Spoiler + I think I did okay in guessing how players would rank against each other. Naturally that one group with Action-Best-Sea-Speed totally got me too but otherwise: 5 out of 7 F-tier and 4 out of 5 D-tier players are out of the cup. A and B tiers went through except Best. I can see myself having the best entertainment of my life with this mega heavy super cast in the Ro16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! + Show Spoiler + yeah I do think we all had a petty good grasp on how the groups would go. There were clear skill gaps and only the Best Action Sea Speed group was a big upset. I think no other groups had upsets that people didn't see as a possibility. For example Barracks over Rain and Queen was semi-expected by most as the group was very uniform in skill. Group with JyJ, Mind, Stork and Free was also rather uniform in skill level, beside Free. Stork JyJ or Mind could realistically come out of that. The group results and recent eloboard rankings has affected my own tier list a little bit. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1132 Posts
SnOw Rush Mini Light Bisu hero Sharp Stork JyJ sOrry Speed Jaedong barracks Rain Sea | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13496 Posts
Bisu, jyj, Mini, Rush, Royal, Sharp Rain, Stork, JD, Speed, Barracks Sea | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
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Teacher-X17
17 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1304 Posts
On September 08 2024 10:53 Teacher-X17 wrote: Can't believe how low people are ranking Stork. With the way he's been playing and dominating over the last few months, he should at least be considered A tier. I can't put him in S yet, but he should definitely be A tier, in my opinion. Stork is a tough one to rank. does he still have it in him to translate his online to his offline performance? the ones i ranked above him have proven themselves many times over the past years. Stork has not yet proven himself capable again. It is why I rank him a bit lower. But i have to acknowledge and agree, he has been awesome online. I ranked him at 9/16. I dont think he will make round of 8, but I do think he will make it to loser final of his group. | ||
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