• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:50
CEST 15:50
KST 22:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow5[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30
Community News
MaNa leaves Team Liquid14$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy5GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding7Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
The Korean Terminology Thread ASL21 General Discussion [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ JD's Ro24 review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group A Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The China Politics Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2377 users

Translating Pro videos

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Normal
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 07:31:34
February 02 2020 07:29 GMT
#1
Hi guys,

Many people asked me to translate Korean pro youtube videos/tutorials to english so you can easily understand what they are saying. I am a full time student, so I can not commit too much time to translate, but I will happily translate specific videos you request.

I spoke with some pros today, and they do not want me to re-upload their videos on a different channel. However, I can ask them to add my subtitles to their original videos. In order to do that, I need to know which videos from which pros you are interested in seeing translated.

It took 50 minutes to translate a 7 minute video. I am thinking of charging $30 for one 15 minute video and 2 for $50. I think this is reasonable since this means about 1 hour and 40 minutes of work for $30. (Obviously, dont hesitate to tell me if you think it is expensive). One of the reasons why I wanted to charge you is so it gives a good motivation for me to keep translating the videos. Since I charge you, I guarantee the quality of translation of each video.

As many of you know, many pros are selling their tutorials. It costs from $10 - $30. (Amateur like Zelot sells his video around $15 and most pros sell theirs around $30). This requires you to buy your own tutorial (if you dont know how to, if you send me money, I can purchase it and give them to you). You cant share tutorials with others since it violates copyright issues, and it is just disrespectful to pros. What I am thinking is purchasing pro's tutorials and translate them to you. However, there are lots of videos in it, so based on the price I mentioned above, I would negotiate the price of translating each tutorial.

I am very open to your opinion about anything, so please comment if you guys would be interested or something you want to mention to me.

Finally, I want to make sure I do not support any illegal distribution of others' work and videos.

Thank you very much,
cRoSs
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10035 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 08:14:45
February 02 2020 08:01 GMT
#2
I'd be happy to get the ball rolling but i'd want to have quality tutorials, preferably games going into the ~middgame or until someone is on 3 bases and has all his production up. For example, no one does tutorials like FlaSh. He's on another level when it comes to giving details/insight. Even as a P player i'd love to see FlaSh doing a tutorial on PvZ vs turtle zerg for example, i just dunno if he has a tutorial on that style (there's a bunch of FlaSh PvT tutorials on jinjins youtube, dunno if he has any PvZs tho).

can we get a short sample translation? it doesnt have to be a translated progamer vod, could be an amateur tutorial (just to get an idea of your translation style).
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 08:28:25
February 02 2020 08:26 GMT
#3
On February 02 2020 17:01 TT1 wrote:
I'd be happy to get the ball rolling but i'd want to have quality tutorials, preferably games going into the ~middgame or until someone is on 3 bases and has all his production up. For example, no one does tutorials like FlaSh. He's on another level when it comes to giving details/insight. Even as a P player i'd love to see FlaSh doing a tutorial on PvZ vs turtle zerg for example, i just dunno if he has a tutorial on that style (there's a bunch of FlaSh PvT tutorials on jinjins youtube, dunno if he has any PvZs tho).

can we get a short sample translation? it doesnt have to be a translated progamer vod, could be an amateur tutorial (just to get an idea of your translation style).


I already translated a short 7 minute video, and I am uploading it, I will post the link once its done. I didnt want to share it first in case Soma did not want me to share. But its a short clips, so it wont cause any problem for now. As you said, since I charge you, quality of video and translation will be accurate. I am also willing to find and choose videos based on what type of tutorials you are looking for (we can discuss options).

My translation style is simple. I will translate every single word by word.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10035 Posts
February 02 2020 08:29 GMT
#4
oo thx
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 02 2020 08:43 GMT
#5


its 18 minutes video, but I only translated first 7 minutes. Briefly about this video, this video is not to teach you the b.o, soma just wants to breifly go over the replay and telling people what kind of mindset you need to have against protoss. I am working on some technical thing, so everything will be better time to time. Please give me any feedback, that would help me to do better on this.

Thanks
staatbauhaus
Profile Joined February 2020
99 Posts
February 02 2020 16:26 GMT
#6
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 02 2020 18:49 GMT
#7
On February 03 2020 01:26 staatbauhaus wrote:
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously


Well, as i mentioned above, i respect pros and never do something without their approval. I do not translate and sell their videos without their approval, so i mentioned that they agree to add subtitles on their original videos.
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina244 Posts
February 02 2020 18:58 GMT
#8
On February 03 2020 01:26 staatbauhaus wrote:
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously


I think you are too hasty to call other people 'wrong' or 'fraudulent' kid. The OP is even talking about getting the owner permission, it's not like he is playing dumb on the matter.

