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hello this is SoulKey Due to personal reasons, I will be withdrawing from SC university I wanted to solve this situation quickly and focus back into streaming and StarCraft University but It seems like it won't be resolved easily as I hoped and it seems messy on law side as well I can't continue streaming which is my livelihood not to mention focus on SC university as well I'm Sorry. Thank you to Nam-soon who listened to my situation even late night and thank you to sona who helped me out and thank you to NSU uni fans until now. I think I will be able to stream November at earliest... link: https://bj.afreecatv.com/minchul/post/93419167
It's believed that soulkey got scammed over his rent deposit this time around. In Korea, while rent is relatively cheap compared to US, they have a system where you deposit significant amount of money in rent deposit in return, often being 100k+ ($200k+ USD is average 8 years ago)
previous scam: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/570857-soulkeys-situation-asl-nonparticipation
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Maybe it's time for NeedRent[LMAO]?
On a serious note, I feel like a lot of progamers might be a bit naive/gullible and without a lot of life experience, which makes them easy targets for these sort of things :<
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How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit????
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On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit????
Seoul is crazy expensive.
Now I'm starting to understand why Do Kwon is Korean.
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it happened to so many pros, damn...
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Korea (South)11577 Posts
On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit????
It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting.
1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600).
2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis.
At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back.
The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future.
It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money.
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On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money.
seems like a lot of people are saying its Jeonse scam
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On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money.
huge culture shock from reading this, it's insane to me how renters willingly take on so much risk for home owners, the big discrepancy in rent to housing prices makes sense now
it's a similar global theme tho, govs/bad leadership taking advantage/exploiting citizens (or enabling this type of behavior, same shit imo) to prop up prices.. sadly a story as old as time
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Damn soulkey didn't even get normal scammed he got systematically scammed that blows
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Russian Federation369 Posts
why not buy a house instead of renting if you still need to payback your loan you took from a bank? I dont get it. Jeonse sounds like scam from the start
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Korea (South)11577 Posts
On October 18 2022 08:58 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote:On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money. huge culture shock from reading this, it's insane to me how renters willingly take on so much risk for home owners, the big discrepancy in rent to housing prices makes sense now it's a similar global theme tho, govs/bad leadership taking advantage of citizens to prop up prices.. sadly a story as old as time
Jeonse gained in popularity over the years as Korea was experiencing significant economic growth following the Korean War. (read: Miracle of the Han River).
During this time, it was a win-win for everyone involved, as people were able to live extremely cheaply in newer homes, while land owners would take the jeonse money to invest in the markets (reaching up to 10-15% a year), and pay back the tenants with ease.
In recent years, and unlike any other parts of the world, housing prices easily increased over 10% a year with low interest rates, and FOMO was huge. (side note: Many people in Korea love to gamble in stock markets, housing, and crypto). So it seemed like a no brainer for many to invest in housing, get a tenant to pay up a huge jeonse, then sell after a few years and still make multiple 6 figures after paying back the tenants.
But as the economy has slowed, inflation has kicked in, and interest rates have tripled, housing prices have started to fall and less people are looking to move. So people cannot pay back their mortgages, let alone tenants.
A news report insinuates that many people are going to be at risk of defaulting soon as a result of the economy, rising interest rates, and decrease in home values.
https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20221010002100325
Thus, people like SoulKey are on the losing end.
On October 18 2022 09:25 iFU.spx wrote:
why not buy a house instead of renting if you still need to payback your loan you took from a bank? I dont get it. Jeonse sounds like scam from the start
Jeonse loans are available up to 80% of the the value. To curb the rising prices in recent years, mortgages were capped at 40% of the home value in Seoul and nearby areas (recently increased under the new president).
Most people don't have mid-six figures in cash to buy a new place so they live on jeonse rent free as they save up to eventually be able to buy.
