-if I do ASL I won't be able to stream as much and will be unable to stream on saturday/sunday. -My chance to win is 1% and right now I am unable to maintain my form to full fitness since I am not able to practice as much -so if I get to RO8, which is best I can hope, it will be prize money of $2000 -But while I do my ASL run to RO8, I won't be able to do major proleague (big sponsor matches with big names) -I have to skip 8 days of major proleague, and winning just 2 of 8 will get me the prize money by itself. -I would participate if I had 50% chance of winning ASL but right now, there's no meaning to honor if I have no money -I need money in order to go for honors (trophies) as well.
-a car dealer offered to lease car under condition the streamers let them banner sponsor his dealership (Soulkey/guemchi/zeus/ect other big streamers) -bunch of streamers got very, VERY good deal on car lease -turns out car dealer was a scammer impersonating streamers to buy expensive foreign cars (BMW/porsche/ect) and leasing them, ponzi scheme in a way -leasing becomes unsustainable, scammer sells off the cars overseas -scammer demanded payback for the payment for the cars -what streamers thought was just 1 car was in fact tens of cars -scammer goes to jail and cannot pay money back (probably on some overseas bank account) -the responsibility of payment goes to document signers (forged or not) -streamers cannot do anything further under korean law, must pay back money -soulkey in huge debt numbering $300-400k+ (guesstimate from zeus) -soulkey exempt from full-time army service in order to work to pay back debt -soulkey's priority is money to payback debt he was scammed
Jesus, what is it with streamers always getting scammed or scamming? Is this common in Korea, or are they just particularly easy targets given the nature of their job, or possibly upbringing (proteam houses, have to play BW all day, etc.)?
Feel really bad for them and it seems like a huge flaw in the system if the people who "signed" the documents are forced to pay when they never signed shit.
Fuck scammers, hope he rots in jail and has to give up every penny he makes for the rest of his life to make restitution.
On March 19 2021 08:51 Jealous wrote: Jesus, what is it with streamers always getting scammed or scamming? Is this common in Korea, or are they just particularly easy targets given the nature of their job, or possibly upbringing (proteam houses, have to play BW all day, etc.)?
Feel really bad for them and it seems like a huge flaw in the system if the people who "signed" the documents are forced to pay when they never signed shit.
Fuck scammers, hope he rots in jail and has to give up every penny he makes for the rest of his life to make restitution.
easy targets since they are pretty good money, exposure, no real life experience.
Wow Korean law is super messed up. So anyone can forge your signature in a contract and that makes you (the victim) liable? There surely must be more to it than that. I’d refuse to pay if I’m soulkey.
On March 19 2021 09:00 RowdierBob wrote: Wow Korean law is super messed up. So anyone can forge your signature in a contract and that makes you (the victim) liable? There surely must be more to it than that. I’d refuse to pay if I’m soulkey.
Yeah, that seems really crazy to me as well. Really unfortunate situation
On March 19 2021 09:00 RowdierBob wrote: Wow Korean law is super messed up. So anyone can forge your signature in a contract and that makes you (the victim) liable? There surely must be more to it than that. I’d refuse to pay if I’m soulkey.
Don't think refusal is something that the korean culture knows or accepts.
On March 19 2021 09:00 RowdierBob wrote: Wow Korean law is super messed up. So anyone can forge your signature in a contract and that makes you (the victim) liable? There surely must be more to it than that. I’d refuse to pay if I’m soulkey.
Don't think refusal is something that the korean culture knows or accepts.
you think someone like zeus would be more cautious/prudent about this sort of thing. if something sounds too good to be true and theres money involved..
is this the original "soulkey got scammed and lost all his saved money" thing or is this a separate second incident? because i thought there was a first one where soulkey invested 6 digit figures and lost it all because of scammer, but i dont remember any mention about him being heavily in debt that time.
On March 19 2021 12:49 Bakuryu wrote: is this the original "soulkey got scammed and lost all his saved money" thing or is this a separate second incident? because i thought there was a first one where soulkey invested 6 digit figures and lost it all because of scammer, but i dont remember any mention about him being heavily in debt that time.
for whatever reason a lot of korean pros get blindsided by financial fraud (primarily because they let their parents handle their finances and they fall into traps).
there was another notable pro who's parents got caught in a financial scam and lost all of their son's earnings but i forgot who it was.
