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2 New Korean techniques - Need info/translation - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
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Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12023 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-24 12:12:11
October 24 2019 12:11 GMT
#21
On October 24 2019 20:23 outscar wrote:
WTF man, never knew and heard about mineral boosting. It's insane koreans still coming out with new glitches, bugs, holy molly.


Mineral boosting isn't new. Nada was using it years and years ago. It was one of the things that set him out from the rest as you'd see him in a TvT and despite having the same workers he'd somehow have more money.

Unless I'm thinking of a different trick which I thought was called mineral boosting.
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KungKras
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden484 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-24 14:51:38
October 24 2019 14:51 GMT
#22
Can we all just take a step back and appreciate that the game came out in 1998 and we're talking about new techniques in 2019.

God I love this game.
"When life gives me lemons, I go look for oranges"
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
October 24 2019 22:51 GMT
#23
On September 06 2019 06:23 razorsuKe wrote:
It has come to my attention that there is some new tech out there but I have no idea how to search for it and/or get a full explanation of what to do.

First one is called boost mineral (I think)
So most, if not every map, has a mineral patch or two that can get you an increased rate of return. What I think it is is after a worker mines, you press C immediately to see the effects? Or something like that. I also think it's a different patch depending on what unit is doing the gathering. I think there is a korean video out there that highlights the income you get by doing this vs just letting the workers mine undisturbed.

This has been known for a long time, at least by top tier players and by map makers (I coined the term metastable mining path for the general phenomenon). Generally mining rates for specific patches depend on mineral position, pathfinding region layout, terrain walkability and interfering nearby building units (including other resources). Exact mining rates vary depending on the race due to varying collision sizes of their respective resource depots, which has influence on both absolute travelling distance, but mostly deceleration/acceleration behaviour of workers between return and mining trip. "Boosted mining paths" are those that have very little deceleration, so the worker can turn around and return to minining a bit faster.

I believe the guys who program AIs know about this already and have implemented it. I do remember reading something about more efficient mining in the BWAPI threads.
Bots can act even more radically by continuously microing every single worker, thus eliminating most deceleration phases by waypoints, giving them mining and return commands only at the last possible moment and manually assigning each worker directly to the closest free patch, eliminating worker migration losses almost completely. This can amount to some pretty insane income boosts, but is just not humanly possible.

As for the "total recall": If you are in the business of finding better names for it, just call it "stack recall", which is bost concise and best describes the defining phenomenon of unit stacking, regardless of stacking technique employed (you can do the same using a vortex, a.k.a. stuck stack, bug for example.
The limiting factor is the size of the recall target area and how many units can fit in there, as has already been pointed out. Here is the test map I made. It shows that the maximum number of Dragoons in a recall on an open plain is 56.
Akio
Profile Blog Joined January 2019
Finland1838 Posts
October 25 2019 04:58 GMT
#24
On October 24 2019 23:51 KungKras wrote:
Can we all just take a step back and appreciate that the game came out in 1998 and we're talking about new techniques in 2019.

God I love this game.

The sad thing is we will probably never have a game like this, where it's up to the players to figure everything out, not relying on developers and constant balance patches etc.

The good thing is that we can just keep playing Brood War, why even stop honestly?
Mine gas, build tanks.
KungKras
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden484 Posts
October 25 2019 09:34 GMT
#25
On October 25 2019 13:58 Akio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2019 23:51 KungKras wrote:
Can we all just take a step back and appreciate that the game came out in 1998 and we're talking about new techniques in 2019.

God I love this game.

The sad thing is we will probably never have a game like this, where it's up to the players to figure everything out, not relying on developers and constant balance patches etc.

The good thing is that we can just keep playing Brood War, why even stop honestly?


I'm never stopping that's for sure
"When life gives me lemons, I go look for oranges"
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-25 21:51:43
October 25 2019 21:50 GMT
#26
On October 24 2019 21:11 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2019 20:23 outscar wrote:
WTF man, never knew and heard about mineral boosting. It's insane koreans still coming out with new glitches, bugs, holy molly.


Mineral boosting isn't new. Nada was using it years and years ago. It was one of the things that set him out from the rest as you'd see him in a TvT and despite having the same workers he'd somehow have more money.

Unless I'm thinking of a different trick which I thought was called mineral boosting.


That's really interesting, are you sure it's because NaDa was using this technique? I knew that pros used to manually send their workers to certain patches at very start (especially zerg) to increase mining efficiency but never heard about them hitting C and using return cargo spell. Only heard pros using return cargo command was when if opponents worker was blocking ramp they used it to get into enemies base. I can't find a VOD but I think it was a game go.go vs. TT. If someone can find that game please share because I might be mistaken.
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