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On October 18 2022 09:26 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 08:58 TT1 wrote:On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote:On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money. huge culture shock from reading this, it's insane to me how renters willingly take on so much risk for home owners, the big discrepancy in rent to housing prices makes sense now it's a similar global theme tho, govs/bad leadership taking advantage of citizens to prop up prices.. sadly a story as old as time Jeonse gained in popularity over the years as Korea was experiencing significant economic growth following the Korean War. (read: Miracle of the Han River). During this time, it was a win-win for everyone involved, as people were able to live extremely cheaply in newer homes, while land owners would take the jeonse money to invest in the markets (reaching up to 10-15% a year), and pay back the tenants with ease. In recent years, and unlike any other parts of the world, housing prices easily increased over 10% a year with low interest rates, and FOMO was huge. (side note: Many people in Korea love to gamble in stock markets, housing, and crypto). So it seemed like a no brainer for many to invest in housing, get a tenant to pay up a huge jeonse, then sell after a few years and still make multiple 6 figures after paying back the tenants. But as the economy has slowed, inflation has kicked in, and interest rates have tripled, housing prices have started to fall and less people are looking to move. So people cannot pay back their mortgages, let alone tenants. A news report insinuates that many people are going to be at risk of defaulting soon as a result of the economy, rising interest rates, and decrease in home values. https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20221010002100325Thus, people like SoulKey are on the losing end. Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 09:25 iFU.spx wrote:
why not buy a house instead of renting if you still need to payback your loan you took from a bank? I dont get it. Jeonse sounds like scam from the start Jeonse loans are available up to 80% of the the value. To curb the rising prices in recent years, mortgages were capped at 40% of the home value in Seoul and nearby areas (recently increased under the new president). Most people don't have mid-six figures in cash to buy a new place so they live on jeonse rent free as they save up to eventually be able to buy.
This is a lack of accountability/responsibility from leadership tho, they're enabling all of this. It doesn't take too many brain cells to think about what would happen if things weren't all rosy daisy, the lack of backstop for this type of scenario falls on the highest lvl of government. It's too late once the cracks start to show.
Of course no one wants to get blamed for ruining the party so they wait until a disaster happens before taking action, thus weak leadership. Not enough backbone to protect their citizens, that's the job tho  ..
Sad times, we're all feeling the lack of strong leadership (globally) in different ways.
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On October 18 2022 10:01 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 09:26 CaucasianAsian wrote:On October 18 2022 08:58 TT1 wrote:On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote:On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money. huge culture shock from reading this, it's insane to me how renters willingly take on so much risk for home owners, the big discrepancy in rent to housing prices makes sense now it's a similar global theme tho, govs/bad leadership taking advantage of citizens to prop up prices.. sadly a story as old as time Jeonse gained in popularity over the years as Korea was experiencing significant economic growth following the Korean War. (read: Miracle of the Han River). During this time, it was a win-win for everyone involved, as people were able to live extremely cheaply in newer homes, while land owners would take the jeonse money to invest in the markets (reaching up to 10-15% a year), and pay back the tenants with ease. In recent years, and unlike any other parts of the world, housing prices easily increased over 10% a year with low interest rates, and FOMO was huge. (side note: Many people in Korea love to gamble in stock markets, housing, and crypto). So it seemed like a no brainer for many to invest in housing, get a tenant to pay up a huge jeonse, then sell after a few years and still make multiple 6 figures after paying back the tenants. But as the economy has slowed, inflation has kicked in, and interest rates have tripled, housing prices have started to fall and less people are looking to move. So people cannot pay back their mortgages, let alone tenants. A news report insinuates that many people are going to be at risk of defaulting soon as a result of the economy, rising interest rates, and decrease in home values. https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20221010002100325Thus, people like SoulKey are on the losing end. On October 18 2022 09:25 iFU.spx wrote:
why not buy a house instead of renting if you still need to payback your loan you took from a bank? I dont get it. Jeonse sounds like scam from the start Jeonse loans are available up to 80% of the the value. To curb the rising prices in recent years, mortgages were capped at 40% of the home value in Seoul and nearby areas (recently increased under the new president). Most people don't have mid-six figures in cash to buy a new place so they live on jeonse rent free as they save up to eventually be able to buy. This is a lack of accountability/responsibility from leadership tho, they're enabling all of this. It doesn't take too many brain cells to think about what would happen if things weren't all rosy daisy, the lack of backstop for this type of scenario falls on the highest lvl of government. It's too late once the cracks start to show. Of course no one wants to get blamed for ruining the party so they wait until a disaster happens before taking action, thus weak leadership. Not enough backbone to protect their citizens, that's the job tho .. Sad times, we're all feeling the lack of strong leadership (globally) in different ways.
Sounds to me like the Korean mindset is to gamble with a growth mindset at the forefront of whatever you do. There is a second option after all, it's not like someone strong-handed SK to do this.
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There is not a law that forces Appartment owner then to give it to Soulkey until Owner has the money to refund ?
