EPTFlash says he will choose random - Page 10
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EndingLife
United States1585 Posts
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itsdaniel
Austria331 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On April 22 2020 06:10 itsdaniel wrote: I doubt many things Flash has said recently on stream... He is such a great player but on some days he seems to be intoxicated on stream... and afaik its a common joke among other bw progamers... He even said he's retiring on stream though he still played ASL... you are missing like 90% of the story details matter... | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On April 22 2020 00:09 ProllTarodies wrote: I don't know how anyone can be a fan of the game AND be against seeing less Flash Terran play. He's won 4 ASL tournaments as Terran out of the 9 so far. Flash’s Terran play is a gift to BW. (Flash playing Random would also be a gift to BW.) —A fan of the game | ||
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TelecoM
United States10646 Posts
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machinus
United States288 Posts
ASL 10 is very exciting already! | ||
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TornadoSteve
906 Posts
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Starecat
932 Posts
On April 22 2020 20:15 TornadoSteve wrote: Why now? He is not alone on top anymore, unfortunately. May be for motivation purpose? Hopefully. Because if hes switching to random to defend his losses, he will get flamed. His health is not there anymore, he just playing for fanserice. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12799 Posts
On April 22 2020 07:44 GGzerG wrote: This is the new trend, time for everyone to become Random players. This would actually be pretty cool as an exhibition after this ASL. Get 16 of the best players for an RvR tourney. Single elim, bo3 (bo5 for final). | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10025 Posts
On April 22 2020 04:08 linestein wrote: He'll win 100% of the time the 33% of the time he plays Terran. He'll win 75% of the time the 33% of the time he plays Protoss. He'll win 40% of the time the 33% of the time he plays Zerg. I'm predicting a 70% winrate with this gimmick. For one I'm not a fan of this at all because at best it shows that Flash is a genius while at worst it proves that Terran is the master race of SC:R. or... it means he mained terran and has the most knowledge on how to play Terran at the highest level compared to his other races. You know, the normal logical connection instead of claiming TESAGI. lol. Out of all the bad takes in this thread, this might take the cake now. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden506 Posts
On April 22 2020 23:10 FlaShFTW wrote: or... it means he mained terran and has the most knowledge on how to play Terran at the highest level compared to his other races. You know, the normal logical connection instead of claiming TESAGI. lol. Out of all the bad takes in this thread, this might take the cake now. You already took the entire cake mate. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On April 22 2020 04:08 linestein wrote: He'll win 100% of the time the 33% of the time he plays Terran. He'll win 75% of the time the 33% of the time he plays Protoss. He'll win 40% of the time the 33% of the time he plays Zerg. I'm predicting a 70% winrate with this gimmick. For one I'm not a fan of this at all because at best it shows that Flash is a genius while at worst it proves that Terran is the master race of SC:R. He won't win 100% with terran because the moment he spawns as Terran the audience will go "OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH" and the surprise is destroyed :D Also, I don't see him winning 75% with Protoss as long as the opponents play conservative. I don't think he can navigate the mid and late game in offrace nearly close to the in-competition S-class level gamplay. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
On April 23 2020 05:53 niteReloaded wrote: He won't win 100% with terran because the moment he spawns as Terran the audience will go "OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH" and the surprise is destroyed :D Also, I don't see him winning 75% with Protoss as long as the opponents play conservative. I don't think he can navigate the mid and late game in offrace nearly close to the in-competition S-class level gamplay. tbh this is Flash we are talking about... the guy who had entered a state of "Starcraft nirvana". I think he can do it | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12224 Posts
On April 21 2020 12:15 Liquid`Drone wrote: If the other guy is forced into either a super safe or an allin build, how is the R player supposed to know which build order to pick? To be clear, I definitely acknowledge that there are some random scenarios where the random player gets a statistic advantage, and it's exacerbated by the random player being more familiar with those scenarios. For example if you are a random player you will normally be more used to playing zvp against protoss going 1 gate gas than the protoss player will be familiar with opening 1 gate gas against zerg. But being random, your counter to 1 gate gas is completely different from your counter to proxy 2 gate (which is also something you will face occasionally. That said I know that koreans think you will beat proxy 2 gate if you scout it in time regardless of your opening, but it's just an example.) It's just that the random factor actually goes both ways. Playing random, your opponent tends to play less predictably, too. I think many of you are attributing too much weight on the early game build order advantages. They're present in some matchups, but not in all, and sometimes, the random player is the one who gets mindgamed by randoming. It definitely makes for less standard games, quite possibly for more build order wins (I don't think koreans are gonna self-handicap by scouting with their 6th worker against flash) - but it really isn't a given that flash ends up being the one with the build order win. Stuff like proxy bbs can end up being a stronger opener against random than it is against picked zerg, for example, because random will often scout later than picked races do, and that makes you more susceptible to it. So - it's less predictable. Somewhat more likely to result in short games. Far more likely to result in weird games. But the % of Flash getting a big build order advantage isn't much more pronounced than it is in regular games, mostly all of the gambling builds you can do as random also has a chance at backfiring. That protoss can't open forge FE against zerg is a real disadvantage for protoss players who favor that - but frankly, it's pretty close to the only consistent disadvantage. A zerg player can choose to open 9pool or 12hatch or 12pool or overpool - it's not like the other races have a catch-all anti-that build order. Terran can play pretty much entirely normally (with single 8 rax being much less of an option vs zerg but with proxy bbs perhaps being stronger). Hi Eri! Glad to see you in this thread (I knew you would be!) for your takes on high-level Random play.  