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Jukado
805 Posts
------------------------------------------------------------------ Thankyou K.H.J for this information. Originally posted on tl here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/525290-information-from-korea?page=77#1526 ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/9MiMR3s.jpg) It seems Afreeca are looking for maps for season 5. This thread is to provide somewhere to organise for this. Translations and tips to help us out would be excellent. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/11de96ff066616e729f929731c3120ad.png) Credit goes to Christian Bale. | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
Edit: Faust beat me to it. Thanks. But damn that is short notice | ||
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Icarus2
China109 Posts
Hype  | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2031 Posts
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
And a submission limit of 2 is really meh. What kind of map are they actually looking for? Any suggestions what I should submit? When in doubt, I'd probably go with Reap the Storm and Frogstar World B, as these are the two newest ones I already have completely finished. 3. : Probably either drop holes or vortex bugs… Or terrain level bugs, but I doubt they have wised up to these ones yet. Why isn't there a link to the original post? | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On January 31 2018 02:00 Freakling wrote: Well, too short notice basically, so if they need updates they can probably stick it up somewhere because I definitely don't have time for that till mid March… And a submission limit of 2 is really meh. What kind of map are they actually looking for? Any suggestions what I should submit? When in doubt, I'd probably go with Reap the Storm and Frogstar World B, as these are the two newest ones I already have completely finished. 3. : Probably either drop holes or vortex bugs… Or terrain level bugs, but I doubt they have wised up to these ones yet. Why isn't there a link to the original post? Personally, I think Frogstar B looks like it'd have the more interesting tactical game with the vision blockers and the way the ramps break up army flow. Other maps of yours I enjoyed were Melting Pot and Hazard Black. EDIT: Oh, and Cross G looks like it favours a positional game that might break up large balls of army, compared to something like Circuit Breakers. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2031 Posts
On January 31 2018 02:00 Freakling wrote: Well, too short notice basically, so if they need updates they can probably stick it up somewhere because I definitely don't have time for that till mid March… And a submission limit of 2 is really meh. What kind of map are they actually looking for? Any suggestions what I should submit? When in doubt, I'd probably go with Reap the Storm and Frogstar World B, as these are the two newest ones I already have completely finished. 3. : Probably either drop holes or vortex bugs… Or terrain level bugs, but I doubt they have wised up to these ones yet. Why isn't there a link to the original post? Give us more options and we will help you choose something. :-) I can also comment more from a player perspective.. From these two I don't think Fogstar World B can make it - even though I like the concept I don't think it has a chance. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On January 31 2018 02:30 flametitanrose wrote: Personally, I think Frogstar B looks like it'd have the more interesting tactical game with the vision blockers and the way the ramps break up army flow. Other maps of yours I enjoyed were Melting Pot and Hazard Black. EDIT: Oh, and Cross G looks like it favours a positional game that might break up large balls of army, compared to something like Circuit Breakers. Cross Game (by CrystalDrag) and Melting Pot (community effort, and somewhat outdated, I think) are not even my own maps, I only updated them… On January 31 2018 02:53 kogeT wrote: More options… (sorry, don't have time to compose big comprehensive posts with pictures…). A bit of a shortlist: Inner Coven, Oxide, Reap the Storm, Atlantis, Hazard Black, Eddy, Beehive, Frogstar, Flight Path. – Everything else I consider either too outdated, unfinished or too desperately in need of extensive updates to be viable right now.Give us more options and we will help you choose something. :-) I can also comment more from a player perspective.. From these two I don't think Fogstar World B can make it - even though I like the concept I don't think it has a chance. Some player perspective is exactly what I am looking for. What problems do you see with Frogstar? | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
That said I'm not sure if datedness really applies, considering the maps the ASL has currently used. FS is an '09 map, Gladiator's a '10 map and Tau cross is from 2006, but all three were used in the ASL4 (though Tau Cross was only a preliminary map) EDIT: Unless you mean Dated as in they still have some pathing/height bugs from not being made on the new SCMdraft | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On January 31 2018 03:37 flametitanrose wrote: Oh yeah! I forgot about Atlantis. That one I also see as pretty fun. That said I'm not sure if datedness really applies, considering the maps the ASL has currently used. FS is an '09 map, Gladiator's a '10 map and Tau cross is from 2006, but all three were used in the ASL4 (though Tau Cross was only a preliminary map) EDIT: Unless you mean Dated as in they still have some pathing/height bugs from not being made on the new SCMdraft ''atlantis that one i also see as pretty ''fun'' ''LMAO i just took 1 look at atlantis an i had to sream that is one disgusting map to play on it would be static dead gameplay EVERY SINGLE GAME atlantis horror: ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Venezia.jpg) | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
those maps are almost always trouble unable to to get close to a decent imbalanced map hey are just flat out imbalanced and have so many big balancing issues each game end up mostly in the same fashion because 1 race / or build is abusing 1 flaw of the map INTO GG] that is not fun my friends maybe if u like to see big upsets and see the favourites cheesed out of tournaments but no deff not fun at all | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
edit: don't know to tlpd-ize sunny  but it's the terran from ages ago | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2544 Posts
On January 31 2018 02:00 Freakling wrote: Well, too short notice basically, so if they need updates they can probably stick it up somewhere because I definitely don't have time for that till mid March… And a submission limit of 2 is really meh. What kind of map are they actually looking for? Any suggestions what I should submit? When in doubt, I'd probably go with Reap the Storm and Frogstar World B, as these are the two newest ones I already have completely finished. 3. : Probably either drop holes or vortex bugs… Or terrain level bugs, but I doubt they have wised up to these ones yet. Why isn't there a link to the original post? I love 3 players maps, I sure hope one of these would go in! | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1903 Posts
On January 31 2018 06:06 onlystar wrote: a strong reminder to people that think maps that look weird or exotic seem like ''fun'' those maps are almost always trouble unable to to get close to a decent imbalanced map hey are just flat out imbalanced and have so many big balancing issues each game end up mostly in the same fashion because 1 race / or build is abusing 1 flaw of the map INTO GG] that is not fun my friends maybe if u like to see big upsets and see the favourites cheesed out of tournaments but no deff not fun at all I disagree. Strange maps have a place in BW. Not as longstay classics but for one tournament. It was always exciting to see which team or player could best adapt to strange new maps and find the most abusive strategies on it in a short period of time. It's sadly a skill that has almost completely disappeared in post kespa days. | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On January 31 2018 06:00 onlystar wrote: ''atlantis that one i also see as pretty ''fun'' ''LMAO i just took 1 look at atlantis an i had to sream that is one disgusting map to play on it would be static dead gameplay EVERY SINGLE GAME atlantis horror: That's... an old version of Atlantis. This is the current version ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4663.jpg) | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On January 31 2018 06:00 onlystar wrote: Maybe you should have taken a second look, just to make sure it's actually Atlantis you are referring to and not Venezia. Atlantis is explicitly made to fix the glaring imbalances of Venezia…''atlantis that one i also see as pretty ''fun'' ''LMAO i just took 1 look at atlantis an i had to sream that is one disgusting map to play on it would be static dead gameplay EVERY SINGLE GAME atlantis horror: + Show Spoiler + On January 31 2018 06:16 ShloobeR wrote: Yes, it's what we (foreign map makers) call drop holes: Spots where harassing units can be dropped but shouldn't be able to.I Believe 선기도 ("Sunny" Sung-gi's Island) refers to unfair islands or pushing positions for terran tanks (for example islands Which are too small to drop units on once the terran lands a tank there). From games played on older versions of Luna. edit: don't know to tlpd-ize sunny but it's the terran from ages ago | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