If you are the "ask for prove" type of guy, you could be more cautious before accusing someone, but I could be wrong.
Geez you are almost admittng to be coming incognito to trash on others.
He is talking about translating valuable content that no else is, so right now there would be no other way to have it in english. As I said, I might be wrong but I don't see the problem of charging for it if all the parties agree.
So, let's define 'wrong'
Standard Queens
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina244 Posts
February 02 2020 19:04 GMT
#9
And again I'm not convinced of beeing in the right but whenever I get my hands on a piece of information I see the way it's presented among other things to determine it's value. In that regard someone jumping so fast on the accusatory train while remaining admittely anonymous would be 'suspicius' for me to say the least.
So, let's define 'fraudulent'.
Standard Queens
staatbauhaus
Profile Joined February 2020
99 Posts
February 02 2020 19:34 GMT
#10
And again I'm not convinced of beeing in the right but whenever I get my hands on a piece of information I see the way it's presented among other things to determine it's value. In that regard someone jumping so fast on the accusatory train while remaining admittely anonymous would be 'suspicius' for me to say the least.
So, let's define 'fraudulent'.


Well im not talking out of my ass LocoBolon nor am i trying to defame crossy. I'm a long time fan of BJ Best and he had an episode where some guy was uploading his stream on youtube without his permission. Best was pissed and thanked his fans for the info. That's why I'm stating to be cautious when using pro's contents. And some people find using content to be "free" material when in reality its the hard labor of someone else.
Rus_Brain
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Russian Federation1894 Posts
February 02 2020 19:37 GMT
#11
On February 03 2020 01:26 staatbauhaus wrote:
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously
Congrats. You have just made an account and qualified for the most valuable first comment oscar.
patyrykin.net
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 19:52:32
February 02 2020 19:47 GMT
#12
On February 02 2020 16:29 cRoSsy wrote:
Hi guys,

Many people asked me to translate Korean pro youtube videos/tutorials to english so you can easily understand what they are saying. I am a full time student, so I can not commit too much time to translate, but I will happily translate specific videos you request.

I spoke with some pros today, and they do not want me to re-upload their videos on a different channel. However, I can ask them to add my subtitles to their original videos. In order to do that, I need to know which videos from which pros you are interested in seeing translated.

It took 50 minutes to translate a 7 minute video. I am thinking of charging $30 for one 15 minute video and 2 for $50. I think this is reasonable since this means about 1 hour and 40 minutes of work for $30. (Obviously, dont hesitate to tell me if you think it is expensive). One of the reasons why I wanted to charge you is so it gives a good motivation for me to keep translating the videos. Since I charge you, I guarantee the quality of translation of each video.

As many of you know, many pros are selling their tutorials. It costs from $10 - $30. (Amateur like Zelot sells his video around $15 and most pros sell theirs around $30). This requires you to buy your own tutorial (if you dont know how to, if you send me money, I can purchase it and give them to you). You cant share tutorials with others since it violates copyright issues, and it is just disrespectful to pros. What I am thinking is purchasing pro's tutorials and translate them to you. However, there are lots of videos in it, so based on the price I mentioned above, I would negotiate the price of translating each tutorial.

I am very open to your opinion about anything, so please comment if you guys would be interested or something you want to mention to me.

Finally, I want to make sure I do not support any illegal distribution of others' work and videos.

Thank you very much,
cRoSs


Hi cRoSs,

Thanks for the translated video - super interesting as always. I would love to see more of them for sure.

I understand your view point of "why should I go an extra mile for other people if there is nothing for me in it", especially that it will take a lot of time as you write. At the same time I kind of agree with other people, pure monitarizaton of others content may be a strech.

I have a suggestion though, why don't you make a pateron account and a donate option, so when people see that you have made some videos they can appreciate that? If you want to be incentivies for your work prior it will create these strange reactions that you are reselling pro's content as you own etc..

Anyway, good luck and I hope we can find some middleground in this, as this kind of vidoes are absolute bombs for us foreigners.

Cheers
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
staatbauhaus
Profile Joined February 2020
99 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 19:56:44
February 02 2020 19:48 GMT
#13
On February 03 2020 04:37 Rus_Brain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2020 01:26 staatbauhaus wrote:
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously
Congrats. You have just made an account and qualified for the most valuable first comment oscar.