I feel sorry for soulkey man. Guy really should go to any place with a lawyer T_T
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On October 18 2022 11:19 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 10:01 TT1 wrote:On October 18 2022 09:26 CaucasianAsian wrote:On October 18 2022 08:58 TT1 wrote:On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote:On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money. huge culture shock from reading this, it's insane to me how renters willingly take on so much risk for home owners, the big discrepancy in rent to housing prices makes sense now it's a similar global theme tho, govs/bad leadership taking advantage of citizens to prop up prices.. sadly a story as old as time Jeonse gained in popularity over the years as Korea was experiencing significant economic growth following the Korean War. (read: Miracle of the Han River). During this time, it was a win-win for everyone involved, as people were able to live extremely cheaply in newer homes, while land owners would take the jeonse money to invest in the markets (reaching up to 10-15% a year), and pay back the tenants with ease. In recent years, and unlike any other parts of the world, housing prices easily increased over 10% a year with low interest rates, and FOMO was huge. (side note: Many people in Korea love to gamble in stock markets, housing, and crypto). So it seemed like a no brainer for many to invest in housing, get a tenant to pay up a huge jeonse, then sell after a few years and still make multiple 6 figures after paying back the tenants. But as the economy has slowed, inflation has kicked in, and interest rates have tripled, housing prices have started to fall and less people are looking to move. So people cannot pay back their mortgages, let alone tenants. A news report insinuates that many people are going to be at risk of defaulting soon as a result of the economy, rising interest rates, and decrease in home values. https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20221010002100325Thus, people like SoulKey are on the losing end. On October 18 2022 09:25 iFU.spx wrote:
why not buy a house instead of renting if you still need to payback your loan you took from a bank? I dont get it. Jeonse sounds like scam from the start Jeonse loans are available up to 80% of the the value. To curb the rising prices in recent years, mortgages were capped at 40% of the home value in Seoul and nearby areas (recently increased under the new president). Most people don't have mid-six figures in cash to buy a new place so they live on jeonse rent free as they save up to eventually be able to buy. This is a lack of accountability/responsibility from leadership tho, they're enabling all of this. It doesn't take too many brain cells to think about what would happen if things weren't all rosy daisy, the lack of backstop for this type of scenario falls on the highest lvl of government. It's too late once the cracks start to show. Of course no one wants to get blamed for ruining the party so they wait until a disaster happens before taking action, thus weak leadership. Not enough backbone to protect their citizens, that's the job tho .. Sad times, we're all feeling the lack of strong leadership (globally) in different ways. Sounds to me like the Korean mindset is to gamble with a growth mindset at the forefront of whatever you do. There is a second option after all, it's not like someone strong-handed SK to do this.
Lack of morality/integrity from people in positions of power is the main issue (some places are worse than others ofc, i dont wanna lump everyone together).
They leave the door open for ppl to get exploited due to weak human nature (greed etc).. but this is the ugliest side of capitalism after all, nothing new. For this case in particular you can clearly see how flawed the system is, it has wide scale risks for their society/economy as a whole.
Ofc people in the same position as Soulkey are gonna feel the full brunt of it, even more so than the home owners. That's why it's a culture shock to me, the risk/reward is so uneven.
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If Soulkey would have won ASL, he atleast would have bought a overprized house instead of a overprized rent.
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How come its only sk getting scammed of all pros?
Maybe sk is scamming his viewers as thats the people i feel for. They are giving him money that sk is begging for with his username.
Why does he need to stop stream? If landlord scammed him it should be obvious? The landlord scammed everyone in the building?
Plenty of missing information here.
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On October 18 2022 13:49 MeSaber wrote:
How come its only sk getting scammed of all pros?
Maybe sk is scamming his viewers as thats the people i feel for. They are giving him money that sk is begging for with his username.
Why does he need to stop stream? If landlord scammed him it should be obvious? The landlord scammed everyone in the building?
Plenty of missing information here.
other pros got scammed too man. Just that soulkeys the biggest victim of them all right now
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On October 18 2022 14:23 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 13:49 MeSaber wrote:
How come its only sk getting scammed of all pros?
Maybe sk is scamming his viewers as thats the people i feel for. They are giving him money that sk is begging for with his username.
Why does he need to stop stream? If landlord scammed him it should be obvious? The landlord scammed everyone in the building?
Plenty of missing information here. other pros got scammed too man. Just that soulkeys the biggest victim of them all right now
How is he the biggest victim? Dont they pay an equal amount per apartment?
It for me seems like they live very close to one another if not in the same building.
If a landlord scammed em all there cant be any way to get away with it. Its too obvious and he will get hunted down.
The crypto stuff were a low blow and they didnt deserve donations after that. Thats why i have no respect for beggars that throw donations down the drain from gambling. And sk has been by far the biggest one.