On January 31 2018 06:00 onlystar wrote: ''atlantis that one i also see as pretty ''fun'' ''LMAO i just took 1 look at atlantis an i had to sream that is one disgusting map to play on it would be static dead gameplay EVERY SINGLE GAME atlantis horror: + Show Spoiler + That post is embarassing. But not for me, who made the first version of this map in 2009 i think | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On January 31 2018 07:21 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: I disagree. Strange maps have a place in BW. Not as longstay classics but for one tournament. It was always exciting to see which team or player could best adapt to strange new maps and find the most abusive strategies on it in a short period of time. It's sadly a skill that has almost completely disappeared in post kespa days. and it disappeared for many reasons | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
In the face of the dreaded perceived TvZ imbalance, for example, nonstandard elements in maps can definitely help solve that. All depends on what you would consider "strange", though, or how many "strange" elements make a map as a whole "strange". There is a wide margin between using some eggs to block a critical pathway and Plasma, for example. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2031 Posts
- narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg - any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg That is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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CoL_DarkstaR
Germany649 Posts
On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote: About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg - any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg That is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted. I think in addition to all that a map must also be somewhat intuitive for the viewer. This may be why many maps are the same. I think a lot of people only watch Starcraft, so unlike in the past it is hard to present a complicated map to a wider audience, because they might not understand what's going on game-wise when they have to memorize a complicated map. Just something to keep an eye on i think. Doesn't mean there can't be maps with unorthodox elements! | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote: About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg - any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg That is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted. those center ridges are actually ramps - there's nothing forcing units to take an unusually long path there. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2031 Posts
On January 31 2018 19:17 -NegativeZero- wrote: those center ridges are actually ramps - there's nothing forcing units to take an unusually long path there. Oh right, wasn't able to tell on the picutre. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
also im curious why didnt u add 8 minerals patches to the mineral only ? | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote: Not sure what you mean. The only tight chokes there belong to expansions, which need those tight chokes to be more defensible, and are not where main armies have to move through to get from any points A to B on the map.About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg - any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg Or look at maps like Ground Zero or Circuit Breakers, which employ huge chunks of "go-around-terrain" to avoid this very issue. In comparison, I put no major obstacles in players' way on Eddy, and rushing distance is one of the concerns that have been brought up for that map (even though naturals are spaced out far as reasonably possible). On January 31 2018 19:17 -NegativeZero- wrote: those center ridges are actually ramps - there's nothing forcing units to take an unusually long path there. Just to make sure we are on the same page, here is how pathfinding on Frogstar actually works: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Bcaf3l1.gif) So you don't have to follow the vortex, in fact you are not supposed to and should not. The only thing that can happen is that units try to walk through one of the passages bocked by the central expansion mineral lines, but they are laid out in a way that units don't get stuck but find a way around on their own (except maybe in some very detrimental circumstances where you try to send armies directly from the middle to one of those expansions or from a middle expansion to a direct cross map position). On January 31 2018 20:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: freakling is there version of frog without the black minimap ? i will explore it tonight on stream hosting obs games. Here's an extensive map pack, containing observer version with various levels of map revelation (there's a readme included for details). also im curious why didnt u add 8 minerals path to the mineral only ? You think it should have 8 patches? Adapting resource amounts is a quick and simple change, though. Should it be 8 full patches or more like 8x1000, as it is usually done on maps like e.g. Aztec?Looking forward to your feedback :D | ||
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MMA_fan_
United States35 Posts
![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/8DvuH) Say hello to Uprising! My very first map ever made, in either Starcraft 1 or 2! I went in to this map blind, without having any experience making maps in any game, not really knowing how to work the scmdraft program (and I'm absolutely positive that there are still MANY MANY MANY things that I have yet to learn), but I think that for my first ever map, this one came out okay. I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, but I am planning to enter it in this contest. Let me know what you guys think!! Edit: The image doesn't seem to be loading. Here's the imgur link: https://imgur.com/a/8DvuH | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
.Any Feedback is Highly appreciated http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4877 ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4877.jpg) | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On January 31 2018 18:28 kogeT wrote: About strange maps, what really has to be avoided (from a player perspective) - narrow passages where units will bug (ramp is a special case, i'm more about locations around the 1, 4, 9 on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg - any kind of pathing issues (any kind of pathing issues should be minimzed and only happen in some werid unsual angles). I must say that a map like Gold Rush has been extremly well done, it was very easy to send units through midel and also paths around the map. Same goes for outsider. - terrains that will artiifically extend distances, e.g anything that will make a unit go "around", or in a "cirlce" etc. (something like this mid on http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg That is why despite the above map is interesting, I don't think it will be accepted. I love this map, so it is very nice for Terran that my race ^^!. 3 resources are in the mid map, they will be control by the tanks. | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
another related note to this post.... DO they take into account different time zones... or we must adapt to the time zone it is used there?? | ||
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atrox_
United Kingdom1710 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On February 01 2018 01:58 Rickv100491 wrote: Not Necessarily Bovi... because each place looks defensible but actually are ramps... meaning you can get flanked anyway you wish. another related note to this post.... DO they take into account different time zones... or we must adapt to the time zone it is used there?? What are you even talking about? | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
 Uzi Sara barely didn't make it last season, I want them to choose it now. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 01 2018 07:57 outscar wrote: Jungle just needs to resubmit it (and Power Bond, too!).Uzi Sara Uzi Sara barely didn't make it last season, I want them to choose it now. | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
Rick, you could just submit your map on the 3th, right? Just to make sure. well I think so, just asking that, because you know the deal right? different countries, different time zones and so, and yes I think I can submit it on the third, but to be sure I'll try to submit on the second from here, to be more sure | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
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Jukado
805 Posts
