EPTMy take on Fog of War - Page 4
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Levque
88 Posts
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10dla
127 Posts
On May 22 2018 06:58 Levque wrote: Stop trying to make BW easier. Why do people make it as easy as it gets by playing simply 1 map only? | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4819 Posts
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Highgamer
1412 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/SbQ3H05.jpg) User was warned for this post | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On May 22 2018 06:57 The_Red_Viper wrote: The threshold for complaining in modern games is zero? In any case, who cares? This standard your referring to, universally, are rts games that failed where broodwar did not. Why should we want the mediocrity of a failed standard?Then pls tell me why it's the new standard to have it transparent? Apparently developers agree in general that it's "better" that way. Also if you don't think there is a difference one way or another surely nothing speaks against changing it True, and the reality is, the mini map wont actually change, i think we both know this. i like to argue. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden524 Posts
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[AS]Rattus
427 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 22 2018 08:06 Dazed. wrote: The threshold for complaining in modern games is zero? In any case, who cares? This standard your referring to, universally, are rts games that failed where broodwar did not. Why should we want the mediocrity of a failed standard? True, and the reality is, the mini map wont actually change, i think we both know this. i like to argue. OR one form to show a minimap is considered "better design". That's really all there is to this question. Will a blacked out minimap have any positive value to the game compared to a transparent one. The answer is no, it doesn't really. You find the same in mobas as well, hardly a fail (not that your argument was any good, you cannot say that every single feature of a "failed product" is automatically bad) It probably won't change, but you never know. There are custom hotkeys, there is a higher resolution which adds more information on the screen, there are changes which didn't impact the game in a bad way, just quality of life and "better design". Blizzard thankfully finds the balance here so far. | ||
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neatpete
48 Posts
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
What do you guys think? | ||
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lestye
United States4178 Posts
On May 22 2018 08:14 [AS]Rattus wrote: im not sayin its the only reason but greyed out minimap instead of a complete dark one pretty much killed the rts genre nowadays. :> Damn Warcraft III! | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
a) yet another hurdle for newcomers to overcome b) encourages every non-pro to keep playing FS instead of literally any other map c) unfair advantage to anyone with a second monitor on the map | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Ty2
United States1434 Posts
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Dantak
Czech Republic648 Posts
But by all means, keep it pure. And dead. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On May 22 2018 15:20 Ty2 wrote: I really like having no black fog of war because I like to location hotkey my expos. Normally I'd have to memorize spatially the map to get that natural base location hotkey just right. I know some people are going to make the appeal to tradition argument, but really it's just an arbitrary constraint that has little bearing on what makes bw bw. Edit: The biggest change i can think of that acts as a precedent, and most definitely surpasses a QoL feature is custom hotkeys. People were loathing they'd bring harm to competitive BW, but we're a year in and, surprise, nothing has happened. Are ASL pros allowed to change their hotkeys? Cuz that's awesome if they can. One thing is for sure, removing black fog of war would make bring in many more newcomers and casuals. Couple this with better chat channels and 2v2 matchmaking, it would be one sick patch for the future of BW. But like I said, if the pros in ASL want to keep the black fog for tournaments, let them have the option to do so when creating games. it's a win-win for both sides then. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
On May 22 2018 05:03 Uldridge wrote: I get it, you never watched any foreign competitive games on new maps, or you'd know exactly how easily a scout can and up sent to the wrong spot on the map. Why is it so hard to understand that players are called players because they just want to play, not do in-depth studies of maps beforehand?How is that bad per se? Again, this only matters if your opponent is a master of the map. Again, how do you get lost with your scout in the early stages of the game, for real? Deducing potential spawning locations and checking up on your scout in the early game is not difficult. Let's be honest here. What is a few seconds going to make a difference in a low level game? You're making it seem like your scouts are getting stuck or are like WAY off the base you need to check. It's not going to matter in the long run when you have to readjust losing a few moments. Also you won't have the star sense anyway to see anything's off if the guy is going for an early type of rush (unless it's like a 4 pool or a proxies or something). My point is that you'd have to be extremely unlucky to face off every single time against someone who has intricate map knowledge of the map you're playing. This means that most of the time you'll be mostly at a slight disadvantage if you haven't played the map 3+ times. Also, what keeps you from looking at the map before or between games to look at what's possible? I feel like you're blowing this way out of proportion. How many times will players improvise/adapt their strategies at lower levels? This is because of the FoW? Or are there other factors at play? People tend to go in the game of doing x and potentially modifying it in reaction to what the other player is doing. Is it actually that hard to prep on a certain, study it a little bit before you go into a game on it? Do you actually think you're going to be able to pull off crazy stuff the first (few) time(s) you play on a map with soft FoW? But the vision doesn't stay black dude. I don't get it. I guess I just don't understand your plea for soft FOW. For me personally, it doesn't matter. I don't want to intricately look at their base while I'm macro'ing to suddenly understand that "HA, I can put a Vulture on the high ground to kill his economy with!" Like I said. It's blown up way too much and it probably wouldn't matter that much anyway if it was acquired, so why would you want it? The appeal of true FoW is that your map is what you've explored and keep using, not the entire map. Why do you think I personally care? I am a map maker, detailed map knowledge is definitely not a point where my game falls apart. I also clearly stated it should be an option, because many players demand it, not mandatory. Again you say it probably wouldn't matter much, but you are the one who seems adamantly opposed to it anyway. And as has already been pointed out, in part the change already has occurred (see ASL observer mode).The only argument you really have, imo, is exactly the one I have: preference. You prefer to play on non-true FoW, while I don't (care). This isn't merit for any changes to occur. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2748 Posts
Second, this is not a major QoL thing that will make the game significantly easier for anyone, or draw in anyone who is now appaled by the harsness of broodwar. It is such a small nuicanse I can't even think of any feature that would compare to it in futility. Third, it's not just about remembering the map layout. When you play on a new map you should actually go in there and try out building placements too. Do you want an imprint on the map where you should build your rax/supplys for walls on each spawning point? (I have one for hunters, its great!) The same for pylon/forge/gateway walls? Do you want a blueprint of the simcity of your race? So all you have to do is fill in the coloring picture? Maybe put in small numbers to correspond with the supply or order you have to build them in? Do you want a couple of arrows that show what locations are in range of siegetanks or psionic storm? Maybe a pulsating purple pedestal to tell you where you should perform your drops? All this is knowledge you should build up for each new map. Adding your petty fog of war idea simply moves the wall one step further away. So new people bash there heads against it one step later. The fact that you have to send your scvs to the minerals, that's the thing that's hard for new people. True story. | ||
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