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51502 Posts
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51502 Posts
sorry i missed out on this news yesterday morning but i was at work. didn't even know they'd have the wildcard matches played so soon after the official announcement.
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The terran dark age cometh?
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On December 21 2018 04:11 errol1001 wrote:
The terran dark age cometh?
Very likely. The price we pay, I guess.
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Profound sadness... I hope he gets better
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Wow this is huge news. Hope it makes front page of TL.
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When do the actual qualifiers start?
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What was the cause of his injury to begin with?
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On December 21 2018 04:11 TaardadAiel wrote:Very likely. The price we pay, I guess.
For 20 years of dominance?
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On December 21 2018 05:17 Cheesefome wrote:
What was the cause of his injury to begin with?
DDR
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Flash being a merciful deity letting other people have a chance to win.
In all seriousness I hope he can recover and come back for next season.
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On December 21 2018 05:38 Highgamer wrote:
God has a plan.
“God is dead“ -the wrist.
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On December 21 2018 04:57 Alpha-NP- wrote:
When do the actual qualifiers start?
5th/6th/7th of january (as shown at the end of the wildcard match stream - if im not mistaken)
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Germany3128 Posts
On December 21 2018 05:22 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2018 05:17 Cheesefome wrote:
What was the cause of his injury to begin with? DDR
the arch enemy of all progamers after they hit puberty
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"I am your God now." -God's wrist
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Action vs Mini game 4 was pretty fun for anyone looking for a VOD
although I'm not sure how the loser lost in the end,
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TLADT24920 Posts
Sad to see. I wonder if this is a sign of him eventually leaving for his impending military enlistment. Just hope he doesn't disappear as fast as Shuttle did.
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The matches were tense, especially Action - Miso
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On December 21 2018 05:22 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2018 05:17 Cheesefome wrote:
What was the cause of his injury to begin with? DDR
What does this stand for? I'm assuming we aren't talking about Dance Dance Revolution.
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It's a shame that both Flash and Jaedong have wrist issues 
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On December 21 2018 08:27 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2018 05:22 Jealous wrote:On December 21 2018 05:17 Cheesefome wrote:
What was the cause of his injury to begin with? DDR What does this stand for? I'm assuming we aren't talking about Dance Dance Revolution.
It was a joke originally attributed to (I think XellOs?) cause he was a frequent meat-beater in the team house. Us foreigners thought it meant dance dance revolution but it turns out DDR is the english acronym for masturbating in Korean.
EDIT:
Confirmed! It is xellos hahaha
https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/130_XellOs
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That sucks. I guess only good thing to come of this is that the match results will be more unpredictable but this still sucks.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
looks like terminator needs an upgrade
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Germany3128 Posts
On December 21 2018 08:27 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2018 05:22 Jealous wrote:On December 21 2018 05:17 Cheesefome wrote:
What was the cause of his injury to begin with? DDR What does this stand for? I'm assuming we aren't talking about Dance Dance Revolution.
"XellOs was also known as the "DDR Terran". When GO was visited, written on a whiteboard was the comment "If XellOs refrains from DDR, he wins OSL." While foreigners may interpret the acronym DDR as the famous game Dance Dance Revolution, Koreans also use DDR when referring to masturbation or "Ddal Ddal Re." When GoRush commented that the progamer he respects the most is XellOs due to his "night work," XellOs was sealed as the DDR Terran"
From XellOs LP
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This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military.
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Dam that's sad news take your time to recover Flash we need to see you play for at least another 1-2 more years before you go to the military!
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Against all odds (and with a little help from mapmakers and then Effort), the four titles curse continues. No one with 4 OSL, MSL, or ASL.
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Noo....
Does anyone have a link to the Rain vs Sharp / Mini vs Action vods? (Preferably with eng commentary) Thanks.
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awww... so sad... i wonder if this would result to him going to the army sooner than expected,
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Ah, thanks man!
I accidentally pressed the spoilers and saw the result anyways ... smh
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On December 21 2018 05:43 Cele wrote:“God is dead“ -the wrist.