MMA_fan_ you say that is your first map? Good job, especially how quickly you made it. Rickv100491 definitely email them your map, its coming along nicely. Delete some cliff from the middle to create 2 side paths, thats an easy win, and add an expansion on the left and right edge. Ive finished my two maps now, havent emailed them yet but if anyone else needs a hand I might be able to help in some way. CrystalDrag are you about? Might need to email maps on his behalf if not. Im assuming Power Bond as one of yours JungleTerrain. Freakling, just make a few new email accounts and send them all! Mustachefreak, piratefreak etc. Probably Id go for Frogstar World B and Eddy. EDIT:@Jungleterrain, just delete the minerals from the mineral only and put them right outside the nats so they are much easier to take. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On January 31 2018 23:34 Rickv100491 wrote: been honest.. One of my favorite maps I've made to enter this contest is this one, I've been working on it really hard.. although I am still working on the second one, which still hasn't had any major changes, just rough sketches for now, buuut making high progress too, although admittedly Freakling, Crystaldrag, JungleTerrain and any other bwmn map maker, are way better map makers than one that just begun a year or so ago to make maps, but hopefully it is good enough to been noticed .Any Feedback is Highly appreciated http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4877 keep it up man! we need more mapmakers! | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On January 31 2018 20:10 Freakling wrote: Not sure what you mean. The only tight chokes there belong to expansions, which need those tight chokes to be more defensible, and are not where main armies have to move through to get from any points A to B on the map. There is a flip side to this, though: Both Gold Rush and particularly Outsider have awkwardly short rushing distances, which are detrimental to balance (p.e. in PvZ on Outsider, where FFE on the low ground seems to be considered not safe by many players, although nat choke design probably also plays a role in this). Or look at maps like Ground Zero or Circuit Breakers, which employ huge chunks of "go-around-terrain" to avoid this very issue. In comparison, I put no major obstacles in players' way on Eddy, and rushing distance is one of the concerns that have been brought up for that map (even though naturals are spaced out far as reasonably possible). Just to make sure we are on the same page, here is how pathfinding on Frogstar actually works: One thing I would say to adjust on frogstar: I don't know how many people will pick up on the fact that the big doodads over the entrances to the thirds are actually just sprites with vision restricting (but fully pathable) tiles underneath. If there's something you could use instead that makes the visual language of the map a little clearer, that would help a lot in communicating how the map actually works. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
On January 31 2018 20:56 MMA_fan_ wrote: Say hello to Uprising! My very first map ever made, in either Starcraft 1 or 2! I went in to this map blind, without having any experience making maps in any game, not really knowing how to work the scmdraft program (and I'm absolutely positive that there are still MANY MANY MANY things that I have yet to learn), but I think that for my first ever map, this one came out okay. I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, but I am planning to enter it in this contest. Let me know what you guys think!! Edit: The image doesn't seem to be loading. Here's the imgur link: https://imgur.com/a/8DvuH This map is impossible to do forge fast expansion on. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10096 Posts
On January 31 2018 20:56 MMA_fan_ wrote: Say hello to Uprising! My very first map ever made, in either Starcraft 1 or 2! I went in to this map blind, without having any experience making maps in any game, not really knowing how to work the scmdraft program (and I'm absolutely positive that there are still MANY MANY MANY things that I have yet to learn), but I think that for my first ever map, this one came out okay. I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, but I am planning to enter it in this contest. Let me know what you guys think!! Edit: The image doesn't seem to be loading. Here's the imgur link: https://imgur.com/a/8DvuH ![[image loading]](http://liquipedia.net/commons/images/thumb/f/f0/189_Chupung-Ryeong.jpg/450px-189_Chupung-Ryeong.jpg) (HMM) | ||
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MMA_fan_
United States35 Posts
I did draw inspiration from CPR for sure, as it's my favorite map that has ever seen professional play. But I think that my map has enough differences that it shouldn't be an issue, so I'm not really sure why you're trying to make one. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10096 Posts
On February 01 2018 16:16 MMA_fan_ wrote: I did draw inspiration from CPR for sure, as it's my favorite map that has ever seen professional play. But I think that my map has enough differences that it shouldn't be an issue, so I'm not really sure why you're trying to make one. You map is too simple and the center is too boring. How is a Terran every supposed to move out against a Protoss? | ||
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MMA_fan_
United States35 Posts
On February 01 2018 16:57 FlaShFTW wrote: You map is too simple and the center is too boring. How is a Terran every supposed to move out against a Protoss? I mean, it's literally my first ever map. I expected people to be finding things wrong with it, and these are things that people will point out to me and that I will fix on this map and keep in mind for future maps that I make. | ||
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oshibori_probe
United States2932 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
Any one with too much time on their hand willing to try develop some new Ash ramps? On February 01 2018 08:19 Rickv100491 wrote: Instead of obsessing over such minute details, maybe you should focus more on the core issues of your maps.well I think so, just asking that, because you know the deal right? different countries, different time zones and so, and yes I think I can submit it on the third, but to be sure I'll try to submit on the second from here, to be more sure On February 01 2018 09:27 JungleTerrain wrote: Seen from that angle – I wonder what they make of that huge pool of map submissions for the ASL4 contest. Would be a pretty bad idea of them to just forget about it, and I doubt any one will really manage to make a map exclusively for ASL5, not a quality map at least, on such short notice. Guess they want to be sure that the map makers stand by to update stuff at their whim. What they really need is better foresight, there is absolutely no need to postpone every step of map selection, testing, updating, introduction, and usually further edits, because for various reasons most maps tend to have some serious flaws (insufficient knowledge about bugs and too little, too late and very superficial, on a technical level, testing being the most important ones) to the latest possible moment. Why can't they plan 3 months in advance – 1 month for submissions, one for testing, updating and selection, and one to actually give players time to learn the map (or make it 2.5 months with only 2 weeks to train on the final version, as players would be involved in testing an selecting anyways)?I’m not submitting anything this time around. Don’t think they would choose Uzi Sara again (they have the map file still anyways, I sent it straight to 910 [kangkuyol], if they actually do want to). And Power Bond I don’t consider finished still (although it’s playable). I would want to make another map or two, but at this time I’m too busy/uninspired. Or they need their own team of map makers. Or both. On February 01 2018 09:40 Jukado wrote:Ive finished my two maps now, havent emailed them yet but if anyone else needs a hand I might be able to help in some way. well, I need Ash ramps that don't look like total garbage in HD graphics…CrystalDrag are you about? Might need to email maps on his behalf if not. Cross Game and Kiseyras? Seriously, they should just use Kiseyras, which was already submitted for ASL4…Freakling, just make a few new email accounts and send them all! Mustachefreak, piratefreak etc. Probably Id go for Frogstar World B and Eddy. I am sure no one would notice @_@ ; especially after I already submitted everything currently on my shortlist, except for Oxide, for ASL4. EDIT:@Jungleterrain, just delete the minerals from the mineral only and put them right outside the nats so they are much easier to take.[/QUOTE] On February 01 2018 10:42 flametitanrose wrote: If you mean the rock sprites, they are actually required to blend the vision blocking terrain to the cliffs properly, so I cannot really remove them. I don't see how it would be hard for people to figure out, anyways. And as for the small shrub doodads I use to mark the vision blockers, that's actually copied directly from how it's done in SC2. There is not established standard for how vision blockers are to be implemented in SC1, as no Korean tournament map (except Mist) has made use of them yet. There should be something to mark them as a broad hint to players that there is something noteworthy is going on, and using those bush sprite is an ideal solution in that regard:One thing I would say to adjust on frogstar: I don't know how many people will pick up on the fact that the big doodads over the entrances to the thirds are actually just sprites with vision restricting (but fully pathable) tiles underneath. If there's something you could use instead that makes the visual language of the map a little clearer, that would help a lot in communicating how the map actually works.