So a scam artist somehow signs him to a contract to buy 10+ luxury cars and he is forced to honor this contract even if he never received the cars and is clearly innocent because the scammer was caught and is in jail. Huh???
Honestly it is difficult to believe, how could anyone do business over there? there must be legal recourse to protect citizens from bogus contracts such as this. Either he isn't telling the whole story or Korean law is completely useless.
He needs to scrape up any streamer money he has and get a lawyer and fight this.
Obviously we don't know the full story but looking at this on the surface it seems absolutely ridiculous. How can someone be liable for something if their signatures were forged? If that's the case in Korea wouldn't scammers just forge signatures all over the country and get away with millions?
I heard he was scammed and was in debt as a result of that but I didn't know it was this bad. Thanks for clarifying, this ain't the time for him to focus on honor and a "1%" chance in winning ASL.
I don't get it, but then again, I'm legally illiterate.
Okay, Soulkey owes money, but to whom? The car manufacturers? Scammer is in jail and can't get the money and as far as I'm concerned, this should be his problem. He sold the cars overseas, but even if he got the proceeds, they are acquired illegally and should go back to the manufacturers/local dealers. I suppose that cannot cover the whole cost of the cars, still this sum is pretty big.
Holy shit, imagine getting scammed/need to pay ~ 400K $. I would definitely kill myself. Big props to SK that he can still maintain his form under these circumstances. Hope he will slowly get balloons and pay that shit back but korean law is fucked up badly, let the fucking scammer pay all the sum.
That forged signature part can't be exactly correct, can it? Apparently, that must actually mean that he wasn't able to prove that he didn't sign the new contracts or he signed something without reading it because 'they said it was just format stuff'.
I am pretty sure the signature is NOT the piece that was forged, otherwise Soulkey would not be invovled in all of this. Assume that he signed a contract for a very good deal with some fine print that says in case the dealer goes bankrupt you are second in line to pay the bills, probably concealed in legal mumbo jumbo. Maybe that language was not even in the contract but is implicit by Korean law. Also the guesstimated amount could be one big ass car plus legal fees? There are plenty of very plausible scenarios in which all Soulkey did "wrong" was doing business with shady people and not being on the side of caution with a "too good" deal. Or they simply missed something in the fine print that we all may have missed.
On March 19 2021 17:36 iFU.pauline wrote: holy shit, 400k, you could work all your life not being able to pay back that amount. I would definetely leave my country for that.
Agreed. I would let Soulkey move to America and stream from my house (and train my children), if he wanted.
On the other hand it may be for the best that all the details are not made public because then that gives other skeevy scumbag scammers the blueprint on how to repeat such shitty crimes.
That is just insane. Everywhere arround the world so much is happening... more people wake up to "fraud" and "fraud country laws". He should not have to pay back this in any circumstances. Really crazy what pressure is put onto such people that just ignored or did not know better like those few pros.
But at the end its all about greed. Some may offer something that sound tooo good to be true. People need to be aware about this. Anyway, i am wishing all the best for Soulkey and all the others involved! Hope they learn and learned from this and having "luck" in life to repay or resolve the situation quickly.
Really shitty situation for SK obviously, hopefully he can find relief soon.
But also really looks bad for ASL when one of the best players in the world feels like they can make more money by not participating in the tournament :\ . Definitely not a good sign for the healthiness of the scene when one of the best players thinks/knows they will lose money by only making the Ro8 of the biggest possible tournament that there is.
On March 20 2021 02:19 Ideas wrote: Really shitty situation for SK obviously, hopefully he can find relief soon.
But also really looks bad for ASL when one of the best players in the world feels like they can make more money by not participating in the tournament :\ . Definitely not a good sign for the healthiness of the scene when one of the best players thinks/knows they will lose money by only making the Ro8 of the biggest possible tournament that there is.
It's more a statement on the success they have while streaming and the losses they incur when they have to prepare for said tournament, than it is about the payout for a Ro8 placement. How many other videogame tournaments pay out $2000 for an 8th place finish? Maybe like 10% of them at most? Not many, either way. Most tournaments are very top-heavy in their prize distribution and I don't think that is necessarily wrong.