You must be in the dark about the korean scene. Use google translate for the thread below because coincidentally something like this already happened. LIke i said, i'm not randomly talking out of my ass.

https://www.ygosu.com/community/starbbs/2205523/?searcht=s&search=%EC%A0%80%EC%9E%91%EA%B6%8C

edit: Just in case ppl get confused:
1. 2020starcraft경기모음 = problem
2. starcasttv = 100% legit, no problem
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
February 02 2020 20:21 GMT
#14
On February 03 2020 01:26 staatbauhaus wrote:
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously


i guess in your world translators work for free
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 02 2020 20:25 GMT
#15
On February 03 2020 04:47 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2020 16:29 cRoSsy wrote:
Hi guys,

Many people asked me to translate Korean pro youtube videos/tutorials to english so you can easily understand what they are saying. I am a full time student, so I can not commit too much time to translate, but I will happily translate specific videos you request.

I spoke with some pros today, and they do not want me to re-upload their videos on a different channel. However, I can ask them to add my subtitles to their original videos. In order to do that, I need to know which videos from which pros you are interested in seeing translated.

It took 50 minutes to translate a 7 minute video. I am thinking of charging $30 for one 15 minute video and 2 for $50. I think this is reasonable since this means about 1 hour and 40 minutes of work for $30. (Obviously, dont hesitate to tell me if you think it is expensive). One of the reasons why I wanted to charge you is so it gives a good motivation for me to keep translating the videos. Since I charge you, I guarantee the quality of translation of each video.

As many of you know, many pros are selling their tutorials. It costs from $10 - $30. (Amateur like Zelot sells his video around $15 and most pros sell theirs around $30). This requires you to buy your own tutorial (if you dont know how to, if you send me money, I can purchase it and give them to you). You cant share tutorials with others since it violates copyright issues, and it is just disrespectful to pros. What I am thinking is purchasing pro's tutorials and translate them to you. However, there are lots of videos in it, so based on the price I mentioned above, I would negotiate the price of translating each tutorial.

I am very open to your opinion about anything, so please comment if you guys would be interested or something you want to mention to me.

Finally, I want to make sure I do not support any illegal distribution of others' work and videos.

Thank you very much,
cRoSs


Hi cRoSs,

Thanks for the translated video - super interesting as always. I would love to see more of them for sure.

I understand your view point of "why should I go an extra mile for other people if there is nothing for me in it", especially that it will take a lot of time as you write. At the same time I kind of agree with other people, pure monitarizaton of others content may be a strech.

I have a suggestion though, why don't you make a pateron account and a donate option, so when people see that you have made some videos they can appreciate that? If you want to be incentivies for your work prior it will create these strange reactions that you are reselling pro's content as you own etc..

Anyway, good luck and I hope we can find some middleground in this, as this kind of vidoes are absolute bombs for us foreigners.

Cheers


Thank you for the comment Koget.
I will consider your opinion for sure. Thank you for your time concerning.
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 20:28:41
February 02 2020 20:28 GMT
#16
On February 03 2020 04:48 staatbauhaus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2020 04:37 Rus_Brain wrote:
On February 03 2020 01:26 staatbauhaus wrote:
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously
Congrats. You have just made an account and qualified for the most valuable first comment oscar.


You must be in the dark about the korean scene. Use google translate for the thread below because coincidentally something like this already happened. LIke i said, i'm not randomly talking out of my ass.

https://www.ygosu.com/community/starbbs/2205523/?searcht=s&search=%EC%A0%80%EC%9E%91%EA%B6%8C

edit: Just in case ppl get confused:
1. 2020starcraft경기모음 = problem
2. starcasttv = 100% legit, no problem


I clearly understand what you mean. That's why I mentioned everything I will do, I will need approval from the pros. My first thought about this was if I can translate their videos, then more foreigners can watch the video that would be beneficial for pros as well. Nothing has been decided, I have not asked all the pros about this, so if they do not agree, i cant even start translateing. I just want to hear from you guys what you guys think.
Thank you for your time concerning and opinion
staatbauhaus
Profile Joined February 2020
99 Posts
February 02 2020 20:31 GMT
#17
On February 03 2020 05:21 onlystar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2020 01:26 staatbauhaus wrote:
Piggy backing off of content creators and profiting is just wrong imo. I made an account just to point this out.


If what you say is true, you should provide proof of consent (screenshots) of the pros letting you provide this service where they know you're getting PAID to do so.

Also, stating that pro tutorials are 30 bucks is fraudulent. Last sells his for 10,000 won, Light for 20,000 won. Rain for 20,000 won. I never saw anyone that sold it for 30 bucks.