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FlaShFTW
United States10096 Posts
But I think that my map has enough differences that it shouldn't be an issue I'm sorry, but when you say something like this, it just comes off as "oh my map is unique enough to sin CPR to be a good map on its own" without considering what map CPR a good map in the first place. The idea of a relatively straight forward center but wide enough side paths that make side pushes and flanks possible. That is the issue. | ||
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
On January 31 2018 23:34 Rickv100491 wrote: been honest.. One of my favorite maps I've made to enter this contest is this one, I've been working on it really hard.. although I am still working on the second one, which still hasn't had any major changes, just rough sketches for now, buuut making high progress too, although admittedly Freakling, Crystaldrag, JungleTerrain and any other bwmn map maker, are way better map makers than one that just begun a year or so ago to make maps, but hopefully it is good enough to been noticed .Any Feedback is Highly appreciated http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4877 Too easy to split the map. Maybe two narrow corridors on the sides will help | ||
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
On February 01 2018 07:57 outscar wrote: Uzi Sara Uzi Sara barely didn't make it last season, I want them to choose it now. This is a cool map. Really different but still logical. I like it. We can see a lot of new strategy here. | ||
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
Here it is www.panschk.de | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
.. Freakling: Instead of obsessing over such minute details, maybe you should focus more on the core issues of your maps. Ammm.... Core issues....... got it Freakling thanks for the pointer, and I was worried, because the time zone usually helps me concentrate more, like I know until which time I have to upload and so | ||
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Jukado
805 Posts
@ajmbek Im not sure which maps Darkstar will send, many to choose from, my favourite being Outzoned. @JungleTerrain send in Heartbeat or even Gemlong if nothing else, may as well, ASL. | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On February 01 2018 19:46 Freakling wrote: If you mean the rock sprites, they are actually required to blend the vision blocking terrain to the cliffs properly, so I cannot really remove them. I don't see how it would be hard for people to figure out, anyways. And as for the small shrub doodads I use to mark the vision blockers, that's actually copied directly from how it's done in SC2. There is not established standard for how vision blockers are to be implemented in SC1, as no Korean tournament map (except Mist) has made use of them yet. There should be something to mark them as a broad hint to players that there is something noteworthy is going on, and using those bush sprite is an ideal solution in that regard:
Looking at it again in game, it seems my concerns only apply to the 768*768 preview image. In game it's much more intuitive. So I guess the actual remedy is to send the ASL team a larger preview image so they can better see the details of the map. | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
 , although that's gonna be hard to pull off...but who knows?? maybe one day :3 | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
 File:Taebaek Mountains 1.1 map.jpg | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On February 02 2018 22:30 bovienchien wrote: I really like the Taebaek Mountains map. I don't understand people don't like it. http://liquipedia.net/starcraft/File:Taebaek_Mountains_1.1_map.jpg The Reason being..... its basically unplayable hydra busta are unstoppable in pvz just the whole map is to narrow to have a little bit of normal engagement Army movements the map just does not function | ||
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Excalibur
United States58 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/5051.jpg) Map is a remake of NastyMarine's Formula 43 which has been sitting in the BWMN remake thread for ages. I'm a bit iffy right now on the Xel temples blocking the 3rds and the overall lack of expos on the map. Comments welcome. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10666 Posts
On February 03 2018 10:17 Excalibur wrote: I'll be submitting (4)Somersault for this: Map is a remake of NastyMarine's Formula 43 which has been sitting in the BWMN remake thread for ages. I'm a bit iffy right now on the Xel temples blocking the 3rds and the overall lack of expos on the map. Comments welcome. Looks pretty cool actually, Tau cross is a pretty low expansion map as well when you think about it, | ||
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CrystalDrag
173 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4805.jpg) Pathfinding fix version 2.24 | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
@Excalibur: You could replace the Xel'Nagas with whatever, if you think it would help balance/gameplay. And what lack of expos? 4 bases per SL, 3 of them gas, is the perfectly standard amount. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10096 Posts
On February 03 2018 19:03 CrystalDrag wrote: Submitted (4)Kiseyras. + Show Spoiler + Pathfinding fix version 2.24 cross spawn only right? I think that the spawn imbalances are too strong if you dont have it. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 03 2018 20:11 FlaShFTW wrote: cross spawn only right? I think that the spawn imbalances are too strong if you dont have it. This is not SC2… | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 04 2018 02:13 ne4aJIb wrote: Without any clear point of reference, I am just gonna assume you want to tell us what we already know: Yeah, Tanks pretty imba!Damn, tanks seems imba everywhere. | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On February 04 2018 02:24 Freakling wrote: Without any clear point of reference, I am just gonna assume you want to tell us what we already know: Yeah, Tanks pretty imba! So many more map designs would be viable if tanks didn't have such a long range... | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On February 04 2018 01:59 Freakling wrote: For now I submitted (2)Oxide and (3)Frogstar as my candidates (I think a 2 player map adds a bit more diversity). I just linked to the mediafire archive containing all my submissions for ASL4, as a subtle hint how detrimental that arbitrary 2 map limitation actually is ;D Both maps have received some final updates (added a 7th patch to the mineral onlies on Frogstar and fixed a bunch of potential pathfinding bugs). ![[image loading]](http://liquipedia.net/commons/images/e/e4/-STL1-%282%29Oxide_1.04.jpg) Oxide it looks like eye candy to me beautifully made I do see a lot of same type of map features as in matchpoint ie sieges up expansions from low ground etc but it looks like a really interesting map ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4879.jpg) Frogstar Curious about how the map would do gameplay wise, those narrow corridores in the center probably will ruin nice gameplay ( nice flanks /engagements) Just chances are it will be some silly drop play & harassment map but I guess it’s worth a shot | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10096 Posts
wasnt there an edit in the map editor where you could force that to happen? I think I recall some other map thread having it but I could be mistaken. Anyways, I still believe that positional imbalances are too strong on this map that unless it has forced cross spawn it wouldnt be selected. | ||
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Excalibur
United States58 Posts
On February 04 2018 09:13 onlystar wrote: Frogstar Curious about how the map would do gameplay wise, those narrow corridores in the center probably will ruin nice gameplay ( nice flanks /engagements) Just chances are it will be some silly drop play & harassment map but I guess it’s worth a shot Keep in mind the majority of the ridges in Frogster are walkable. Only the cliffs directly next to and across from the expos are not walkable. | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
