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On January 31 2018 06:00 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2018 03:37 flametitanrose wrote:
Oh yeah! I forgot about Atlantis. That one I also see as pretty fun.
That said I'm not sure if datedness really applies, considering the maps the ASL has currently used. FS is an '09 map, Gladiator's a '10 map and Tau cross is from 2006, but all three were used in the ASL4 (though Tau Cross was only a preliminary map)
EDIT: Unless you mean Dated as in they still have some pathing/height bugs from not being made on the new SCMdraft ''atlantis that one i also see as pretty ''fun'' '' LMAO i just took 1 look at atlantis an i had to sream that is one disgusting map to play on it would be static dead gameplay EVERY SINGLE GAME atlantis horror: + Show Spoiler + Maybe you should have taken a second look, just to make sure it's actually Atlantis you are referring to and not Venezia. Atlantis is explicitly made to fix the glaring imbalances of Venezia…
On January 31 2018 06:16 ShloobeR wrote:I Believe 선기도 ("Sunny" Sung-gi's Island) refers to unfair islands or pushing positions for terran tanks (for example islands Which are too small to drop units on once the terran lands a tank there). From games played on older versions of Luna. edit: don't know to tlpd-ize sunny  but it's the terran from ages ago Yes, it's what we (foreign map makers) call drop holes: Spots where harassing units can be dropped but shouldn't be able to.
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Yes it is sung-gi islands which is tank-holes. It was a prerequisite last ASL map submission
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On January 31 2018 06:00 onlystar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2018 03:37 flametitanrose wrote:
Oh yeah! I forgot about Atlantis. That one I also see as pretty fun.
That said I'm not sure if datedness really applies, considering the maps the ASL has currently used. FS is an '09 map, Gladiator's a '10 map and Tau cross is from 2006, but all three were used in the ASL4 (though Tau Cross was only a preliminary map)
EDIT: Unless you mean Dated as in they still have some pathing/height bugs from not being made on the new SCMdraft ''atlantis that one i also see as pretty ''fun'' '' LMAO i just took 1 look at atlantis an i had to sream that is one disgusting map to play on it would be static dead gameplay EVERY SINGLE GAME atlantis horror: + Show Spoiler +
That post is embarassing. But not for me, who made the first version of this map in 2009 i think
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On January 31 2018 07:21 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2018 06:06 onlystar wrote:
a strong reminder to people that think maps that look weird or exotic seem like ''fun''
those maps are almost always trouble unable to to get close to a decent imbalanced map
hey are just flat out imbalanced and have so many big balancing issues each game end up mostly in the same fashion because 1 race / or build is abusing 1 flaw of the map INTO GG]
that is not fun my friends maybe if u like to see big upsets and see the favourites cheesed out of tournaments but no deff not fun at all I disagree. Strange maps have a place in BW. Not as longstay classics but for one tournament. It was always exciting to see which team or player could best adapt to strange new maps and find the most abusive strategies on it in a short period of time. It's sadly a skill that has almost completely disappeared in post kespa days.
and it disappeared for many reasons
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People want strange maps, though. Take the ASL4 map selection, for example. Super standard 4p macro map Salamander did lousy in the public vote. Then they added Gold Rush in the last minute, a highly nonstandard map, and balance-wise it held up pretty well, a lot better than I had initially expected in fact, over the course of the tournament.
In the face of the dreaded perceived TvZ imbalance, for example, nonstandard elements in maps can definitely help solve that.
All depends on what you would consider "strange", though, or how many "strange" elements make a map as a whole "strange". There is a wide margin between using some eggs to block a critical pathway and Plasma, for example.
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About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective)
- narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg
- any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider.
- terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg
That is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted.
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nah gold rush sux,each time i made a 9p and sent lings to oponents base they went to assimilators..
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about frog star if you remove the minerals from that vortex i thknk the problem will be fixed?
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On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote:About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg- any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpgThat is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted.
I think in addition to all that a map must also be somewhat intuitive for the viewer. This may be why many maps are the same. I think a lot of people only watch Starcraft, so unlike in the past it is hard to present a complicated map to a wider audience, because they might not understand what's going on game-wise when they have to memorize a complicated map. Just something to keep an eye on i think. Doesn't mean there can't be maps with unorthodox elements!