LOL
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StarCraft is a young man's game. It's amazing that he kept playing so long after 2011.
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Hope God gets well soon, he's been through a lot but I'm sure he'll pull through.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military.
That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament.
Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On December 22 2018 00:57 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament. Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad.
I think the argument holds if you make the champions accountable for consistency. Soulkey and Effort now have to at a minimum make the round of four in both tournaments and need to make the finals in at least one of the tournaments. I have a feeling both of these players won't come close to that expectation. Yet, if we regard Flash (even his current state), you could really believe he is capable of such results. Soulkey and Effort are the best at the moment, but I regard them as flavor of the month players right now. It was just a short period ago where we saw protoss domination and thought the same thing about Rain.
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My impression of the finals is that Effort just sorta has Flash's number in a Bo5 setting and is great at preparing and knowing how to exploit Flash's train of thought to get advantages. But Flash is still the better player overall and if you made them play 100 games Flash would probably win 60-70 of them (assuming physical issues weren't a problem). Or if you made the top 20 players all play each other 10 times or something Flash would be at the top by a wide margin.
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Now, without Bisu and Flash zergs will have a free reign!
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 22 2018 01:04 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 00:57 BigFan wrote:On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament. Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad. I think the argument holds if you make the champions accountable for consistency. Soulkey and Effort now have to at a minimum make the round of four in both tournaments and need to make the finals in at least one of the tournaments. I have a feeling both of these players won't come close to that expectation. Yet, if we regard Flash (even his current state), you could really believe he is capable of such results. Soulkey and Effort are the best at the moment, but I regard them as flavor of the month players right now. It was just a short period ago where we saw protoss domination and thought the same thing about Rain.
oh don't get me wrong, I agree somewhat. I wouldn't call them flavour of the month though, just that they lack consistency and drive much like Rain. I think both players will likely falter in the next ASL or KSL while you could always count on Flash to at least make the finals, and in most cases, win the whole thing outright. Watching him win ASL in 2017, you could see it. He was a player that rarely made mistakes, made the best decisions, and knew how to play the race. Everyone was scared of meeting Flash, and everyone spoke highly of him. His mindset was on another level, and he always spoke of how he was not worried, and that he's the best. Flash is pretty much the only player in this era that has forced balance whining, and showed that he can dominate everyone.
On December 22 2018 01:57 Ideas wrote:
My impression of the finals is that Effort just sorta has Flash's number in a Bo5 setting and is great at preparing and knowing how to exploit Flash's train of thought to get advantages. But Flash is still the better player overall and if you made them play 100 games Flash would probably win 60-70 of them (assuming physical issues weren't a problem). Or if you made the top 20 players all play each other 10 times or something Flash would be at the top by a wide margin.
Maybe that's true, hard to tell tbh. I would probably say Flash wins closer to 70-80 if he actually uses bio, aka no wrist problems preventing him from doing it. EffOrt won their latest BO5, but when it came to preparation tournaments, the two only meet twice in 8+ years. That's not a look to go off.
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On December 22 2018 02:11 Ideas wrote:Effort also beat flash in this thing:  Seoul Cup - OGN Super Match but I don't know how much that really counts.
That counts like everything man. Don't mind BigFan, this guy will always find a way to tell you that it's "That's not a look to go off." for anything that implies Flash losing to someone, particularly when it comes to zerg, he probably is maltreated by them I guess 
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 22 2018 02:11 Ideas wrote:Effort also beat flash in this thing: Seoul Cup - OGN Super Match but I don't know how much that really counts.
That's a showmatch, a minor event. It's nothing prestigious like the OSL of old or the ASL/KSL of recent times.
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Damn, I've always respected Flash for being a hard yet humble worker and wanted to believe his wrist condition was fully resolved following his past surgery. I also wanted one more FvJ final or at least a playoff match before either departed for the military.
Ultimately though, he does need to take care of himself for the long-term. He has a bright future ahead of him - with that approach he has to things I'd like to think he'd go far in life regardless of profession.
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On December 22 2018 02:20 BigFan wrote:That's a showmatch, a minor event. It's nothing prestigious like the OSL of old or the ASL/KSL of recent times.