Like infact sieged up behind the ridge you can’t even use those pathways without groundunits getting killed off before even reaching a front where they can make contact with tanks | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 04 2018 18:39 onlystar wrote: Yeh to get you’re army to the next nat /main for an attach you would need to move you’re army trough that center which seems like a huge pain to get a cross making gameplay pretty static when it comes to frontal attacks Like infact sieged up behind the ridge you can’t even use those pathways without groundunits getting killed off before even reaching a front where they can make contact with tanks A lot more of the terrain is walkable than you probably think: + Show Spoiler [show images] + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/XQgvU2U.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/1CCnPIf.jpg) | ||
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
yes seeing frogstar like this makes it look very good | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On February 03 2018 19:03 CrystalDrag wrote: Submitted (4)Kiseyras. + Show Spoiler + Pathfinding fix version 2.24 This best map, It looks like the python map but it has a lot of resources than. Amazing map. I will vote this map as soon as possible. Thank you for create this map. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
frog and ox...man I wish blizz added those maps in our ladder. they look amazing. | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On February 04 2018 22:38 Golgotha wrote: freakling, that looks so amazing and so creative. I hope you win! frog and ox...man I wish blizz added those maps in our ladder. they look amazing. I've not placed on Oxide but Frogstar is definitely a different map. The ramps and vision blocking bushes enable it to feel a lot tighter than it actually is, giving a soft encouragement to have air units and possibly AA in order to see what's going on around you. My main concern is how everyone seems to think that the ramps are solid cliffs, which is definitely not good when trying to get people interested. @Freakling I hope you sent them some clarifications on how the map actually works, so that the judges don't make that mistake either. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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CrystalDrag
173 Posts
From email 바쁜 일정 중에도 최선을 다해 공모전을 준비해주신 CrystalDrag님의 열정에도 불구하고, 아쉽게도 1차 심사에 합격하지 못하였음을 통보 드립니다. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49889 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
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Excalibur
United States58 Posts
On February 07 2018 14:26 CrystalDrag wrote: I received my email rejection thirty minutes ago, how did others do? From email Mine was rejected without any specific reason given as well. RIP. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2031 Posts
Both Freakling maps are beautiful and interesting, but at the same time very difficult for zerg. 3rd base on Oxide? Literally impossible vs 5 rax. 3rd base on Frogstar? Well maybe you can get it in other main, but it's very far from main base to reinforce. Also, very big drop potential for 12 and 4 oclock, while 7 is rather safe (again - zerg is going to struggle with holding 3rd or main always). On top of that terran can secure 5 bases with just 2 armies. So... I expect hosts to select zerg favorable maps again, and none of freakling maps is zerg favour. | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On February 07 2018 18:32 Excalibur wrote: Mine was rejected without any specific reason given as well. RIP. Their reason is didn't agree with your map. Poor you. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
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Jukado
805 Posts
@NegativeZero and JungleTerrain, did you send in maps in the end? | ||
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Excalibur
United States58 Posts
On February 07 2018 19:32 bovienchien wrote: Their reason is didn't agree with your map. Poor you. Didn't agree with what exactly? Asking for people to take the time to craft a submission and then say 'sorry but no' with nothing constructive to go back and improve on is a bit disrespectful, no? This is worse in my opinion for people like Jungle and Freak who put hours upon hours into making sure the vision of every ramp and the mining of each min patch are up to par. Its fine to reject our submissions, but taking a few moments to be clear as to why isn't too much to ask for what needs to be put in. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
Let's hope there will be some forwarded player feedback or something like that in the future. | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On February 08 2018 00:19 Freakling wrote: they probably don'w want to make individual write-ups for dozens or hundreds of maps that don't even make it on the shortlist. Basically this. I doubt there are THAT many people working on this aspect of ASL. | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On February 07 2018 18:18 StylishVODs wrote: Seems as frogstar have pathing issues when moving from 7 oclock base to 12 oclock. Units gets stuck at the left center expansion. I think this is pretty crucial as the main path from one main to another is blocked like this. Are you sure? I downloaded the newest and I could send dragoons to-fro past it just fine. They're bouncing off the base and move to the ramp above it On February 07 2018 18:47 kogeT wrote: I have a feeling that none of Freakling maps will be accepted for a sad reason. All ASL maps from last season were somewhat zerg favourable - free 3 bases, gold rush with safe expos at back, gladiator with small bases and lots of high ground. Both Freakling maps are beautiful and interesting, but at the same time very difficult for zerg. 3rd base on Oxide? Literally impossible vs 5 rax. 3rd base on Frogstar? Well maybe you can get it in other main, but it's very far from main base to reinforce. Also, very big drop potential for 12 and 4 oclock, while 7 is rather safe (again - zerg is going to struggle with holding 3rd or main always). On top of that terran can secure 5 bases with just 2 armies. So... I expect hosts to select zerg favorable maps again, and none of freakling maps is zerg favour. What's wrong with taking the third that's next to your main? It's not an island base. EDIT: And I don't mean the big open one. I mean the one that's to the opposite of the natural. There's gas there. | ||
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
On February 08 2018 00:19 Freakling wrote: they probably don'w want to make individual write-ups for dozens or hundreds of maps that don't even make it on the shortlist. This is quite true for any thing, that involve this kind of submissions no matter where you send, although not everyone out there will tell you it's not good and so, any ways... thing is, Frogstar Is a different map which makes players to try and play "differently", at least, that's the minium I think that Freakling was going for, but I dunno, he's the mind behind it. | ||
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Jukado
805 Posts
"Thank you very much for applying for the ASL Season 5 Map Contest. Despite the passion for preparing the contest, I am sorry to inform you that I have not passed the first round of the examination. I look forward to your continued interest in ASL Season 5, and hope to see you in a better way. Again, I sincerely appreciate your interest and sincerity in the competition." | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 07 2018 18:18 StylishVODs wrote: Seems as frogstar have pathing issues when moving from 7 oclock base to 12 oclock. Units gets stuck at the left center expansion. I think this is pretty crucial as the main path from one main to another is blocked like this. This is the kind of thing that now can be greatly ameliorated by not changing much about the layout at all, but just some clever manipulation of pathfinding regions. Unfortunately that is also exactly the kind of multi-hour (probably) trial and error job that I simply cannot find the time to do right now. This is why longer deadlines and better communications would be so much needed… | ||
