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10dla
127 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/11xxUCB.jpg) The Picture is always in front. Is it still necessary to cover the entire map in FoW? There are 20 years of mapmaking. Not sure if its to be expected to know all those maps. Pretty sure all it does/did is limit the amount of maps that are played (FS). And its just another barrier. Using NexusImage and TurboTop | ||
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[AS]Rattus
428 Posts
i still like the complete black minimap though. They show the map before the game starts, thats enough imo. And i don't limit myself to playing only FS either. Thats the only map i vetoed in ranked. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19327 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Gorgonoth
United States468 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
It's beginner friendly, but hardcore players still don't lose a facet of skill. | ||
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Starecat
940 Posts
There is also a mechanic aspect to that you need to see a buildable terrain to create a building right? Meaning you need more attention to a worker in order to build, right? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
As far as i understand you need the full black fog because you otherwise could always mineralwalk and get a scout? Though there might be another solution for this. | ||
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M.R. McThundercrotch
United States265 Posts
As for building and mineral-walking, you would still have two different types of fog: one darker and one lighter, with the darker one functioning just like the black does now. You just make the black slightly transparent. If you are really looking for changes to make the game more friendly to new players without effecting the real competition, this is the first and best option. However, is making the game more friendly to new players really a big concern? I feel like that ship has sailed. At this point, you are either in even with the pain or you are playing something else, haha. (Full disclosure: I have two monitors and on my second monitor, I have build orders and pictures of the ladder maps. So...) | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
Anyways, it’s probably a nice quality of life thing that should be implemented, but people have to realize that Starcraft was not made with an intent of the game being played competitively. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
It would be pretty easy to add it as a feature for standard melee/ladder play and a proper implementation could fix some of the issues, such as the need to keep mains blacked out to prevent initial enemy buildings and creep from being automatically revealed and giving away one's opponent's starting position, that preplaced buildings and resources can still be rightclicked, or the fact that already scouted areas cannot be distinguished from unscouted ones (by adding a darker FOW, like in SC2). Just make the feature optional and require both players to agree on using it, and every one should be happy. Tourney hosts can then decide on their own whether they want to allow it for their games or not. | ||
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
On May 21 2018 06:30 The_Red_Viper wrote: This is by far the most annoying thing about bw for me because it doesn't really add any worthwhile skill. I don't think there is one player in the whole world who was excited he got better at clicking his unit through the fog of war. As far as i understand you need the full black fog because you otherwise could always mineralwalk and get a scout? Though there might be another solution for this. Nope, you need real vision for mineral walk. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On May 21 2018 07:05 Freakling wrote: FOW free map versions are one of the main features requested by players whenever new (foreign) maps are used in a tourney. So there is definitely a demand, and on any level of play it is definitely good if players have a way to familiarize themselves with a map by just playing it and not having to worry about getting their scouts lost and not knowing where to expand. It would be pretty easy to add it as a feature for standard melee/ladder play and a proper implementation could fix some of the issues, such as the need to keep mains blacked out to prevent initial enemy buildings and creep from being automatically revealed and giving away one's opponent's starting position, that preplaced buildings and resources can still be rightclicked, or the fact that already scouted areas cannot be distinguished from unscouted ones (by adding a darker FOW, like in SC2). Just make the feature optional and require both players to agree on using it, and every one should be happy. Tourney hosts can then decide on their own whether they want to allow it for their games or not. You know those maps with the checkboard-style fog-of-war? That seems like a good compromise because you can see the map, but can't place buildings in spots you haven't explored. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5092 Posts
2. You frequently revisit your scout while you're scouting in order to know what's up with your scout 3. Why is it such an issue anyway? Both players have incomplete knowledge, it's not a one way street. I really don't understand why this is an issue anyway. What does it actually gain you when knowing the exact terrain set? Are you going to cheese the first (few) time(s) you're playing the game without scouting? As a previous poster said: lost game because he didn't know exactly where the minerals were (but don't you check up on your unit you want to harass with?). Sure, certain stuff of the game will be demanding (like harassing at a semi-safe part of the map and guiding the harasser there + fending off an attack + macro), but that's the brutal nature of the game: you need to fully rely on yourself in order to win. | ||
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Gorgonoth
United States468 Posts
I also totally agree with starecat, seeing the minimap is a visual aid that keeps people thinking about hidden expansions and whatnot. Also placing buildings in places you can't see is actually quite a big deal. I would not want these things go away, because removing skils is one of the primary reasons I dislike SC2 in comparison with BW. | ||
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Connor56201
25 Posts
and plus with sc:r you get a few of the map before the game starts both in ranked and in melee. its not a lot of time but you should be able to pick out something by looking at it for a few seconds especially if it lags for a few more seconds | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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10dla
127 Posts
On May 21 2018 08:23 Gorgonoth wrote: How is extremely intimate map memorization not a skill? This is the dictionary definition of skill: The ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance If player A knows Fighting Spirit so well that he basically has a map in his head without even having to look at the minimap, down to the trees and small doo-dads, then he has a skill. Removing the black fog of war means that it is easier for people to memorize maps and think about bases their opponents has. I'm not saying that knowing a map is a crucial or even really impressive skill, but to blanketly say it isn't a skill is preposterous. I also totally agree with starecat, seeing the minimap is a visual aid that keeps people thinking about hidden expansions and whatnot. Also placing buildings in places you can't see is actually quite a big deal. I would not want these things go away, because removing skils is one of the primary reasons I dislike SC2 in comparison with BW. What exactly is your plan against the third party minimap? And what kind of 100% accuracy pinpoint clicks are you talking about? Cant you adjust commands? Pretty sure high level player have that kind of apm On May 21 2018 08:29 Twinkle Toes wrote: FOW is part of the strategic element of the game No its not, you can easily circumvent it On May 21 2018 08:28 Connor56201 wrote: people want everything handed to them on a silver platter these days people want everything so damn easy all the time and plus with sc:r you get a few of the map before the game starts both in ranked and in melee. its not a lot of time but you should be able to pick out something by looking at it for a few seconds especially if it lags for a few more seconds What do people get on a silver plate? What do you got from being so incredible oldschool? | ||
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