That's a load of BS. I remember that tournament, and all the players were playing really hard. This was when ASL was the only thing going around in Broodwar and everyone was seeking more live tournaments.
You're the master of revisionist history when it comes to these things.
Flash does no want to lose, period. I remember when he lost in DSL vs. Best he looked like his family was dragged through public torture.
Flash is good and the best but there are players out there that can beat him when he is also at his peak. BW is a taxing game, no one is invincible.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 22 2018 06:11 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 02:20 BigFan wrote:On December 22 2018 02:11 Ideas wrote:Effort also beat flash in this thing: Seoul Cup - OGN Super Match but I don't know how much that really counts. That's a showmatch, a minor event. It's nothing prestigious like the OSL of old or the ASL/KSL of recent times. That's a load of BS. I remember that tournament, and all the players were playing really hard. This was when ASL was the only thing going around in Broodwar and everyone was seeking more live tournaments. You're the master of revisionist history when it comes to these things. Flash does no want to lose, period. I remember when he lost in DSL vs. Best he looked like his family was dragged through public torture. Flash is good and the best but there are players out there that can beat him when he is also at his peak. BW is a taxing game, no one is invincible.
This event features former Progamers Flash, Stork, BeSt and EffOrt facing off in a Double Elimination mini tournament. From LP
This was a four person mini-tournament, not some tournament that had qualifiers and where the players had to go from the Ro24 to the finals and prepare for each stage. No one in their right mind would put this on the level of an ASL or KSL. Even WEGL was rougher than this, and that was an 8 man tournament. Also, I don't know where you see this as me claiming that Flash doesn't want to win lol. Flash is the best, he truly believes it so he'll obviously true hard regardless, but Flash's true strength has always been how he's able to get into his opponents' mind, and prepare hard. Like how he went for a proxy rax during the ASL4 finals against hero, and completely decimated him while hero figured he'll try to get the upper hand with macro. You're free to decide how much weight the tournament holds, I know how much it does for me.
This also had no prize money, but likely appearance features which afaik would've been paid upfront. Aka, there's no 15-20,000k on the line for winning aside from pride which admittedly is important to these players, but pride won't pay for your living expenses either:
Prize money was not awarded, while possible appearance fees for the players were not publicly made available
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No one's going to talk about how Sharp beat Rain again?
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All of Sharp's wins were timing attacks though or scrappy early-mid games. Rain is still a scary macro proposition for any Terran.This series didn't change that in my view. It just solidified Sharp as a great terran running today.
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United States10239 Posts
On December 22 2018 06:11 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 02:20 BigFan wrote:On December 22 2018 02:11 Ideas wrote:Effort also beat flash in this thing: Seoul Cup - OGN Super Match but I don't know how much that really counts. That's a showmatch, a minor event. It's nothing prestigious like the OSL of old or the ASL/KSL of recent times. That's a load of BS. I remember that tournament, and all the players were playing really hard. This was when ASL was the only thing going around in Broodwar and everyone was seeking more live tournaments. You're the master of revisionist history when it comes to these things. Flash does no want to lose, period. I remember when he lost in DSL vs. Best he looked like his family was dragged through public torture. Flash is good and the best but there are players out there that can beat him when he is also at his peak. BW is a taxing game, no one is invincible.
imagine calling someone else a revisionist while you go parading around thinking a 4 man showmatch is more important than a ro24 + qualifier + actual titled and recognized major tournament.
guess by your logic Rain vs Last ASL vs KSL at blizzcon has a ton of weight too right?