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These stories seem so unreal, it's hard to believe they actually happen. Don't they have laws there? Is it a wild west? Feel sorry for SK. I would not leave that apartment until I get my money back.
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On October 18 2022 14:57 MeSaber wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 14:23 jinjin5000 wrote:On October 18 2022 13:49 MeSaber wrote:
How come its only sk getting scammed of all pros?
Maybe sk is scamming his viewers as thats the people i feel for. They are giving him money that sk is begging for with his username.
Why does he need to stop stream? If landlord scammed him it should be obvious? The landlord scammed everyone in the building?
Plenty of missing information here. other pros got scammed too man. Just that soulkeys the biggest victim of them all right now How is he the biggest victim? Dont they pay an equal amount per apartment? It for me seems like they live very close to one another if not in the same building. If a landlord scammed em all there cant be any way to get away with it. Its too obvious and he will get hunted down. The crypto stuff were a low blow and they didnt deserve donations after that. Thats why i have no respect for beggars that throw donations down the drain from gambling. And sk has been by far the biggest one.
other pros are getting scammed by different stuff a lot of times. The whole house rent thing is soulkey and some other streamers recently (not related) but its common enough nowadays
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Korea (South)11577 Posts
On October 18 2022 15:45 arbiter_md wrote:
These stories seem so unreal, it's hard to believe they actually happen. Don't they have laws there? Is it a wild west? Feel sorry for SK. I would not leave that apartment until I get my money back.
It really depends on the details. Korea doesn't have the same tenant protective laws that many countries in the west do.
The 4 most common types of Jeonse fraud that occur are:
1) Third Party Contract
- This is when a tenant signs a jeonse contract with a third party, either a real-estate agency, or someone who the landlord has given such rights to. Then the third party would instead say that the tenant signed a wolse contract, pocketing the jeonse. In this case, neither the tenant nor the landlord is at fault.
2) Jeonse Exceeding Home Value
- This is when a landlord buys a home, then collects a jeonse payment that is near, or exceeds the value of the home. The landlord will then transfer the ownership of the home to someone who does not have the financial power to return the jeonse to the tenant (by putting the home up for auction). In this event, the tenant may be able to receive the home as compensation, but this is a long legal process.
3) Multiple Tenants
- This is when a landlord will sign multiple contracts with multiple tenants for the same home. Obviously, the landlord is at fault, and figuring out who gets to live there, and who gets their money back, is a long legal battle.
4) Magement Fraud
- This is when the landlord uses a real estate management company to manage the property. In this scenario the management company has all authority to the property and tenants must sign contracts with the management company. If the landlord still signs a contract with a tenant without involving the management property, the management property can kick the tenant out, and as they gave money to someone who is not legally in charge of the property, then they may not be able to get their money back without a long legal battle.
There are other schemes as well, such as the landlord spending all of the jeonse money and not being able to pay back the tenant, or skipping town, or falsely declaring they own a property when they don't, etc...
I don't want to jump to conclusions as to what the situation is like for SoulKey, either which way, it sounds like a shitty situation to be in and I wish him the best.
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10k euro/sq m for an apartment outside city centre according to: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Seoul?displayCurrency=EUR
So 100 sq m is 1 million euro. Average net salary is 2500 euro. Set aside 1250 euro/month, so 50% of net salary to pay mortgage. That's ~67 years and if it's interest-free which it isn't. Just wow. I see why gamble, crypto and scam are a thing there. Prices are too inflated.
Edit: By comparison, my country which is of roughly the same size as South Korea. That's ~27 years when taking into account the same factors (average net salary, sq m price, excluding interest, etc). And yes, population density is surely a factor here as well.
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wtf, man.. S. Korea sounds like hell on earth the more I know about it, tbh.. sick.