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On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote:About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg- any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpgThat is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted.
those center ridges are actually ramps - there's nothing forcing units to take an unusually long path there.
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On January 31 2018 19:17 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote:About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg- any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpgThat is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted. those center ridges are actually ramps - there's nothing forcing units to take an unusually long path there.
Oh right, wasn't able to tell on the picutre.
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freakling is there version of frog without the black minimap ? i will explore it tonight on stream hosting obs games.
also im curious why didnt u add 8 minerals patches to the mineral only ?
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On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote:About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg Not sure what you mean. The only tight chokes there belong to expansions, which need those tight chokes to be more defensible, and are not where main armies have to move through to get from any points A to B on the map.
- any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg
Or look at maps like Ground Zero or Circuit Breakers, which employ huge chunks of "go-around-terrain" to avoid this very issue. In comparison, I put no major obstacles in players' way on Eddy, and rushing distance is one of the concerns that have been brought up for that map (even though naturals are spaced out far as reasonably possible).
On January 31 2018 19:17 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote:About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg- any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpgThat is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted. those center ridges are actually ramps - there's nothing forcing units to take an unusually long path there.
Just to make sure we are on the same page, here is how pathfinding on Frogstar actually works:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Bcaf3l1.gif)
So you don't have to follow the vortex, in fact you are not supposed to and should not. The only thing that can happen is that units try to walk through one of the passages bocked by the central expansion mineral lines, but they are laid out in a way that units don't get stuck but find a way around on their own (except maybe in some very detrimental circumstances where you try to send armies directly from the middle to one of those expansions or from a middle expansion to a direct cross map position).
On January 31 2018 20:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
freakling is there version of frog without the black minimap ? i will explore it tonight on stream hosting obs games.
Here's an extensive map pack, containing observer version with various levels of map revelation (there's a readme included for details).
also im curious why didnt u add 8 minerals path to the mineral only ? You think it should have 8 patches? Adapting resource amounts is a quick and simple change, though. Should it be 8 full patches or more like 8x1000, as it is usually done on maps like e.g. Aztec?
Looking forward to your feedback :D
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Say hello to Uprising!
My very first map ever made, in either Starcraft 1 or 2!
I went in to this map blind, without having any experience making maps in any game, not really knowing how to work the scmdraft program (and I'm absolutely positive that there are still MANY MANY MANY things that I have yet to learn), but I think that for my first ever map, this one came out okay.
I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, but I am planning to enter it in this contest. Let me know what you guys think!!
Edit: The image doesn't seem to be loading. Here's the imgur link: https://imgur.com/a/8DvuH
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it would be so cool if a TLer or any foreigner got a map into the ASL. and had JD and flash play on it. that would surely be a mapmaker's dream.
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been honest.. One of my favorite maps I've made to enter this contest is this one, I've been working on it really hard.. although I am still working on the second one, which still hasn't had any major changes, just rough sketches for now, buuut making high progress too, although admittedly Freakling, Crystaldrag, JungleTerrain and any other bwmn map maker, are way better map makers than one that just begun a year or so ago to make maps, but hopefully it is good enough to been noticed  .
Any Feedback is Highly appreciated
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4877
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4877.jpg)
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On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote:About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg- any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpgThat is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted.
I love this map, so it is very nice for Terran that my race ^^!. 3 resources are in the mid map, they will be control by the tanks.
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Not Necessarily Bovi... because each place looks defensible but actually are ramps... meaning you can get flanked anyway you wish.
another related note to this post.... DO they take into account different time zones... or we must adapt to the time zone it is used there??
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someone keep qikz away from this thread
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On February 01 2018 01:58 Rickv100491 wrote:
Not Necessarily Bovi... because each place looks defensible but actually are ramps... meaning you can get flanked anyway you wish.
another related note to this post.... DO they take into account different time zones... or we must adapt to the time zone it is used there??
What are you even talking about?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Venezia.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/8DvuH)