Okay enough venting, just wish people would take creators more seriously


i guess in your world translators work for free


no that's the exact opposite of what i feel. Just like translators or anyone producing labor, BJ's in this case, have right for compensation if they choose for use of their material.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 20:41:47
February 02 2020 20:39 GMT
#18
Since you're getting some backlash, I'll go ahead and chime in I think what you're doing is fine. You're making their videos more valuable by adding subtitles to them and, unless you just haven't mentioned it, you aren't even charging the pros any money for this service. I think the two people reacting badly just didn't read your post very carefully, I can't understand their concern. The worst I can imagine is if a pro wanted to translate the video and earn the money himself, and that just isn't the case.

If the quality of the translation is par, I think the price you charge is quite fair, particularly if everyone gets to see it once it is released. Your alternative would be to set up a patreon if you release enough ones that you like.

The only thing that makes your plan vulnerable is that you could possibly have your hard work undone if a pro decides to make a video private or does something weird with their channel. It's not too likely, but I guess you could release the subtitle file as a separate download as some mitigation to that event as they may still have information people are interested in even without the video.

Good luck with your project. Most of us are freeloaders but there's a couple of people who will pay. Make sure you choose a platform people trust. One reason why Patreon works nicely is that people are supporting a service that is already being provided. It also gives people a way to chip in if $30 is too much for them. Just think about your options for a bit and make sure neither you nor people who pay you get screwed.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
staatbauhaus
Profile Joined February 2020
99 Posts
February 02 2020 20:40 GMT
#19
I clearly understand what you mean. That's why I mentioned everything I will do, I will need approval from the pros. My first thought about this was if I can translate their videos, then more foreigners can watch the video that would be beneficial for pros as well. Nothing has been decided, I have not asked all the pros about this, so if they do not agree, i cant even start translating. I just want to hear from you guys what you guys think.
Thank you for your time concerning and opinion


Hey Crossy, sorry if I sound confrontational. I understand you're trying to contribute content to foreigners who haven't had in depth insight because lack of translations. That is highly commendable!

Just wanted to make sure you cross all your T's and dot all your i's so there will be no misunderstandings.

btw, I think i saw you in Lasts Busan qualifying stream asking for permission haha.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10035 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-02 21:07:13
February 02 2020 21:05 GMT
#20
On February 03 2020 05:39 Chef wrote:
Since you're getting some backlash, I'll go ahead and chime in I think what you're doing is fine. You're making their videos more valuable by adding subtitles to them and, unless you just haven't mentioned it, you aren't even charging the pros any money for this service. I think the two people reacting badly just didn't read your post very carefully, I can't understand their concern. The worst I can imagine is if a pro wanted to translate the video and earn the money himself, and that just isn't the case.

If the quality of the translation is par, I think the price you charge is quite fair, particularly if everyone gets to see it once it is released. Your alternative would be to set up a patreon if you release enough ones that you like.

The only thing that makes your plan vulnerable is that you could possibly have your hard work undone if a pro decides to make a video private or does something weird with their channel. It's not too likely, but I guess you could release the subtitle file as a separate download as some mitigation to that event as they may still have information people are interested in even without the video.

Good luck with your project. Most of us are freeloaders but there's a couple of people who will pay. Make sure you choose a platform people trust. One reason why Patreon works nicely is that people are supporting a service that is already being provided. It also gives people a way to chip in if $30 is too much for them. Just think about your options for a bit and make sure neither you nor people who pay you get screwed.


pretty much how i feel, we don't have anyone who can offer this type of content

That said, i think the subtitles need to be slightly improved. There's too many big blocks of text and they go away too quickly, requires a lot of pausing. Changing the font color to white would make it more eye catching as well.
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina244 Posts
February 03 2020 00:22 GMT
#21
I just think its good to have a healthy disagreement and talk thnikg out, specially considering things are rarely 100% right or wrong. Thus I also think maintaining a healthy critisism is crucial if wanna have some sort of common ground or even have our own ideas reaching others.
Fraud is a crime, so yes you are defaming OP, regardless of you saying you are not.
And I would ask you for you backing up those words or for you to held some responsability of what you said.
Because it could easily be the case that OP just like BW and is trying to make some money while putting time and effort in something he likes and others would enjoy. And the moment he tried to share it with others with maybe, the best intentions, the second feedback he gets for even trying is getting called "fraudulent".
Idk just throwing ideas, so we can try look at the same event with different point of views and talk it out instead of jumping right away to the negative conclusion.
You can prove me wrong later and I'm ready for it, but I will not jump in the accusatory/judging wagon because some random guy is just calling it. I am much more confortable in calling that guy an idiot, but hey that's me..
Standard Queens
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-03 01:23:05
February 03 2020 01:15 GMT
#22
Hey guys, I think I was not clear enough on my ideas.

Before stating my idea, I again state that I do not violate copyright issues. I think some people have missed me saying this on my original post. Anything I might do in future will require approval from the pros and the creators. I want to provide 3 options I have in mind.