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Shinrei
United States236 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
On February 08 2018 13:57 Golgotha wrote: the process should be more transparent imo. wish the fans could vote. I assume that will be the second round. After all, they've only said people have been rejected for the first round. | ||
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flametitanrose
11 Posts
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
flametitanrose EDIT: Double post. Meant to hit edit Is that even possible???.... aaaaand Golgota: the process should be more transparent imo. wish the fans could vote. The thing that is supposed to happen, is that 50% votes are from the asl comitee people, and 50% are from the people that like how the maps look in the end, soooo it's kinda gonna be fair? | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Rickv100491
Ecuador29 Posts
maybe | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On February 08 2018 07:32 Freakling wrote: This is the kind of thing that now can be greatly ameliorated by not changing much about the layout at all, but just some clever manipulation of pathfinding regions. Unfortunately that is also exactly the kind of multi-hour (probably) trial and error job that I simply cannot find the time to do right now. This is why longer deadlines and better communications would be so much needed… Have you heard anything about your submissions? | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
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Jukado
805 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/HSeKwJf.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/MuMCvtP.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6mliPgN.jpg) Originally posted on tl here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/525290-information-from-korea?page=81#1607 Thanks K.H.J ASL 5 New Map candidates. if you want to download it, then go here. https://blog.naver.com/kangkuyol/221206946806 it is 910's blog. https://goo.gl/forms/t2kziekI1oynGH682 <- vote https://starleague.kr/ <-participate in prelimenary and, one more information about preliminary maps. Neo Jade will be replaced by Gladiator. So, Preliminary maps are FS / Gladiator / Matchpoint And, tommorrow, AfreecaTV CEO will hold a meeting with 40 SCR ex-pros. it will be a closed meetng. so IDK the contents of the meeting. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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[AS]Rattus
427 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Zerg can mine normally. Seems like a balance fix to try and fix island maps. | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/kZ1UFzp.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/g58fNxl.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/PySRFPX.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/OwyNqpR.png) it seems though that this isn't possible in all positions. It is doable in topleft and topright, however bottom right its really hard and bottomleft nearly impossible. | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/dLPXnLy.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/epR37uV.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/WwX0kF9.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/yqxTzU8.png) glitching seems to be possible because of asymmetric pathfinding regions. I believe this would be an easy fix that has been overlooked, wont probably matter but it could. | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On February 13 2018 09:01 Ikirouta wrote: Okay, I did more testing and it seems that the shape of the crystal sprite is causing this issue. Easiest fix would be to swap it for a sprite that has a symmetric shape. Look at collision boxes, assimilators extractora and refineries are different. This is probably what causes the difference. And see if they were placed off grid or not (very fine-fine) What is the intended interaction that Waldstein was looking for here anyway? A gas for Zerg only? Seems glitchy based on your tests | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10096 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4817 Posts
I have always felt cheated because when I finally found out there was a BW proscene, island maps weren't ever played anymore. If island maps can ever make a comeback, I'm sure Flash's brain is going to do some overtime once more. *fingers crossed* + Show Spoiler + Haters don't you dare quoting me! Edit: Unfortunately this mappool doesn't even look close to good enough to finally exile FS :\ | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2544 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
New non-standard maps can do two things as I see it. -novelty factor (can increase audience interest => viewership) -possible skewing of racial balance (to help struggling zergs, protoss, terran, etc.). | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
Anyway, just from some quick glances: (3)Transistor: Clone of an old SC2 concept. We have plenty of maps of that kind on BWMN (Jungle's (3)Miss You for example) and my argument has always been that they'd basically be impossible to balance for BW meta, because of the backdoor, the impossibility to set up proper FEs/defenses and the very linear nature of between base pathing resulting from this type of layout. (2)Bulkeunsiwol (or something like that): Another highly problematic backdoor, Can't see details on the picture, though. (2)Circulator: Basically a Chain Reaction clone, but with changed terrain profile with standard high ground main/low ground nat. So overall pretty legitimate concept. (4)Sunburst: Way too basic 4 player layout with another backdoor thrown in to make it more interesting. I need to look at it in editor to see if the backdoor is at all secured against early runbys (EDIT: They aren't, so good luck in PvZ…). Either way, I think there is already too much thrown in in terms of obstrucive terrain (look at those overly long nat chokes, for example), just to make those backdoors somewhat work. for my taste. (4)Sparkle: The layout is absolutely cookie cutter, but I guess the fact that they are considering an island map at all and that a reasonable attempt was made to balance it for Zerg with the help of modernized map mechanics makes it an interesting option. EDIT: There's also a lot of creep for building Nydus Canals around the map, which is nice. Take note, Blizzard: This is why we need creep spawners back! (3)Syliphide: Solid 3 player map. Not my personal favourite of LatiAs', but his maps are generally exceptionally well made and I have studied it in detail before, so at the very least I know I won't have to write any extensive bug report on this one once I've studied them in the editor and done some in-game testing. Some quick runthrough of basic bug checking (I'll keep this list updated as best I can ; serious bugs with strong/likely impact on balance and gameplay will be in red, blue marks bugs which pose a serious problem, but need not be addressed right away, as they pertain to pathfinding and fixing some of the other bugs listed might solve the problam as a by-effect, suggestions for fixes will be in green): (3)Transistor (as of v.0.94):
(2)Bulkeunsiwol (Red October) (as of v.0.92):
(2)Circulator (as of v.0.92):
(4)Sunburst (as of v.0.91):
(4)Sparkle (as of v.0.96):
(3)Syliphide (as of v.1.5):
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TT1
Canada9990 Posts
That said, 1 balance issue on Syliphide is that Protoss doesn't have a good 3rd to take if they spawn at ~8 vs a ~5 oclock T. The regular 3rd (on the grass tileset) is too easy to push (short rush distance to T's nat and the ramp isn't positioned well) and the only other option is a mineral only base with a lot of harass potential, so imo that expo (grassy 3rd with gas) needs to be re-assessed. Every other position is fine tho. | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