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On October 18 2022 16:19 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 15:45 arbiter_md wrote:
These stories seem so unreal, it's hard to believe they actually happen. Don't they have laws there? Is it a wild west? Feel sorry for SK. I would not leave that apartment until I get my money back. It really depends on the details. Korea doesn't have the same tenant protective laws that many countries in the west do. The 4 most common types of Jeonse fraud that occur are: 1) Third Party Contract - This is when a tenant signs a jeonse contract with a third party, either a real-estate agency, or someone who the landlord has given such rights to. Then the third party would instead say that the tenant signed a wolse contract, pocketing the jeonse. In this case, neither the tenant nor the landlord is at fault. 2) Jeonse Exceeding Home Value - This is when a landlord buys a home, then collects a jeonse payment that is near, or exceeds the value of the home. The landlord will then transfer the ownership of the home to someone who does not have the financial power to return the jeonse to the tenant (by putting the home up for auction). In this event, the tenant may be able to receive the home as compensation, but this is a long legal process. 3) Multiple Tenants - This is when a landlord will sign multiple contracts with multiple tenants for the same home. Obviously, the landlord is at fault, and figuring out who gets to live there, and who gets their money back, is a long legal battle. 4) Magement Fraud - This is when the landlord uses a real estate management company to manage the property. In this scenario the management company has all authority to the property and tenants must sign contracts with the management company. If the landlord still signs a contract with a tenant without involving the management property, the management property can kick the tenant out, and as they gave money to someone who is not legally in charge of the property, then they may not be able to get their money back without a long legal battle. There are other schemes as well, such as the landlord spending all of the jeonse money and not being able to pay back the tenant, or skipping town, or falsely declaring they own a property when they don't, etc... I don't want to jump to conclusions as to what the situation is like for SoulKey, either which way, it sounds like a shitty situation to be in and I wish him the best.
😂
I have to admit, those are some pretty terrible laws. No protection for the end-consumer there.
It's incredible how governments can stay in power and have these cancerous laws run through the system for so many years. We should learn protesting in schools as a basic skill of life.
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What is going on in S. Korea?? Don't they have any laws ? How can someone be so naive? I'm sorry for SK... scammed twice ... better learn from this bad experience and move forward!
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On October 18 2022 18:49 SC-Shield wrote:10k euro/sq m for an apartment outside city centre according to: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Seoul?displayCurrency=EURSo 100 sq m is 1 million euro. Average net salary is 2500 euro. Set aside 1250 euro/month, so 50% of net salary to pay mortgage. That's ~67 years and if it's interest-free which it isn't. Just wow. I see why gamble, crypto and scam are a thing there. Prices are too inflated. Edit: By comparison, my country which is of roughly the same size as South Korea. That's ~27 years when taking into account the same factors (average net salary, sq m price, excluding interest, etc). And yes, population density is surely a factor here as well.
Those are very common prices for any city this size. Paris and London are the same. If you go in the city centre you re even looking at 13 or even 15k euro/sq m (for "desirable neighbourhoods"). I d wager NYC is up there too but probably higher salary over there. Even if you make 6 figures, interest rates are high so it s still rough, you d need to have 200k+ income and even then it s tax bracket dependent. System is completely crooked every where but even more abused in Korea with such amounts in deposit just for rent.
A lot of politicians are older and usually wealthy, they don't run into this issue and actually benefit from high prices as long as there are still some people to pay that price. (what a depressing post lol I m sorry folks, I require more minerals)
That scam is also fairly common (which also blew my mind first time I heard about it). Poor SK, the first scam he was just stupid, but this one honestly it could happen to (almost) anybody.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50118 Posts
man soulkey cannot catch a break huh, even the system is fucking with him now.
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Bisutopia19231 Posts
Come to my house in Florida to stream and live rent free SoulKey. But there will come a day where I will need you to take a dive in the ASL.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50118 Posts
you better bet he's going to work extra hard to read the fine print on that one.
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I'm really confused by this Jeonse concept. If you have 80% of a house's value in cash available to deposit for this Jeonse what is stopping people from just buying a similarly priced house to own. Are mortgages commanding >80% down payment?? The laws as described in this thread seems like government enabled scamming.
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On October 18 2022 08:11 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? It's not mentioned how much money is involved, but Korea has main 2 systems for renting. 1) Wolse - a deposit (usually ~$10,000 for a small studio, can go up to mid-6 figures for nicer higher-end 3 or 4 bedroom apartments) and monthly payments (depending on how much your deposit is, usually $300 - $600). 2) Jeonse - Pretty much giving the landlord up to 80% of the home's value to live rent-free (excluding utilities). The average 3 bedroom apartment in Seoul costs ~ $1 Million, so this can be up to $800,000 that you give the landlord to live for 2 years. Most people take out loans to do this, as the interest is significantly cheaper than paying on a monthly basis. At the end of the contract, the landlord must pay back the tenant the deposit / jeonse money. But as these are quite significant sums of money, many landlord use this money to invest in other properties and create, in essence, a semi-ponzi scheme. This is why it is very highly recommended that tenants also buy insurance to cover this loss, because even if you sue the landlord it's very unlikely that you get even a % of that money back. The current economy isn't doing great, housing prices are falling, and interest rates are extraordinarily high so less new tenants to pay back old ones (with cheaper new contracts), so this is going to be more common in the near future. It looks like SoulKey did Jeonse, so he could have very well lost a significant amount of money.