Obviously there is a hidden inherent minor advantage, my example would be that in TvT and TvP you want a factory expand whereas against Z you want early infantry, and if you fail to determine the Random player's race in time you're in trouble. And if you take an econ hit to scout earlier, you're still a little behind. I think so far everyone in the thread generally agrees with that. Although, your prediction about cheesing the Random player is an interesting one, I hadn't considered that possibility. Hopefully those types of games remain relatively uncommon, rather than a new norm. Speaking to my own experiences playing Random (albeit definitely not at your level, and only knowing a couple of builds per non-Terran race), my own challenges were chiefly in ZvZ. ZvZ is so dramatically different in feel and flow that it deserves special consideration, I would say. I can imagine Flash encountering similar challenges in that particular matchup (not that he hasn't played ZvZ with success in the past, it's just... so much its own category). In any event, I'm certainly looking forward to it. It's also quite a statement to be able to graduate from "the Terran player's champion" to "everyone's champion" -- the one everyone will cheer for. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10025 Posts
On April 23 2020 09:04 Excalibur_Z wrote: Hi Eri! Glad to see you in this thread (I knew you would be!) for your takes on high-level Random play. Obviously there is a hidden inherent minor advantage, my example would be that in TvT and TvP you want a factory expand whereas against Z you want early infantry, and if you fail to determine the Random player's race in time you're in trouble. And if you take an econ hit to scout earlier, you're still a little behind. I think so far everyone in the thread generally agrees with that. Although, your prediction about cheesing the Random player is an interesting one, I hadn't considered that possibility. Hopefully those types of games remain relatively uncommon, rather than a new norm. Speaking to my own experiences playing Random (albeit definitely not at your level, and only knowing a couple of builds per non-Terran race), my own challenges were chiefly in ZvZ. ZvZ is so dramatically different in feel and flow that it deserves special consideration, I would say. I can imagine Flash encountering similar challenges in that particular matchup (not that he hasn't played ZvZ with success in the past, it's just... so much its own category). In any event, I'm certainly looking forward to it. It's also quite a statement to be able to graduate from "the Terran player's champion" to "everyone's champion" -- the one everyone will cheer for. Factory openings are actually pretty popular now in TvZ too so I don't think Terran necessarily has a bad time in TvR, plus there are a lot of ways for Terran to get back to standard bio play after opening factory with either valk/science vessel rushes while adding more rax behind. They could also just hope that if the enemy is Zerg taht they don't 9 pool and continue to open up with a blind-ish 1 rax FE. Protoss definitely gets the short end of the stick here having to 1-gate-gas instead of forge FE vZ. Crazy thought to maybe help with the random RNG factor, at the start of the game, the game will notify the other player one race that the random player isnt. So if random player spawned Terran, the game will say that he isn't either Zerg or Protoss. Pretty silly and radical idea but it could help. Altneratively it could do the complete opposite and force even more RNG based strategies. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28553 Posts
Zerg is forced to gamble vs random, but in a way that the random player can't really exploit. It becomes a bit more coinflippy - but there's no build from any race that hard counters 9pool 12hatch overpool and 12pool. For random terran vs zerg, you basically lose the option of going 8 rax because zerg is much less likely to have opened 12hatch. Wallins do become a bit stronger though. Protoss is forced to choose in a way that you can to a greater degree exploit - if you are random zerg vs protoss you can be very confident you're not up against forge FE, and random terran vs protoss you should to a greater degree expect one or two zealots. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10025 Posts
On April 24 2020 00:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: Terran is definitely the race that has the easiest time playing vs random, both 1 rax expand and factory openings are viable in all 3 matchups. There are some differences in scout timings (double scv scout vs zerg but never vs terran) that aren't completely insignificant, but it's also not that big of a deal. Zerg is forced to gamble vs random, but in a way that the random player can't really exploit. It becomes a bit more coinflippy - but there's no build from any race that hard counters 9pool 12hatch overpool and 12pool. For random terran vs zerg, you basically lose the option of going 8 rax because zerg is much less likely to have opened 12hatch. Wallins do become a bit stronger though. Protoss is forced to choose in a way that you can to a greater degree exploit - if you are random zerg vs protoss you can be very confident you're not up against forge FE, and random terran vs protoss you should to a greater degree expect one or two zealots. I think the one thing that saves Protoss is that zealot first is viable in every matchup, though not as common in PvT because of terran micro holes and walls. PvP zealot before goon is the standard. It really just sucks that Protoss is forced to get a wall in PvZ, since gate first is also still viable in that matchup, but the wall would suck in PvP. PvT the wall actually might not be too bad since it helps to block the vultures. | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On April 24 2020 00:44 FlaShFTW wrote: I think the one thing that saves Protoss is that zealot first is viable in every matchup, though not as common in PvT because of terran micro holes and walls. PvP zealot before goon is the standard. It really just sucks that Protoss is forced to get a wall in PvZ, since gate first is also still viable in that matchup, but the wall would suck in PvP. PvT the wall actually might not be too bad since it helps to block the vultures. There was some player named OseyoGaseyo who really likes to make a PvZ style wall in PvP with some success. I don't know how he pulls it off though. | ||
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EndingLife
United States1585 Posts
On April 24 2020 01:12 onlystar wrote: just to be clear FlaShFTW is a random user he enjoys the advantage he gets in his games makes him feel special putting other players at a disadvantage from the start what a guy! and anyone who tells him that is not exactly fairplay is an absolute fool... just so you know what we are dealing with here Anyone who thinks random is imbalanced and gives someone an unfair advantage can always make the switch to random themselves. If that were the case, everyone would play random. There are very few true random players and nearly all of them will have a strongest race. 66% of the time they will be playing with one of their weaker races. | ||
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