Option 1:

I add subtitles on youtube videos upon your request. Your request requires to pay me some money.
With this option)
a) Beneficial for PROS/ CREATORS since the videos can be seen by more foreigners. They always ask their fans to
subscribe their youtube channels. As I add subtitles, you guys can easily access to the videos.
b) Benefical for YOU since if I translate 1 video with some amount of money, every of you can have access to it.
c) Beneficial for ME since I receive fair amount of money with my work.

Option 2:

You purchase pros' tutorials and I translate them for you. One of you mentioned I exaggerated the price of pros' tutorials. Soulkey sells his tutorials by W20.000 or 300 star balloons. If you ever want to purchase 300 star balloons in US dollar, They will ask you to pay little less than $40 US dollar. Most pros sell their tutorials around W20.000 and it requires you to pay at least $30 US dollar to purchase it. I didnt know Last sells his tutorial with W10.000, then he will probably charge you around $20 US dollar which would be cheapest tutorial.

a) Beneficial for PROS since more foreigners will purchase their tutorials.
b) Beneficial for YOU since you guys will have access to their tutorials.
c) Beneficial for ME since I receive fair amount of money with my work.

Option 3:

I want to make this clear. The reason why I want to talk about this is because people have been asking me to do this for the foreign scene. I am a full time student, and I have a stable job. I am financially stable, and earning money is not the reason I am doing this. As I mentioned in the original post, the reason why I am charging you is a compensation for my time, and it would keep me doing this job for a long time. If you guys dont want me to do this, I am fine not doing it.

I want to mention even if everyone wants me to do this, if pros dont agree with these ideas, I can not do anything. I just wanted to hear what you guys think before I even start this project.
Thanks,
cRoSs
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 03 2020 01:18 GMT
#23
On February 03 2020 06:05 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2020 05:39 Chef wrote:
Since you're getting some backlash, I'll go ahead and chime in I think what you're doing is fine. You're making their videos more valuable by adding subtitles to them and, unless you just haven't mentioned it, you aren't even charging the pros any money for this service. I think the two people reacting badly just didn't read your post very carefully, I can't understand their concern. The worst I can imagine is if a pro wanted to translate the video and earn the money himself, and that just isn't the case.

If the quality of the translation is par, I think the price you charge is quite fair, particularly if everyone gets to see it once it is released. Your alternative would be to set up a patreon if you release enough ones that you like.

The only thing that makes your plan vulnerable is that you could possibly have your hard work undone if a pro decides to make a video private or does something weird with their channel. It's not too likely, but I guess you could release the subtitle file as a separate download as some mitigation to that event as they may still have information people are interested in even without the video.

Good luck with your project. Most of us are freeloaders but there's a couple of people who will pay. Make sure you choose a platform people trust. One reason why Patreon works nicely is that people are supporting a service that is already being provided. It also gives people a way to chip in if $30 is too much for them. Just think about your options for a bit and make sure neither you nor people who pay you get screwed.


pretty much how i feel, we don't have anyone who can offer this type of content

That said, i think the subtitles need to be slightly improved. There's too many big blocks of text and they go away too quickly, requires a lot of pausing. Changing the font color to white would make it more eye catching as well.



Yes its technical thing, it was my first time doing this, so It will improve as it goes. And it is not a hard thing to fix what you have commented. I will keep it as nice as I can for sure. Thanks for the advice.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10035 Posts
February 03 2020 01:32 GMT
#24
On February 03 2020 10:15 cRoSsy wrote:
Hey guys, I think I was not clear enough on my ideas.

Before stating my idea, I again state that I do not violate copyright issues. I think some people have missed me saying this on my original post. Anything I might do in future will require approval from the pros and the creators. I want to provide 3 options I have in mind.

Option 1:

I add subtitles on youtube videos upon your request. Your request requires to pay me some money.
With this option)
a) Beneficial for PROS/ CREATORS since the videos can be seen by more foreigners. They always ask their fans to
subscribe their youtube channels. As I add subtitles, you guys can easily access to the videos.
b) Benefical for YOU since if I translate 1 video with some amount of money, every of you can have access to it.
c) Beneficial for ME since I receive fair amount of money with my work.

Option 2:

You purchase pros' tutorials and I translate them for you. One of you mentioned I exaggerated the price of pros' tutorials. Soulkey sells his tutorials by W20.000 or 300 star balloons. If you ever want to purchase 300 star balloons in US dollar, They will ask you to pay little less than $40 US dollar. Most pros sell their tutorials around W20.000 and it requires you to pay at least $30 US dollar to purchase it. I didnt know Last sells his tutorial with W10.000, then he will probably charge you around $20 US dollar which would be cheapest tutorial.

a) Beneficial for PROS since more foreigners will purchase their tutorials.
b) Beneficial for YOU since you guys will have access to their tutorials.
c) Beneficial for ME since I receive fair amount of money with my work.