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On December 22 2018 07:41 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 06:11 oxKnu wrote:On December 22 2018 02:20 BigFan wrote:On December 22 2018 02:11 Ideas wrote:Effort also beat flash in this thing: Seoul Cup - OGN Super Match but I don't know how much that really counts. That's a showmatch, a minor event. It's nothing prestigious like the OSL of old or the ASL/KSL of recent times. That's a load of BS. I remember that tournament, and all the players were playing really hard. This was when ASL was the only thing going around in Broodwar and everyone was seeking more live tournaments. You're the master of revisionist history when it comes to these things. Flash does no want to lose, period. I remember when he lost in DSL vs. Best he looked like his family was dragged through public torture. Flash is good and the best but there are players out there that can beat him when he is also at his peak. BW is a taxing game, no one is invincible. imagine calling someone else a revisionist while you go parading around thinking a 4 man showmatch is more important than a ro24 + qualifier + actual titled and recognized major tournament. guess by your logic Rain vs Last ASL vs KSL at blizzcon has a ton of weight too right?
Never did I say this was more important then the bigger tournaments. The TL brigade of writers has a very strawman like way or arguing points around here. I won't indulge in this lame exercise. Sorry.
However I would say that it's important for you guys to understand that the Korean community of pros is quite small and wins even in less advertised or non-english commented events are quite important too. Yes pride matters.
Some of us are enjoying the quality BW nonetheless but personally I'm a bit unamused by the pseudo-journalism injected into these threads by people that fail to acknowledge that there's a scene beyond the two main tournaments.
It's whatever anyways.
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Flash wins:
-> He's obviously the better player, he's god. Also he has an aura
-> Flash will ofc win the next big thing too!
Flash loses:
-> the maps favor the opponent
-> Flash wrist hurts
-> Flash didn't really want to win it so bad
-> the opponent made a mistake by not respecting Flash Aura enough
-> his opponent will surely falter in the next tournament and fade away
Justbigfanthings
i propose that Flash will never be lower than Rank #2 in the PR because of his Aura!!
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 22 2018 08:04 Cele wrote:
Flash wins:
-> He's obviously the better player, he's god. Also he has an aura
-> Flash will ofc win the next big thing too!
Flash loses:
-> the maps favor the opponent
-> Flash wrist hurts
-> Flash didn't really want to win it so bad
-> the opponent made a mistake by not respecting Flash Aura enough
-> his opponent will surely falter in the next tournament and fade away
Justbigfanthings
i propose that Flash will never be lower than Rank #2 in the PR because of his Aura!!
I know you're trying to have some fun with this, but maybe re-read my original post on this. If anything, I'm the guy who's saying that we should respect his ASL6 win, but sure, I'd like to see EffOrt maintain some consistency and prove me wrong. I think it's high time we got a consistent Zerg champion, and I don't mind either EffOrt or Soulkey being that champion (well, Larva too, but he's not there yet):
On December 22 2018 00:57 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament. Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad.
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I suppose it shouldn't be called the Achilles heel but the God's wrist. He mentioned his military service during the interview post-ASL s6 finals, let's hope it doesn't happen yet. Especially when there's still over 9 months till Bisu comes back (hopefully TT)
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Flash has been rank rank 1 in ELO for 18 consecutive months now. Also for most of the time the ELO gap between him and rank 2 has been bigger than the gaps below.
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On December 21 2018 06:23 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2018 05:22 Jealous wrote:On December 21 2018 05:17 Cheesefome wrote:
What was the cause of his injury to begin with? DDR the arch enemy of all progamers after they hit puberty
XellOs is weeping somewhere with that comment
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So does anyone know the cause of the surgery?
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ASL 1 - top 8
ASL 2 - 1st
ASL 3 - 1st
ASL 4 - 1st
ASL 5 - top 8
ASL 6 - 2nd
These are the starleagues that FlaSh has played in the new era. But please, show me anyone with a remotely comparable record. ASL 5 maps were unbalanced for TvP pretty sure that is well established. For reference, EffOrt looks like:
ASL 1 - eliminated in first group
ASL 2 - top 24
ASL 3 - top 16
ASL 4 - top 16
ASL 5 - top 16
ASL 6 - 1st
But no, clearly you must be a Flash fanboy to think that Effort isn't better then him... I wonder why people hate on Flash. It's so weird to me - why do you have contempt for someone so admirable?
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United States10239 Posts
On December 22 2018 08:04 Cele wrote:
Flash wins:
-> He's obviously the better player, he's god. Also he has an aura
-> Flash will ofc win the next big thing too!
