EPTASL5 Map Submissions Request - Page 7
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On February 13 2018 09:01 Ikirouta wrote: Okay, I did more testing and it seems that the shape of the crystal sprite is causing this issue. Easiest fix would be to swap it for a sprite that has a symmetric shape. Look at collision boxes, assimilators extractora and refineries are different. This is probably what causes the difference. And see if they were placed off grid or not (very fine-fine) What is the intended interaction that Waldstein was looking for here anyway? A gas for Zerg only? Seems glitchy based on your tests | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10131 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4980 Posts
I have always felt cheated because when I finally found out there was a BW proscene, island maps weren't ever played anymore. If island maps can ever make a comeback, I'm sure Flash's brain is going to do some overtime once more. *fingers crossed* + Show Spoiler + Haters don't you dare quoting me! Edit: Unfortunately this mappool doesn't even look close to good enough to finally exile FS :\ | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
New non-standard maps can do two things as I see it. -novelty factor (can increase audience interest => viewership) -possible skewing of racial balance (to help struggling zergs, protoss, terran, etc.). | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
Anyway, just from some quick glances: (3)Transistor: Clone of an old SC2 concept. We have plenty of maps of that kind on BWMN (Jungle's (3)Miss You for example) and my argument has always been that they'd basically be impossible to balance for BW meta, because of the backdoor, the impossibility to set up proper FEs/defenses and the very linear nature of between base pathing resulting from this type of layout. (2)Bulkeunsiwol (or something like that): Another highly problematic backdoor, Can't see details on the picture, though. (2)Circulator: Basically a Chain Reaction clone, but with changed terrain profile with standard high ground main/low ground nat. So overall pretty legitimate concept. (4)Sunburst: Way too basic 4 player layout with another backdoor thrown in to make it more interesting. I need to look at it in editor to see if the backdoor is at all secured against early runbys (EDIT: They aren't, so good luck in PvZ…). Either way, I think there is already too much thrown in in terms of obstrucive terrain (look at those overly long nat chokes, for example), just to make those backdoors somewhat work. for my taste. (4)Sparkle: The layout is absolutely cookie cutter, but I guess the fact that they are considering an island map at all and that a reasonable attempt was made to balance it for Zerg with the help of modernized map mechanics makes it an interesting option. EDIT: There's also a lot of creep for building Nydus Canals around the map, which is nice. Take note, Blizzard: This is why we need creep spawners back! (3)Syliphide: Solid 3 player map. Not my personal favourite of LatiAs', but his maps are generally exceptionally well made and I have studied it in detail before, so at the very least I know I won't have to write any extensive bug report on this one once I've studied them in the editor and done some in-game testing. Some quick runthrough of basic bug checking (I'll keep this list updated as best I can ; serious bugs with strong/likely impact on balance and gameplay will be in red, blue marks bugs which pose a serious problem, but need not be addressed right away, as they pertain to pathfinding and fixing some of the other bugs listed might solve the problam as a by-effect, suggestions for fixes will be in green): (3)Transistor (as of v.0.94):
(2)Bulkeunsiwol (Red October) (as of v.0.92):
(2)Circulator (as of v.0.92):
(4)Sunburst (as of v.0.91):
(4)Sparkle (as of v.0.96):
(3)Syliphide (as of v.1.5):
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TT1
Canada10004 Posts
That said, 1 balance issue on Syliphide is that Protoss doesn't have a good 3rd to take if they spawn at ~8 vs a ~5 oclock T. The regular 3rd (on the grass tileset) is too easy to push (short rush distance to T's nat and the ramp isn't positioned well) and the only other option is a mineral only base with a lot of harass potential, so imo that expo (grassy 3rd with gas) needs to be re-assessed. Every other position is fine tho. | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Stork is checking out the maps if anyone wants to check the maps in motion EDIT LatiAs is also there in the chat! | ||
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TT1
Canada10004 Posts
On February 13 2018 20:36 Superouman wrote: Looks like the theme of this map pack is "Path behind the main" Gives more angles to harass with mutas vs T (you can now harass behind the mineral line with an escape route), T's cant cut off an entire zone with 3-4 turrets like they can on regular maps. They're forced to make more turrets, gives Z more harass potential. Well that's the main thing i took away from it. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On February 01 2018 02:39 atrox_ wrote: someone keep qikz away from this thread lol why? | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
[*]For the potential issues with the Kaydarin geysers I need some in-game investigation first, but to address something suggested above: For geysers that are permanently mineable only by Zerg, Kaydarin Crystals are the only option, because they are the only building unit with invincibility hard-coded into their unit properties (you can make other buildings invincible, but for that you need to use triggers or place them as units, both of which are not compatible with melee maps). this is untrue, you can glitch workers to permanently mine as terran and protoss in some positions. I tested it, has to be fixed. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
On February 13 2018 22:04 Ikirouta wrote: this is untrue, you can glitch workers to permanently mine as terran and protoss in some positions. I tested it, has to be fixed. As I said, I need to investigate that in-game. No idea why that would work, but if it does, then it does of course constitute a significant (map-breaking) problem. The point is that in that case there'd be no easy fix (probably none at all). As a starting point: Can you give some detailed explanation as to what you did to force workers to auto-mine and in what positions it does/doesn't work? | ||
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LatiAs
27 Posts