Option 3:

I want to make this clear. The reason why I want to talk about this is because people have been asking me to do this for the foreign scene. I am a full time student, and I have a stable job. I am financially stable, and earning money is not the reason I am doing this. As I mentioned in the original post, the reason why I am charging you is a compensation for my time, and it would keep me doing this job for a long time. If you guys dont want me to do this, I am fine not doing it.

I want to mention even if everyone wants me to do this, if pros dont agree with these ideas, I can not do anything. I just wanted to hear what you guys think before I even start this project.
Thanks,
cRoSs


people can pick w/e they want but personally i'd go for option 1, as long as the content producers don't mind you adding subs (which i dunno why they would, you're creating more content for them/making their vids accessible for foreign fans)
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-03 05:01:26
February 03 2020 04:59 GMT
#25
I understand your passion of sc and thinking about the foreign scene, but i can already guess you won't make much of money and end up investing a lot of time. And you might lose your time for your studies like me.(8 years ago of me)

The good foreign players out there that i usually talk to are watching those expros youtube videos without subtitles for their improvement. How do they learn without knowing the language? The game flow itselfs and catching every small details that are interesting for them and chopping of the videos into frames to analyze why they made those decisions and the outcome of that decisions.

Sometimes they do hit me discord dm for a help when the pros are explaining for long time, but mostly they figure out by themselves.
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
SouL)Z(Silver
Profile Joined September 2019
Russian Federation347 Posts
February 03 2020 06:52 GMT
#26
gOgO cRoSsy!

Thank you very much for the short video from Soma. I would really like even more videos on all matchups of zerg with a detailed analysis from Pro. Ready to provide material support
SouL Gaming team | The organizer & admin large online & offline of tournaments on SC:R | Top1 National Caster
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 06 2020 09:15 GMT
#27
Hi guys,

First, thank you all for your comment on my original post.

Rus_Brain and e.sports.fund provided $400 for starcraft community to see 400 minutes worth of pro videos. E.sports.fund would like you to choose which videos you want to be translated. To be fair, I am thinking of dividing 400 minutes by 3, that each race has sufficient, equal amount of time. Please follow up on this thread which videos you would like to be translated. You can post direct links, or you can leave a comment what kind of video you want.

Once I select videos, I first will speak to the pros who have the copyrights of these videos to make sure they are aware of me translating these videos. Once this work is done, I will translate 2-3 videos per week, and it will take less than 3 months to finish all the videos. Again, to be fair, I will try my best to finish 1 video per race per week, so 3 for total per week.
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
February 06 2020 11:40 GMT
#28
On February 06 2020 18:15 cRoSsy wrote:
Hi guys,

First, thank you all for your comment on my original post.

Rus_Brain and e.sports.fund provided $400 for starcraft community to see 400 minutes worth of pro videos. E.sports.fund would like you to choose which videos you want to be translated. To be fair, I am thinking of dividing 400 minutes by 3, that each race has sufficient, equal amount of time. Please follow up on this thread which videos you would like to be translated. You can post direct links, or you can leave a comment what kind of video you want.

Once I select videos, I first will speak to the pros who have the copyrights of these videos to make sure they are aware of me translating these videos. Once this work is done, I will translate 2-3 videos per week, and it will take less than 3 months to finish all the videos. Again, to be fair, I will try my best to finish 1 video per race per week, so 3 for total per week.


Wow, so we have a duo of Crossy & Brain saving the foreign esports. :-)

I will start looking for the videos, but I think you will know best which of those are "the best ones", as it is hard for us to understand what the video is about.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Moridin
Profile Joined December 2009
Bulgaria167 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-06 18:52:55
February 06 2020 16:26 GMT
#29
The full version or any vod similar to what jinjinn did would be amazing (like light vs rain final analysis)!


It's about time.
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
February 06 2020 17:22 GMT
#30
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4TDU9SEVB0EgslnTI2O9IQ/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid

Any of those where Flash talks about game execution. :-) (e.g builds, strategy, analysis of his/other games, commentary etc.)
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Cruiser0929
Profile Joined December 2019
516 Posts
February 06 2020 19:20 GMT
#31
By the way, are you getting permission from Korean gamers?
I mean, I wonder if the copyright problem is solved.
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 06 2020 20:50 GMT
#32
On February 07 2020 04:20 Cruiser0929 wrote:
By the way, are you getting permission from Korean gamers?
I mean, I wonder if the copyright problem is solved.