Flash loses:
-> the maps favor the opponent
-> Flash wrist hurts
-> Flash didn't really want to win it so bad
-> the opponent made a mistake by not respecting Flash Aura enough
-> his opponent will surely falter in the next tournament and fade away
Justbigfanthings
i propose that Flash will never be lower than Rank #2 in the PR because of his Aura!!
imagine not even attempting to properly frame someone's argument properly to criticize it. read what rodya wrote. you really think people give flash the benefit of the doubt for no reason? jesus christ you people give me an aneurysm every time i come onto this site.
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people got miffed only because somebody decide to wave off that small tournament where effort beat flash as inconsequential.
like seriously, he beat flash in a bo5, full stop. can you beat flash in a bo5? can anyone? yes flash is the GOAT, but give credit where credit is due, if theres anybody whom you can bet on to beat flash in a high boX its effort.
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And Snow too right. He won an ASL finals against Flash also if I’m not mistaken.
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Grah the second winner of the tie breakers breaks my soul
Obviously a loss to go another season without the big bad lurking.
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On December 22 2018 07:16 Ty2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 06:55 JieXian wrote:
No one's going to talk about how Sharp beat Rain again? How did Rain take 2 games off of Sharp....Is Sharp starting to get off his game?
Haha oh no you didn't!
On December 22 2018 00:57 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament. Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad.
From which hat did you pull that out off?
If you came in with a sick stats a la Letmelose at least that's something... but I don't see anything but baseless conjectures. We all thought Flash has a higher chance to win with whatever build he used, but he didn't that last time.
+ Show Spoiler +I can imagine you giving excuses for months if you were to lose to me in a grudge match.
hahahahaha
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On December 22 2018 10:31 Rodya wrote:
ASL 1 - top 8
ASL 2 - 1st
ASL 3 - 1st
ASL 4 - 1st
ASL 5 - top 8
ASL 6 - 2nd
These are the starleagues that FlaSh has played in the new era. But please, show me anyone with a remotely comparable record. ASL 5 maps were unbalanced for TvP pretty sure that is well established. For reference, EffOrt looks like:
ASL 1 - eliminated in first group
ASL 2 - top 24
ASL 3 - top 16
ASL 4 - top 16
ASL 5 - top 16
ASL 6 - 1st
But no, clearly you must be a Flash fanboy to think that Effort isn't better then him... I wonder why people hate on Flash. It's so weird to me - why do you have contempt for someone so admirable?
This is a really ironic post to be made by someone who made excuses for Koreans losing to foreigners in SC2 for months ahahahahaah
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On December 22 2018 17:50 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 10:31 Rodya wrote:
ASL 1 - top 8
ASL 2 - 1st
ASL 3 - 1st
ASL 4 - 1st
ASL 5 - top 8
ASL 6 - 2nd
These are the starleagues that FlaSh has played in the new era. But please, show me anyone with a remotely comparable record. ASL 5 maps were unbalanced for TvP pretty sure that is well established. For reference, EffOrt looks like:
ASL 1 - eliminated in first group
ASL 2 - top 24
ASL 3 - top 16
ASL 4 - top 16
ASL 5 - top 16
ASL 6 - 1st
But no, clearly you must be a Flash fanboy to think that Effort isn't better then him... I wonder why people hate on Flash. It's so weird to me - why do you have contempt for someone so admirable? This is a really ironic post to be made by someone who made excuses for Koreans losing to foreigners in SC2 for months ahahahahaah
Because that's surely relevant to his point ^^ ?
I'm happy to see TL doesn't change, power rank ish bickering is always a joy to behold.