I got a semi-Ponzi for the semi-finals... Turns out it was a full on scam and my errection is never coming back!
Hard come, easy go... Disgusting! -_-
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On October 19 2022 02:41 cha0 wrote:
I'm really confused by this Jeonse concept. If you have 80% of a house's value in cash available to deposit for this Jeonse what is stopping people from just buying a similarly priced house to own. Are mortgages commanding >80% down payment?? The laws as described in this thread seems like government enabled scamming.
Jeonse seems to me like you're trading your borrowing ability for 2 years to the landlord in exchange for a place to live, and you take all of the risk for the landlords investments, because the property legally isn't even collateral unless explicitly stated. It's significantly less money than a mortgage because you only pay interest (probably ~1/3 of a regular rent payment), and not principle, and it doesn't seem like you need cash on hand either, only the ability to use a line of credit or something.
Seems like ridiculously high stakes renting to me(like, insanity level stakes. I would NEVER take that risk). You save more compared to renting regularly, in exchange for absolutely ruining your life if it goes south.
Like I get that if you make an average wage, it could be 10-20% of your income in extra savings a year, but that is some crazy level of risk.
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On October 19 2022 02:41 cha0 wrote:
I'm really confused by this Jeonse concept. If you have 80% of a house's value in cash available to deposit for this Jeonse what is stopping people from just buying a similarly priced house to own. Are mortgages commanding >80% down payment?? The laws as described in this thread seems like government enabled scamming.
As far as I understood from an earlier post, Jeonse is usually financed by taking a loan just like mortgages. However, the loan cap for Jeonse is much higher than for mortgages.
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United States42631 Posts
On October 19 2022 03:57 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2022 02:41 cha0 wrote:
I'm really confused by this Jeonse concept. If you have 80% of a house's value in cash available to deposit for this Jeonse what is stopping people from just buying a similarly priced house to own. Are mortgages commanding >80% down payment?? The laws as described in this thread seems like government enabled scamming. As far as I understood from an earlier post, Jeonse is usually financed by taking a loan just like mortgages. However, the loan cap for Jeonse is much higher than for mortgages.
Presumably because it’s “risk free” if you get the insurance. The bank gives the money to a title company which obtains insurance and gives the balance to the homeowner. After 2 years the homeowner either returns the money or the insurance company does but it goes straight back to the bank either way.
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Can't you buy a 1 room apartment for 100K instead of renting it and getting scammed? I'm sure top streamers aren't starving and getting huge donations. I don't get how he gets scamme twice. Sad, because we're not going to see SK next season when he was about to win whole thing...
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Jeonse is a very unique and also very hard to understand concept sometimes.
It is quite common for people to take out loans at a bank to buy a property, with the collateral for that loan being the anticipated Jeonse deposit coming in from a future tenant. (you buy the house but never live in it)
Then using that money you can put down the Jeonse deposit for a 2nd property and live there. I have met a decent amount of people who own houses larger than the ones they Jeonse-rent currently.
Jeonse for some people can act as insurance against an uncertain housing market, since your Jeonse deposit value is fixed you can avoid the dangers of suddenly dropping house prices (although the market has been trending upwards over the last few years). This can also lead to situations where the house value can potentially drop below the value of the Jeonse (which can obviously be tempting).
I think people who let houses through the Jeonse system are loathe to invest in the stock market as they have 'succeeded' in the housing market, but when their investments go bad those massive jeonse deposits can become difficult to pay back, the insurance becomes pretty important. Essentially letting the insurance company go after and sue the house owner instead of you. (although sometimes the houseowners just straight up disappear)
It's a really interesting system that at its best allows people a lower entry point (relative to market value) to stop paying rent and increase their savings. But at its worst is a massive house of cards which, if the economy fluctuates wildly, causes massive problems.
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The stock market always has a huge crash at some point. It's cyclinical and everybody understands that at this point.
So this Jeonse thing seems like a huge scam when you understand that very basic fact.
Unless, you know that you can triple/quadruple your income in a relatively short timespan (<5 years) to cover for the losses somehow.
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This is so sad and kinda stupid to happen again.
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I dated this girl from South Korea, she explained the renting system pretty much like above. And I kind of like it, I don't mind the whole deal, I feel like the less government and less protection I have, the better I am. When you're taking a risk by giving someone close to million dollars and you don't do insurance, you're kind of asking to be screwed over. Obviously if sk got scammed he didn't act prudently so it's impossible for me to feel sympathy for his stupidity. All in all, I think he deserves it. Let that be a lesson for him although I doubt it.