Please carefully go over my comment again
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 06 2020 20:51 GMT
#33
On February 07 2020 02:22 kogeT wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4TDU9SEVB0EgslnTI2O9IQ/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid

Any of those where Flash talks about game execution. :-) (e.g builds, strategy, analysis of his/other games, commentary etc.)

Thanks koget!
Cruiser0929
Profile Joined December 2019
516 Posts
February 06 2020 23:04 GMT
#34
On February 07 2020 05:51 cRoSsy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2020 02:22 kogeT wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4TDU9SEVB0EgslnTI2O9IQ/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid

Any of those where Flash talks about game execution. :-) (e.g builds, strategy, analysis of his/other games, commentary etc.)

Thanks koget!


That's right. I heard about your three

But I think I read that Rus_Brain and Esports.Fund also provide support.

So I thought this project was going to some extent.
SCTranslator
Profile Joined February 2020
Korea (South)40 Posts
February 07 2020 16:07 GMT
#35
Hello guys,
Just in case, if you need some English-Korean or Spanish-Korean translate, check this;
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNfJZSMtKXrAKfQ3vtgSo5g

I just uploaded some classic MSL matches with English sub, also if you need some info in Korean, I could translate it.
Thanks for reading!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNfJZSMtKXrAKfQ3vtgSo5g
SCTranslator
Profile Joined February 2020
Korea (South)40 Posts
February 07 2020 16:18 GMT
#36
On February 07 2020 01:26 Moridin wrote:
The full version or any vod similar to what jinjinn did would be amazing (like light vs rain final analysis)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5OkVBeHb2o&t=4s



I could translate like this, just started uploading!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNfJZSMtKXrAKfQ3vtgSo5g

For me it was hard to find some SC subs example, I'll check that channel, I think it's great. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNfJZSMtKXrAKfQ3vtgSo5g
Dewaltoss
Profile Joined October 2015
102 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-21 08:22:26
February 21 2020 08:12 GMT
#37
www.youtube.com
Can we have translate of this?
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
February 21 2020 09:57 GMT
#38
On February 21 2020 17:12 Dewaltoss wrote:
www.youtube.com
Can we have translate of this?


+11111
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Martin11
Profile Joined January 2020
16 Posts
February 21 2020 12:54 GMT
#39
On February 21 2020 18:57 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2020 17:12 Dewaltoss wrote:
www.youtube.com
Can we have translate of this?


+11111


+111111
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 21 2020 19:58 GMT
#40
On February 21 2020 17:12 Dewaltoss wrote:
www.youtube.com
Can we have translate of this?

yes i am working on this now
Q~Bert
Profile Joined June 2006
United States670 Posts
February 21 2020 20:40 GMT
#41
Thankfully, we have Rus. A man whose generous and gives freely to the community with no expectation of anything in return. This is a $10 game that came out in 1998. Your videos have less than 1% chance of helping any current foreigner beat a current top foreigner in the future. The money you ask for is absurd. If these translations were so valuable then you'd just hoard them for yourself and win BSL and RCG which would prove infinitely more profitable. Pretty much every single aspect of foreign brood war is donated by kind souls - you're the only one out here trying to monetize the game. Scan speaks korean as well. I have never seen him trying to use this to his advantage in our community for financial gain.
aka: Yaj
KameZerg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1769 Posts
February 21 2020 21:34 GMT
#42
Heres a useful tip for you all, go to the library and borrow learn korean books for free and you can be your own translator and enjoy their fake fucking online personalities to the fullest.
asdasdasdasdasd123123123
Kare
Profile Joined March 2009
Norway786 Posts
February 21 2020 21:38 GMT
#43
I actually find the western streamers to be a lot more fake than korean sc1 streamers. There are moments of fakeness and stuff, but they're mostly serious when talking about the game and stuff like that.

Maybe that's because I almost only watch Terran streams, I've noticed that Bisu is extremely fake on stream.
In life you can obtain all sorts of material wealth, but the real treasure is the epic feelings you get while doing something you love.
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
February 21 2020 22:29 GMT
#44
On February 22 2020 05:40 Q~Bert wrote:
Thankfully, we have Rus. A man whose generous and gives freely to the community with no expectation of anything in return. This is a $10 game that came out in 1998. Your videos have less than 1% chance of helping any current foreigner beat a current top foreigner in the future. The money you ask for is absurd. If these translations were so valuable then you'd just hoard them for yourself and win BSL and RCG which would prove infinitely more profitable. Pretty much every single aspect of foreign brood war is donated by kind souls - you're the only one out here trying to monetize the game. Scan speaks korean as well. I have never seen him trying to use this to his advantage in our community for financial gain.