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On December 22 2018 08:56 Kurao wrote:
I suppose it shouldn't be called the Achilles heel but the God's wrist. He mentioned his military service during the interview post-ASL s6 finals, let's hope it doesn't happen yet. Especially when there's still over 9 months till Bisu comes back (hopefully TT)
Bisu has secured Korean peace, Kim Jong Un wants to negotiate now. They should send him home soon. :D
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On December 22 2018 17:25 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 07:16 Ty2 wrote:On December 22 2018 06:55 JieXian wrote:
No one's going to talk about how Sharp beat Rain again? How did Rain take 2 games off of Sharp....Is Sharp starting to get off his game? Haha oh no you didn't! Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 00:57 BigFan wrote:On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament. Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad. From which hat did you pull that out off? If you came in with a sick stats a la Letmelose at least that's something... but I don't see anything but baseless conjectures. We all thought Flash has a higher chance to win with whatever build he used, but he didn't that last time. + Show Spoiler +I can imagine you giving excuses for months if you were to lose to me in a grudge match.
hahahahaha
Let's take a step back and remember how this conversation started. I was addressing a person that declared Flash as the "best player in the world". What you guys are arguing with Effort is the "best player to beat Flash".
Flash is by far a better pick then Effort for best player in the world. And it's easy when you consider the best needs to be the best in all 3 match ups. Effort falls way short in ZvZ ( 19 wins - 20 losses (48.72%) ) meanwhile Flash dominates his mirror matchup (21 wins - 7 losses (75.00%) ) along with his non-mirror matchups. You can try and argue the volatility of ZvZ, but I think it is a weak argument we considering a player to be the best.
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They will just replace the cyborg arm with a new one people, don't worry yourselves.
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On December 22 2018 08:56 Kurao wrote:
I suppose it shouldn't be called the Achilles heel but the God's wrist. He mentioned his military service during the interview post-ASL s6 finals, let's hope it doesn't happen yet. Especially when there's still over 9 months till Bisu comes back (hopefully TT)
How can he even go to military if he can't even play BW? I mean, maybe they will take him as a military tactician or something but he still has to do basic lol.
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On December 23 2018 00:32 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 17:25 JieXian wrote:On December 22 2018 07:16 Ty2 wrote:On December 22 2018 06:55 JieXian wrote:
No one's going to talk about how Sharp beat Rain again? How did Rain take 2 games off of Sharp....Is Sharp starting to get off his game? Haha oh no you didn't! On December 22 2018 00:57 BigFan wrote:On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament. Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad. From which hat did you pull that out off? If you came in with a sick stats a la Letmelose at least that's something... but I don't see anything but baseless conjectures. We all thought Flash has a higher chance to win with whatever build he used, but he didn't that last time. + Show Spoiler +I can imagine you giving excuses for months if you were to lose to me in a grudge match.
hahahahaha Let's take a step back and remember how this conversation started. I was addressing a person that declared Flash as the "best player in the world". What you guys are arguing with Effort is the "best player to beat Flash". Flash is by far a better pick then Effort for best player in the world. And it's easy when you consider the best needs to be the best in all 3 match ups. Effort falls way short in ZvZ ( 19 wins - 20 losses (48.72%) ) meanwhile Flash dominates his mirror matchup (21 wins - 7 losses (75.00%) ) along with his non-mirror matchups. You can try and argue the volatility of ZvZ, but I think it is a weak argument we considering a player to be the best.
I don't belong to the same group as "you guys". I just stated that we all expected Flash to be the better player in any match up no matter what build he used. I don't think there's any argument to be made pick Effort over Flash for best player in the world + Show Spoiler +or as as some would say, out of the question
I was merely disputing a single line from BigFan, which I think you can agree, is a baseless statement without any value that appears to be excuses for Flash's loss, unless he actually has some proper basis for all the following points that I wasn't aware of:
my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour.
1) Was Flash not at 100% during the finals? Was it a particuarly bad day for his wrists such that it affected his performance badly?
2) Is 1-1-1 into bio easier on the wrists? What is the basis of that? I see early game vulture and wraith micro with intense requirement to scout for allins, as opposed to sitting at home with mnm but I am not an authority on the matter.
3) Does Flash have a higher chance to win going for a bio-based build and a lower chance to win going 1-1-1 vs Effort? What is the basis of that?
4) Even if 2 and 3 are true, is 1-1-1 so significantly easier on the wrists that Flash would rather go for a suboptimal build? Or did he open 1-1-1 for another reason like its suitability (higher chance to win) for the map?