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I enjoy living in Germany when i hear nonsense like that. 3 rents is the maximum by law you need to deposit here as security.
Omg poor progamers without relevant life skills ):
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On October 21 2022 16:04 JoinTheRain wrote:
I dated this girl from South Korea, she explained the renting system pretty much like above. And I kind of like it, I don't mind the whole deal, I feel like the less government and less protection I have, the better I am. When you're taking a risk by giving someone close to million dollars and you don't do insurance, you're kind of asking to be screwed over. Obviously if sk got scammed he didn't act prudently so it's impossible for me to feel sympathy for his stupidity. All in all, I think he deserves it. Let that be a lesson for him although I doubt it.
Too early to judge based on limited & partial information in Soulkey's particular case, especially if you don't live in S Korean and don't understand how things work there.
Like someone from S Korea mentioned, this appears to be a common pitfall that can occur to almost anyone if unlucky (excluding the rich who don't need to rent of course).
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On October 21 2022 23:53 bochs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2022 16:04 JoinTheRain wrote:
I dated this girl from South Korea, she explained the renting system pretty much like above. And I kind of like it, I don't mind the whole deal, I feel like the less government and less protection I have, the better I am. When you're taking a risk by giving someone close to million dollars and you don't do insurance, you're kind of asking to be screwed over. Obviously if sk got scammed he didn't act prudently so it's impossible for me to feel sympathy for his stupidity. All in all, I think he deserves it. Let that be a lesson for him although I doubt it. Too early to judge based on limited & partial information in Soulkey's particular case, especially if you don't live in S Korean and don't understand how things work there. Like someone from S Korea mentioned, this appears to be a common pitfall that can occur to almost anyone if unlucky (excluding the rich who don't need to rent of course).
They said the scams are common, but insurance negates any risk. Seems like he neglected to get insurance to save a little money, which was a very dumb move. Hard to feel sympathetic especially since he should be careful after already being scammed, then begs viewers for money for his mistakes.
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I was kind of curious about this jeonse and I asked my ex to expound a little. She said it's actually quite a secure way to go about real estates provided you do it properly. Properly means with the help of a real estate agency and then of course insurance. Of course the owner will invest the money but if he messes up and loses part or all, he is obliged by law to return the full amount. She said they usually take the money from the next tenant and give it to the previous, then try to invest again. It's also not unheard of to sell the place and pay back because you know, there's binding agreements between the parties involved, it's not like "Hey, you seem kind of cool, let me chill in your place for like 3 years. And here's 800k, do whatever with them."
She said and those were pretty much her exact words "Only morons go about giving away $800k and try to circumvent the rules and regulations. The guy you're talking about is either missing a hemisphere or more likely he himself is scamming his audience somehow. I can't believe he can be so utterly retarded, like, seriously, come on, can he be so stupid? I don't think so."
Knowing how sk is a confirmed beggar, I'm inclined to think this whole thing is some not so elaborate scheme from him to suck out a few more bucks.
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On October 23 2022 00:51 JoinTheRain wrote:
I was kind of curious about this jeonse and I asked my ex to expound a little. She said it's actually quite a secure way to go about real estates provided you do it properly. Properly means with the help of a real estate agency and then of course insurance. Of course the owner will invest the money but if he messes up and loses part or all, he is obliged by law to return the full amount. She said they usually take the money from the next tenant and give it to the previous, then try to invest again. It's also not unheard of to sell the place and pay back because you know, there's binding agreements between the parties involved, it's not like "Hey, you seem kind of cool, let me chill in your place for like 3 years. And here's 800k, do whatever with them."
She said and those were pretty much her exact words "Only morons go about giving away $800k and try to circumvent the rules and regulations. The guy you're talking about is either missing a hemisphere or more likely he himself is scamming his audience somehow. I can't believe he can be so utterly retarded, like, seriously, come on, can he be so stupid? I don't think so."
Knowing how sk is a confirmed beggar, I'm inclined to think this whole thing is some not so elaborate scheme from him to suck out a few more bucks.
Are you fine ? You really going off in a person u never meet in your life. Idk I feel u been really harsh for no reason. Is not like Soulkey will ever read your rant but still.