On top of that, would you rather play two Bo3s against someone who is most likely a stone's throw away from your skill, and only if you win both do you get $2000, or would you prefer to stream 8 hours a day/participate in sponmatches for 2 weeks and make $2000 guaranteed? As the saying goes, bird in hand vs. two in the bush. As such, I also think it's more a reflection of SK having to be responsible and not gamble with his ROI in terms of time in his current predicament. Really don't think Afreeca is to blame for anything here.
On March 19 2021 13:33 GTR wrote: for whatever reason a lot of korean pros get blindsided by financial fraud (primarily because they let their parents handle their finances and they fall into traps).
there was another notable pro who's parents got caught in a financial scam and lost all of their son's earnings but i forgot who it was.
Quite a predicament SK and the others have put themselves into, it seems. I hope they can somehow manage to cope, this doesn't seem like an insignificant loss, what seems like a simple and rather useless car to me can indeed easily cost USD 200000. From what I've heard from my Korean gf, modern Korean society has shifted its values heavily towards money and such scams are kind of on the rise there.
A scammer would come along donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to gain the trust of Bj's while selling the illusion of being a mega wealthy individual. After time passes building a relationship with the bj's, the scammer would approach with a way to make money and the bj would trust the scammer seeing how they would donate six figures like it's nothing. And boom scammer takes everyone's money and disappears.
Regardless of what he did, something is seriously broken in the laws there if somebody who probably has less than 100k net income ended up with a debt of 3-400k.
On March 19 2021 13:33 GTR wrote: for whatever reason a lot of korean pros get blindsided by financial fraud (primarily because they let their parents handle their finances and they fall into traps).
there was another notable pro who's parents got caught in a financial scam and lost all of their son's earnings but i forgot who it was.
the Korean government needs to create legislation to protect people from these scumbags. 300-400k is more money than most people have saved up for retirement.
On March 19 2021 22:29 Chosi wrote: I am pretty sure the signature is NOT the piece that was forged, otherwise Soulkey would not be invovled in all of this. Assume that he signed a contract for a very good deal with some fine print that says in case the dealer goes bankrupt you are second in line to pay the bills, probably concealed in legal mumbo jumbo. Maybe that language was not even in the contract but is implicit by Korean law. Also the guesstimated amount could be one big ass car plus legal fees? There are plenty of very plausible scenarios in which all Soulkey did "wrong" was doing business with shady people and not being on the side of caution with a "too good" deal. Or they simply missed something in the fine print that we all may have missed.
This is what I think may have happened. I suspect SK was coerced into signing something and he didn't fully understand the terms of the contract meaning when it went belly up, he was the one left holding the bag.
Personally think soulkey didn't reveal the whole story, there's more than meets the eye. He is a streamer anyways, and his job is to ultimately make a living. Blaming ASL for having low chance at winning decent prize doesn't really help his image as a progamer.
On March 19 2021 13:33 GTR wrote: for whatever reason a lot of korean pros get blindsided by financial fraud (primarily because they let their parents handle their finances and they fall into traps).
there was another notable pro who's parents got caught in a financial scam and lost all of their son's earnings but i forgot who it was.
Debt clearance? Live on existential minimum? Sell stuff pay off debt and declare personal bankruptcy. Clear that debt in 5 years living on close to nothing and be done with it.
It must work like this over there also. If not suicide rates must be skyhigh.
On March 19 2021 08:51 Jealous wrote: Jesus, what is it with streamers always getting scammed or scamming? Is this common in Korea, or are they just particularly easy targets given the nature of their job, or possibly upbringing (proteam houses, have to play BW all day, etc.)?
I think we know the answer. Streaming/progaming is not a stable career, plus we all know money can swing wildly in streaming. There's the feeling to "get on top while you can" that lets people fall for scams.
It happens in every industry where young people quickly get into some amount of money (even if it is not much money), korean programers maybe even more as most of them werent rich by any means but had a teamhouse of some sort without much living expenses, so if they made even a little bit of money it felt like a lot more than they actually had.
EPT