5) What about Effort, was he perfectly fine at 100% with no wrist pains? Effort might not be at 100% either and who knows what would have happened if both of them were at 100%. What's the point of all this conjecture?
It's so frustrating to have to list this down an argue about this. I can understand the discussion if we were talking about Last vs Soulkey in KSL2. Last played exceptionally badly. However it's still unfair to Soulkey to say that if Last were at 100%, he wouldn't have gone for those all-ins and would've "more than likely" won the set. We can only say that Last probably would not have done those allins and would have probably put up a better fight.
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that sucks, but at least the replacement matches were good shit
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On December 22 2018 10:38 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 08:04 Cele wrote:
Flash wins:
-> He's obviously the better player, he's god. Also he has an aura
-> Flash will ofc win the next big thing too!
Flash loses:
-> the maps favor the opponent
-> Flash wrist hurts
-> Flash didn't really want to win it so bad
-> the opponent made a mistake by not respecting Flash Aura enough
-> his opponent will surely falter in the next tournament and fade away
Justbigfanthings
i propose that Flash will never be lower than Rank #2 in the PR because of his Aura!!
imagine not even attempting to properly frame someone's argument properly to criticize it. read what rodya wrote. you really think people give flash the benefit of the doubt for no reason? jesus christ you people give me an aneurysm every time i come onto this site.
Now i am already “you people“ huh? I think you should take a step back from this because apparently you take the whole thing quite serious.
I was just pointing out, that bigfan is sometimes a bit over the top in being a fanboy. I mean thats allright, everybody can ofc have some bias for his favorite player. I simply find his way of finding an excuse in external factors whenever Flash loses funny. Thats my observation of various threads where the subject got touched.
And for clarification: i made no statement about Effort being a better player overall. He was the better player in that series, because he won it thats all to it. I made a statement about the misleading idea that we can just assume that Flash lost due to his wrist pain -> proclaimed need to play the 1-1-1.
I refer to Jealous post here, it's tedious to spell it out.
You get an aneurysm by me making a joke about Bigfan being a fanboy? What the hell is your problem precisely?
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United States10239 Posts
On December 23 2018 09:10 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 10:38 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 22 2018 08:04 Cele wrote:
Flash wins:
-> He's obviously the better player, he's god. Also he has an aura
-> Flash will ofc win the next big thing too!
Flash loses:
-> the maps favor the opponent
-> Flash wrist hurts
-> Flash didn't really want to win it so bad
-> the opponent made a mistake by not respecting Flash Aura enough
-> his opponent will surely falter in the next tournament and fade away
Justbigfanthings
i propose that Flash will never be lower than Rank #2 in the PR because of his Aura!!
imagine not even attempting to properly frame someone's argument properly to criticize it. read what rodya wrote. you really think people give flash the benefit of the doubt for no reason? jesus christ you people give me an aneurysm every time i come onto this site. Now i am already “you people“ huh?
you always have been "you people"
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TLADT24920 Posts
Cmon guys, let's just focus on the topic of Flash leaving and what it means. Let's also just agree to disagree as usual on Flash vs EffOrt.
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On December 23 2018 12:42 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2018 09:10 Cele wrote:On December 22 2018 10:38 FlaShFTW wrote:On December 22 2018 08:04 Cele wrote:
Flash wins:
-> He's obviously the better player, he's god. Also he has an aura
-> Flash will ofc win the next big thing too!
Flash loses:
-> the maps favor the opponent
-> Flash wrist hurts
-> Flash didn't really want to win it so bad
-> the opponent made a mistake by not respecting Flash Aura enough
-> his opponent will surely falter in the next tournament and fade away
Justbigfanthings
i propose that Flash will never be lower than Rank #2 in the PR because of his Aura!!
imagine not even attempting to properly frame someone's argument properly to criticize it. read what rodya wrote. you really think people give flash the benefit of the doubt for no reason? jesus christ you people give me an aneurysm every time i come onto this site. Now i am already “you people“ huh? you always have been "you people"
i dunno, if you feel like insulting me for that joke, just go right along. People here can read and make up their own mind.