On February 13 2018 19:46 Freakling wrote: If I'd known they're looking for completely crazy this time, I'd have send them Incidicence or something… Anyway, just from some quick glances: (3)Transistor: Clone of an old SC2 concept. We have plenty of maps of that kind on BWMN (Jungle's (3)Miss You for example) and my argument has always been that they'd basically be impossible to balance for BW meta, because of the backdoor, the impossibility to set up proper FEs/defenses and the very linear nature of between base pathing resulting from this type of layout. (2)Bulkeunsiwol (or something like that): Another highly problematic backdoor, Can't see details on the picture, though. (2)Circulator: Basically a Chain Reaction clone, but with changed terrain profile with standard high ground main/low ground nat. So overall pretty legitimate concept. (4)Sunburst: Way too basic 4 player layout with another backdoor thrown in to make it more interesting. I need to look at it in editor to see if the backdoor is at al secured against early runbys. Either way, I think there is already too much thrown in in terms of obstrucive terrain (look at those overly long nat chokes, for example), just to make those backdoors somewhat work. for my taste. (4)Sparkle: The layout is absolutely cookie cutter, but I guess the fact that they are considering an island map at all and that a reasonable attempt was made to balance it for Zerg with the help of modernized map mechanics makes it an interesting option. (3)Syliphide: Solid 3 player map. Not my personal favourite of LatiAs', but his maps are generally exceptionally well made and I have studied it in detail before, so at the very least I know I won't have to write any extensive bug report on this one once I've studied them in the editor and done some in-game testing. Some quick runthrough of basic bug checking: (3)Transistor:
(2)Bulkeunsiwol:
(2)Circulator:
(4)Sunburst:
(4)Sparkle:
(3)Syliphide:
Thx for review, and It's 'Sylphide', not Syliphide. btw, what is 'Ultra-Voltex bug'? | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
On February 13 2018 22:14 LatiAs wrote: Sorry for the misspelling/misreading. Could you explain the map name? I actually have no idea what it refers to. (EDIT: Actually, seems like the English wikipedia just can't keep up with, for example, the French or German ones + Show Spoiler + On February 13 2018 19:46 Freakling wrote: If I'd known they're looking for completely crazy this time, I'd have send them Incidicence or something… Anyway, just from some quick glances: (3)Transistor: Clone of an old SC2 concept. We have plenty of maps of that kind on BWMN (Jungle's (3)Miss You for example) and my argument has always been that they'd basically be impossible to balance for BW meta, because of the backdoor, the impossibility to set up proper FEs/defenses and the very linear nature of between base pathing resulting from this type of layout. (2)Bulkeunsiwol (or something like that): Another highly problematic backdoor, Can't see details on the picture, though. (2)Circulator: Basically a Chain Reaction clone, but with changed terrain profile with standard high ground main/low ground nat. So overall pretty legitimate concept. (4)Sunburst: Way too basic 4 player layout with another backdoor thrown in to make it more interesting. I need to look at it in editor to see if the backdoor is at al secured against early runbys. Either way, I think there is already too much thrown in in terms of obstrucive terrain (look at those overly long nat chokes, for example), just to make those backdoors somewhat work. for my taste. (4)Sparkle: The layout is absolutely cookie cutter, but I guess the fact that they are considering an island map at all and that a reasonable attempt was made to balance it for Zerg with the help of modernized map mechanics makes it an interesting option. (3)Syliphide: Solid 3 player map. Not my personal favourite of LatiAs', but his maps are generally exceptionally well made and I have studied it in detail before, so at the very least I know I won't have to write any extensive bug report on this one once I've studied them in the editor and done some in-game testing. Some quick runthrough of basic bug checking: (3)Transistor:
(2)Bulkeunsiwol:
(2)Circulator:
(4)Sunburst:
(4)Sparkle:
(3)Syliphide:
Thx for review, and It's 'Sylphide', not Syliphide. btw, what is 'Ultra-Voltex bug'?  )An Ultra-vortex bug is a vortex bug (units getting stacked and stuck on terrain, like on Demon's Forest or top ramp on FS) where only Ultralisks can get stuck. The cause is a pathfinding node too close to unwalkable terrain (if its unwalkable terrain on the same tile, its a normal vortex bug, where most units can get stuck, if its unwalkable terrain on a tile adjacent to the left or right, it only affects Ultra, due to their wide collision box). Could you translate/forward my bugs to the other map makers/organizers? EDIT: Why do I get "HTTPS access is only available to TL Staff. Please use www.teamliquid.net." whenever I try to post something? | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
On February 13 2018 22:12 Freakling wrote: As I said, I need to investigate that in-game. No idea why that would work, but if it does, then it does of course constitute a significant (map-breaking) problem. The point is that in that case there'd be no easy fix (probably none at all). As a starting point: Can you give some detailed explanation as to what you did to force workers to auto-mine and in what positions it does/doesn't work? I posted pictures earlier in this thread. You block sides of the gas with buildings (preferably turrets or pylons). Gather up a clump of workers by clicking on the gas, block unbuildable areas around the gas with other units, select your stack of workers, click over the gas so they glitch in (like mineralwalking) and spam glick gather on the gas. Usually it would take 2-3 tries for me to get a worker in. In order for the worker to return to the gas once its out, you have to place 2 units on hold position on path it uses to return the gas to a cc/nexus. It takes a lot of effort, so thats why I am wondering if its worth at all. As I mentioned earlier in this thread " It is doable in topleft and topright, however bottom right its really hard and bottomleft nearly impossible.". For some reason, if the gas is positioned so that the workers have to face right to return the minerals, you don't need to block the left side of the gas with other workers to glitch them in. I have no idea why. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/kZ1UFzp.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/g58fNxl.png) | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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