Stork is checking out the maps if anyone wants to check the maps in motion EDIT LatiAs is also there in the chat! | ||
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TT1
Canada9990 Posts
On February 13 2018 20:36 Superouman wrote: Looks like the theme of this map pack is "Path behind the main" Gives more angles to harass with mutas vs T (you can now harass behind the mineral line with an escape route), T's cant cut off an entire zone with 3-4 turrets like they can on regular maps. They're forced to make more turrets, gives Z more harass potential. Well that's the main thing i took away from it. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On February 01 2018 02:39 atrox_ wrote: someone keep qikz away from this thread lol why? | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
[*]For the potential issues with the Kaydarin geysers I need some in-game investigation first, but to address something suggested above: For geysers that are permanently mineable only by Zerg, Kaydarin Crystals are the only option, because they are the only building unit with invincibility hard-coded into their unit properties (you can make other buildings invincible, but for that you need to use triggers or place them as units, both of which are not compatible with melee maps). this is untrue, you can glitch workers to permanently mine as terran and protoss in some positions. I tested it, has to be fixed. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 13 2018 22:04 Ikirouta wrote: this is untrue, you can glitch workers to permanently mine as terran and protoss in some positions. I tested it, has to be fixed. As I said, I need to investigate that in-game. No idea why that would work, but if it does, then it does of course constitute a significant (map-breaking) problem. The point is that in that case there'd be no easy fix (probably none at all). As a starting point: Can you give some detailed explanation as to what you did to force workers to auto-mine and in what positions it does/doesn't work? | ||
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LatiAs
27 Posts
On February 13 2018 19:46 Freakling wrote: If I'd known they're looking for completely crazy this time, I'd have send them Incidicence or something… Anyway, just from some quick glances: (3)Transistor: Clone of an old SC2 concept. We have plenty of maps of that kind on BWMN (Jungle's (3)Miss You for example) and my argument has always been that they'd basically be impossible to balance for BW meta, because of the backdoor, the impossibility to set up proper FEs/defenses and the very linear nature of between base pathing resulting from this type of layout. (2)Bulkeunsiwol (or something like that): Another highly problematic backdoor, Can't see details on the picture, though. (2)Circulator: Basically a Chain Reaction clone, but with changed terrain profile with standard high ground main/low ground nat. So overall pretty legitimate concept. (4)Sunburst: Way too basic 4 player layout with another backdoor thrown in to make it more interesting. I need to look at it in editor to see if the backdoor is at al secured against early runbys. Either way, I think there is already too much thrown in in terms of obstrucive terrain (look at those overly long nat chokes, for example), just to make those backdoors somewhat work. for my taste. (4)Sparkle: The layout is absolutely cookie cutter, but I guess the fact that they are considering an island map at all and that a reasonable attempt was made to balance it for Zerg with the help of modernized map mechanics makes it an interesting option. (3)Syliphide: Solid 3 player map. Not my personal favourite of LatiAs', but his maps are generally exceptionally well made and I have studied it in detail before, so at the very least I know I won't have to write any extensive bug report on this one once I've studied them in the editor and done some in-game testing. Some quick runthrough of basic bug checking: (3)Transistor:
(2)Bulkeunsiwol:
(2)Circulator:
(4)Sunburst:
(4)Sparkle:
(3)Syliphide:
Thx for review, and It's 'Sylphide', not Syliphide. btw, what is 'Ultra-Voltex bug'? | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 13 2018 22:14 LatiAs wrote: Sorry for the misspelling/misreading. Could you explain the map name? I actually have no idea what it refers to. (EDIT: Actually, seems like the English wikipedia just can't keep up with, for example, the French or German ones + Show Spoiler + On February 13 2018 19:46 Freakling wrote: If I'd known they're looking for completely crazy this time, I'd have send them Incidicence or something… Anyway, just from some quick glances: (3)Transistor: Clone of an old SC2 concept. We have plenty of maps of that kind on BWMN (Jungle's (3)Miss You for example) and my argument has always been that they'd basically be impossible to balance for BW meta, because of the backdoor, the impossibility to set up proper FEs/defenses and the very linear nature of between base pathing resulting from this type of layout. (2)Bulkeunsiwol (or something like that): Another highly problematic backdoor, Can't see details on the picture, though. (2)Circulator: Basically a Chain Reaction clone, but with changed terrain profile with standard high ground main/low ground nat. So overall pretty legitimate concept. (4)Sunburst: Way too basic 4 player layout with another backdoor thrown in to make it more interesting. I need to look at it in editor to see if the backdoor is at al secured against early runbys. Either way, I think there is already too much thrown in in terms of obstrucive terrain (look at those overly long nat chokes, for example), just to make those backdoors somewhat work. for my taste. (4)Sparkle: The layout is absolutely cookie cutter, but I guess the fact that they are considering an island map at all and that a reasonable attempt was made to balance it for Zerg with the help of modernized map mechanics makes it an interesting option. (3)Syliphide: Solid 3 player map. Not my personal favourite of LatiAs', but his maps are generally exceptionally well made and I have studied it in detail before, so at the very least I know I won't have to write any extensive bug report on this one once I've studied them in the editor and done some in-game testing. Some quick runthrough of basic bug checking: (3)Transistor:
(2)Bulkeunsiwol:
(2)Circulator:
(4)Sunburst:
(4)Sparkle:
(3)Syliphide:
Thx for review, and It's 'Sylphide', not Syliphide. btw, what is 'Ultra-Voltex bug'? )An Ultra-vortex bug is a vortex bug (units getting stacked and stuck on terrain, like on Demon's Forest or top ramp on FS) where only Ultralisks can get stuck. The cause is a pathfinding node too close to unwalkable terrain (if its unwalkable terrain on the same tile, its a normal vortex bug, where most units can get stuck, if its unwalkable terrain on a tile adjacent to the left or right, it only affects Ultra, due to their wide collision box). Could you translate/forward my bugs to the other map makers/organizers? EDIT: Why do I get "HTTPS access is only available to TL Staff. Please use www.teamliquid.net." whenever I try to post something? | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