At least i don't think thats a fair way to behave on a forum unlike "you people" who get aggressive when they feel threatened in their fanboy-ism.
Just for curiosity: who is "you people" and what do we do in general that triggers your nerdrage so hard?
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On December 23 2018 00:32 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2018 17:25 JieXian wrote:On December 22 2018 07:16 Ty2 wrote:On December 22 2018 06:55 JieXian wrote:
No one's going to talk about how Sharp beat Rain again? How did Rain take 2 games off of Sharp....Is Sharp starting to get off his game? Haha oh no you didn't! On December 22 2018 00:57 BigFan wrote:On December 22 2018 00:42 BisuDagger wrote:On December 21 2018 13:04 Ideas wrote:
This really sucks. No offense to KSL but starleague wins don't feel as "real" to me if you know the best player in the world isn't in it :\
I hope flash can recover and come back for at least 1 more ASL before going to military. That brings up a good question. If his physical capabilities were not hindered, would he be the current #1 unbeatable player. There are lots of different champions in the last 4 starleagues, but none of them look as invincible as Flash did during his triple ASL run. Being that his ASL run was just a year prior, I think we could argue that he would still be winning every tournament. Don't open that can of worms! lol. I tried mentioning it during the ASL6 finals LR, but I rattled several folks it seems, and I also don't like questioning the result at this point. Either way, my thoughts on this is that if Flash was 100%, he would've used more bio-based builds, instead of the 1-1-1 which is easier on the wrists and the finals would've more than likely ended in his favour. However, that would also be making excuses because EffOrt also plays the game at a high APM so his wrists are probably close to getting busted as well. It's much like Last having bad wrists again, and getting destroyed by SK in KSL2. Would he have won their series or was SK still that much better regardless that day? It's part of their physical training, aka preservation so we should just forget about this imo. I would've liked to see him 5 rax +1 for just a bit more time, too bad. From which hat did you pull that out off? If you came in with a sick stats a la Letmelose at least that's something... but I don't see anything but baseless conjectures. We all thought Flash has a higher chance to win with whatever build he used, but he didn't that last time. + Show Spoiler +I can imagine you giving excuses for months if you were to lose to me in a grudge match.
hahahahaha Let's take a step back and remember how this conversation started. I was addressing a person that declared Flash as the "best player in the world". What you guys are arguing with Effort is the "best player to beat Flash". Flash is by far a better pick then Effort for best player in the world. And it's easy when you consider the best needs to be the best in all 3 match ups. Effort falls way short in ZvZ ( 19 wins - 20 losses (48.72%) ) meanwhile Flash dominates his mirror matchup (21 wins - 7 losses (75.00%) ) along with his non-mirror matchups. You can try and argue the volatility of ZvZ, but I think it is a weak argument we considering a player to be the best.
I guess that's fair, but Effort really did get screwed with being stuck in all ZvZ groups. The way I always thought of StarCraft back in the day was not who is the best player in the world, but who could beat who. And Effort has always been someone who could stand toe to toe with Flash, just like Jaedong and Bisu and Stork. You just know the quality of those games is going to be stellar, and even if you have a favourite it's hard to call the winner.
On the other hand, both PvP and ZvZ suffer, and ZvZ does the most. In every other matchup a better player gets more opportunities to pull ahead, a weaker player gets more opportunities to make mistakes as the game goes into mid and late. In TvT especially almost all games go to late game. So if you're saying it's a weak argument when considering who is the best player in the world, I'd say it's just as easy to rephrase it as an argument for why all Terran are overall stronger, not just Flash, than their asymmetric counterparts who might be able to go pretty evenly with them. On the other hand, I genuinely think long televised TvT matches were part of Flash's wrist problems (to, miraculously, somehow come back on topic) who always pushed himself very hard. I remember some games where it really seemed like players would purposely try to make the games go long against him, particularly in winners league, or the opposing team would send Terran after Terran.
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He’ ll be back in a Flash.
He just needs some wrest.
Last Asl he wasn’t making an effort.
It’s raining outside.
Last time I found my Soulkey.
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EPT