How old are you?
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
February 25 2020 21:42 GMT
#45


This, for the giggles :-)
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-02 23:03:54
March 02 2020 19:53 GMT
#46
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10035 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-02 21:38:22
March 02 2020 21:38 GMT
#47
edit: wrong thread
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-10 18:29:08
April 10 2020 18:29 GMT
#48
On February 06 2020 18:15 cRoSsy wrote:
Hi guys,

First, thank you all for your comment on my original post.

Rus_Brain and e.sports.fund provided $400 for starcraft community to see 400 minutes worth of pro videos. E.sports.fund would like you to choose which videos you want to be translated. To be fair, I am thinking of dividing 400 minutes by 3, that each race has sufficient, equal amount of time. Please follow up on this thread which videos you would like to be translated. You can post direct links, or you can leave a comment what kind of video you want.

Once I select videos, I first will speak to the pros who have the copyrights of these videos to make sure they are aware of me translating these videos. Once this work is done, I will translate 2-3 videos per week, and it will take less than 3 months to finish all the videos. Again, to be fair, I will try my best to finish 1 video per race per week, so 3 for total per week.


What happened to this? Haven't seen any videos posted for a while. :-)
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
cRoSsy
Profile Joined August 2019
66 Posts
April 10 2020 19:45 GMT
#49
On April 11 2020 03:29 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2020 18:15 cRoSsy wrote:
Hi guys,

First, thank you all for your comment on my original post.

Rus_Brain and e.sports.fund provided $400 for starcraft community to see 400 minutes worth of pro videos. E.sports.fund would like you to choose which videos you want to be translated. To be fair, I am thinking of dividing 400 minutes by 3, that each race has sufficient, equal amount of time. Please follow up on this thread which videos you would like to be translated. You can post direct links, or you can leave a comment what kind of video you want.

Once I select videos, I first will speak to the pros who have the copyrights of these videos to make sure they are aware of me translating these videos. Once this work is done, I will translate 2-3 videos per week, and it will take less than 3 months to finish all the videos. Again, to be fair, I will try my best to finish 1 video per race per week, so 3 for total per week.


What happened to this? Haven't seen any videos posted for a while. :-)


Hey Koget, sorry not letting you know. I had worked with pros, and they seem not interested in helping me out, for example, i finished a few vods, and uploaded c.c in their youtube, but they dont seem to accept my c.c. I asked them a several times to check it, but they seem busy or not taking it seriously. I do not want to translate in separate vods since it might violate copyright issues.

Sorry again!
SouL)Z(Silver
Profile Joined September 2019
Russian Federation347 Posts
April 11 2020 04:48 GMT
#50
oh
sad
SouL Gaming team | The organizer & admin large online & offline of tournaments on SC:R | Top1 National Caster
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6183 Posts
April 11 2020 11:27 GMT
#51
Just out of curiousity, is Blizzard ok with pros and other people selling vids of their game for money?
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#82
WardiTV687
OGKoka 343
Rex114
Liquipedia
Afreeca Starleague
10:00
Ro16 Group A
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Afreeca ASL 13444
StarCastTV_EN352
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 343
Lowko276
ProTech125
Rex 114
LamboSC2 61
Codebar 38
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 20931
Calm 16809
Bisu 8905
Jaedong 3230
Horang2 2014
BeSt 1205
EffOrt 947
Mini 801
Stork 606
firebathero 529
[ Show more ]
Light 487
Zeus 401
Pusan 387
actioN 378
ZerO 246
Soulkey 231
Larva 165
Hyun 163
Rush 94
Mind 92
Killer 65
ToSsGirL 53
Barracks 48
Sea.KH 47
yabsab 36
zelot 27
[sc1f]eonzerg 26
Nal_rA 23
Movie 20
Shinee 18
Hm[arnc] 17
soO 16
Terrorterran 15
Sacsri 13
scan(afreeca) 12
GoRush 11
Bale 10
SilentControl 10
IntoTheRainbow 10
Noble 8
Icarus 7
Dota 2
qojqva1477
syndereN203
420jenkins71
febbydoto12
Counter-Strike
olofmeister4233
fl0m3037
x6flipin434
byalli392
markeloff109
Other Games
singsing1960
B2W.Neo973
hiko814
crisheroes305
Pyrionflax181
Liquid`VortiX107
Liquid`LucifroN89
KnowMe85
QueenE76
Hui .67
RotterdaM48
Mew2King41
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV754
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 312
Counter-Strike
PGL299
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 58
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3185
• TFBlade1571
• Stunt538
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 10m
OSC
10h 10m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 10m
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
20h 10m
GSL
22h 10m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 10h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Escore
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
IPSL
5 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
Ladder Legends
6 days
BSL
6 days
IPSL
6 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.