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On October 23 2022 02:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2022 00:51 JoinTheRain wrote:
I was kind of curious about this jeonse and I asked my ex to expound a little. She said it's actually quite a secure way to go about real estates provided you do it properly. Properly means with the help of a real estate agency and then of course insurance. Of course the owner will invest the money but if he messes up and loses part or all, he is obliged by law to return the full amount. She said they usually take the money from the next tenant and give it to the previous, then try to invest again. It's also not unheard of to sell the place and pay back because you know, there's binding agreements between the parties involved, it's not like "Hey, you seem kind of cool, let me chill in your place for like 3 years. And here's 800k, do whatever with them."
She said and those were pretty much her exact words "Only morons go about giving away $800k and try to circumvent the rules and regulations. The guy you're talking about is either missing a hemisphere or more likely he himself is scamming his audience somehow. I can't believe he can be so utterly retarded, like, seriously, come on, can he be so stupid? I don't think so."
Knowing how sk is a confirmed beggar, I'm inclined to think this whole thing is some not so elaborate scheme from him to suck out a few more bucks. Are you fine ? You really going off in a person u never meet in your life. Idk I feel u been really harsh for no reason. Is not like Soulkey will ever read your rant but still.
His blasts against SK were all based on speculations and what his ex told him, yet he was so angry and outrageous as if he was scammed by SK.
As a side note, if SK's intention was to "suck out a few more bucks", the most convenient way would have been to "beg" his fans in live stream, yet SK hasn't been broadcasting at all since the announcement of this issue.
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On October 23 2022 03:23 bochs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2022 02:26 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On October 23 2022 00:51 JoinTheRain wrote:
I was kind of curious about this jeonse and I asked my ex to expound a little. She said it's actually quite a secure way to go about real estates provided you do it properly. Properly means with the help of a real estate agency and then of course insurance. Of course the owner will invest the money but if he messes up and loses part or all, he is obliged by law to return the full amount. She said they usually take the money from the next tenant and give it to the previous, then try to invest again. It's also not unheard of to sell the place and pay back because you know, there's binding agreements between the parties involved, it's not like "Hey, you seem kind of cool, let me chill in your place for like 3 years. And here's 800k, do whatever with them."
She said and those were pretty much her exact words "Only morons go about giving away $800k and try to circumvent the rules and regulations. The guy you're talking about is either missing a hemisphere or more likely he himself is scamming his audience somehow. I can't believe he can be so utterly retarded, like, seriously, come on, can he be so stupid? I don't think so."
Knowing how sk is a confirmed beggar, I'm inclined to think this whole thing is some not so elaborate scheme from him to suck out a few more bucks. Are you fine ? You really going off in a person u never meet in your life. Idk I feel u been really harsh for no reason. Is not like Soulkey will ever read your rant but still. His blasts against SK were all based on speculations and what his ex told him, yet he was so angry and outrageous as if he was scammed by SK. As a side note, if SK's intention was to "suck out a few more bucks", the most convenient way would have been to "beg" his fans in live stream, yet SK hasn't been broadcasting at all since the announcement of this issue.
Well he did do that last time after leasing multiple hundred-thousand dollar cars irresponsibly. It's a little disappointing that he wouldn't be more careful now when dealing with vast sums of money that the average person will never see in their lifetime. Presumably he made all this money that he was scammed out of this second time from his viewers too, as he was broke after the first time. That's a lot of donations. I wish him the best, but he's careless at the very least, and will likely ask for more donations again. Wouldn't assume he's being shady though.
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He almost made it to ASL14 finals, when in the last game 4 marines from Royal caught him off guard. His risk taking tendency in the game might have unconsciously affected his real life decision makings.
It's a bit off topic, but nevertheless I still think he's the king of ZvT.
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On October 18 2022 07:19 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? Seoul is crazy expensive. Now I'm starting to understand why Do Kwon is Korean.
lolololol if only Do Kwon was a Starcraft fan :/
though we'd probably get scammed to as he'd cut all fundings once in jail
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starcraft mind games god tier, real life noob... or maybe thats he wants us to think
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50118 Posts
On October 24 2022 06:15 endy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 07:19 oxKnu wrote:On October 18 2022 06:50 chrisolo wrote:
How can u be so naive to get scammed twice in your life for a lot of money? I guess some need to learn the hard way.
Also 100k+ for rent deposit seems extraorbitantly high. You don't even put up 100k+ as a down payment when buying a house here in Germany most of the times. Cannot imagine someone putting down 100k+ as a rent security deposit???? Seoul is crazy expensive. Now I'm starting to understand why Do Kwon is Korean. lolololol if only Do Kwon was a Starcraft fan :/ though we'd probably get scammed to as he'd cut all fundings once in jail
Yeah he'd pull a sonic on us.
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EPT