On February 13 2018 22:12 Freakling wrote: As I said, I need to investigate that in-game. No idea why that would work, but if it does, then it does of course constitute a significant (map-breaking) problem. The point is that in that case there'd be no easy fix (probably none at all). As a starting point: Can you give some detailed explanation as to what you did to force workers to auto-mine and in what positions it does/doesn't work? I posted pictures earlier in this thread. You block sides of the gas with buildings (preferably turrets or pylons). Gather up a clump of workers by clicking on the gas, block unbuildable areas around the gas with other units, select your stack of workers, click over the gas so they glitch in (like mineralwalking) and spam glick gather on the gas. Usually it would take 2-3 tries for me to get a worker in. In order for the worker to return to the gas once its out, you have to place 2 units on hold position on path it uses to return the gas to a cc/nexus. It takes a lot of effort, so thats why I am wondering if its worth at all. As I mentioned earlier in this thread " It is doable in topleft and topright, however bottom right its really hard and bottomleft nearly impossible.". For some reason, if the gas is positioned so that the workers have to face right to return the minerals, you don't need to block the left side of the gas with other workers to glitch them in. I have no idea why. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 13 2018 22:50 Ikirouta wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On February 13 2018 22:12 Freakling wrote: As I said, I need to investigate that in-game. No idea why that would work, but if it does, then it does of course constitute a significant (map-breaking) problem. The point is that in that case there'd be no easy fix (probably none at all). As a starting point: Can you give some detailed explanation as to what you did to force workers to auto-mine and in what positions it does/doesn't work? I posted pictures earlier in this thread. You block sides of the gas with buildings (preferably turrets or pylons). Gather up a clump of workers by clicking on the gas, block unbuildable areas around the gas with other units, select your stack of workers, click over the gas so they glitch in (like mineralwalking) and spam glick gather on the gas. Usually it would take 2-3 tries for me to get a worker in. In order for the worker to return to the gas once its out, you have to place 2 units on hold position on path it uses to return the gas to a cc/nexus. It takes a lot of effort, so thats why I am wondering if its worth at all. As I mentioned earlier in this thread " It is doable in topleft and topright, however bottom right its really hard and bottomleft nearly impossible.". For some reason, if the gas is positioned so that the workers have to face right to return the minerals, you don't need to block the left side of the gas with other workers to glitch them in. I have no idea why. So its a ton of resources and APM spent to glitch single workers in and gain the occasional 8 additional gas (while losing a ton of resources for all those workers basically idling around instead of, say, mine a depleted geyser). I don't think this is a problem at all in actual gameplay. It's simply not worth it. Unless you can find a way to glitch workers at a constant rate during auto-mining (which in theory should not be possible for P/T), I think there is no actual issue. EDIT: Reading again, you wrote that you could get workers to mine permanently. I could not yet reproduce this, though. | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
On February 13 2018 23:41 Freakling wrote: So its a ton of resources and APM spent to glitch single workers in and gain the occasional 8 additional gas (while losing a ton of resources for all those workers basically idling around instead of, say, mine a depleted geyser). I don't think this is a problem at all in actual gameplay. It's simply not worth it. Unless you can find a way to glitch workers at a constant rate during auto-mining (which in theory should not be possible for P/T), I think there is no actual issue. EDIT: Reading again, you wrote that you could get workers to mine permanently. I could not yet reproduce this, though. Its a ton of APM to put one worker in, and tons of afk units to keep them going in. Its not worth it, all I'm saying that its possible, but its not worth it. | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 14 2018 02:24 JungleTerrain wrote: What sense would protecting them even make? It would only make bug finding a lot harder.Uploaded all the maps on broodwarmaps.net. This time seems like they didn’t even bother to protect them. And the map with the Korean name, I’ve just been calling Red October. Google translate is always funny: "Foreskin mineral" O_o :D "The general homepage was removed from the front yard structure" @_@ "This gas can only be slaughtered (that is, it can be gassed to build an extractor)" ??!?! + Show Spoiler + You monsters, leave those poor geysers alone! "refineries and aspirators" + Show Spoiler + Come to think about it, gas mining via an aspirator would actually be way more efficient than the current method. "Other nostalgia are separated by a neutral building" :\ Whatevvvaaaa… "Although the gas multi is more important than the gas multi" Relation does not compute… "gas multimodal" …itiwise thingamajig… "control of the right of provision" + Show Spoiler + You require more provisions! – Always! "command center anti-flyover mineral on the turtleneck" + Show Spoiler + (??)>🐢 "Tooth v Terran was terribly hard on Terran"+ Show Spoiler + It definitely sounds painful, and not only for the Terran: I wouldn't want to bite a Tank. But maybe that's just me. Maybe they are tasty, who knows? + Show Spoiler + Maybe ask a Zergling? "Map Style: Combined Mystique Map" + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
Yes LatiAs is korean. I'm not sure if he's out of his military service yet though. | ||
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SBL-Keias
32 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/530941-2ksspace ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/XPMwaIk.jpg) | ||
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FOXin
China15 Posts
no problem On February 13 2018 08:30 Ikirouta wrote: Sparkle features some interesting map mechanics, especially the crystals in main which are places so terran and protoss can't mine from the 2nd gas but zerg can. Atleast I think thats how its supposed to work. I did some testing and found out that it is possible for protoss and terran to mine this gas thought, but not in all positions. it seems though that this isn't possible in all positions. It is doable in topleft and topright, however bottom right its really hard and bottomleft nearly impossible. | ||
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FOXin
China15 Posts
On February 13 2018 19:46 Freakling wrote: If I'd known they're looking for completely crazy this time, I'd have send them Incidicence or something… Anyway, just from some quick glances: (3)Transistor: Clone of an old SC2 concept. We have plenty of maps of that kind on BWMN (Jungle's (3)Miss You for example) and my argument has always been that they'd basically be impossible to balance for BW meta, because of the backdoor, the impossibility to set up proper FEs/defenses and the very linear nature of between base pathing resulting from this type of layout. (2)Bulkeunsiwol (or something like that): Another highly problematic backdoor, Can't see details on the picture, though. (2)Circulator: Basically a Chain Reaction clone, but with changed terrain profile with standard high ground main/low ground nat. So overall pretty legitimate concept. (4)Sunburst: Way too basic 4 player layout with another backdoor thrown in to make it more interesting. I need to look at it in editor to see if the backdoor is at al secured against early runbys. Either way, I think there is already too much thrown in in terms of obstrucive terrain (look at those overly long nat chokes, for example), just to make those backdoors somewhat work. for my taste. (4)Sparkle: The layout is absolutely cookie cutter, but I guess the fact that they are considering an island map at all and that a reasonable attempt was made to balance it for Zerg with the help of modernized map mechanics makes it an interesting option. (3)Syliphide: Solid 3 player map. Not my personal favourite of LatiAs', but his maps are generally exceptionally well made and I have studied it in detail before, so at the very least I know I won't have to write any extensive bug report on this one once I've studied them in the editor and done some in-game testing. Some quick runthrough of basic bug checking: (3)Transistor:
(2)Bulkeunsiwol:
(2)Circulator:
(4)Sunburst:
(4)Sparkle:
(3)Syliphide:
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 14 2018 14:19 FOXin wrote: Yes，(2)Circulator have the “Ultra-Vortex” bug ，it's realy a black hole Lol, I actually overlooked that one, though it's a real biggie of an issue… The one I have listed is on the right-hand edge of the main (these things tend to be on right side, due to nodes being placed right off centre of a region, probably due to coordiante rounding). | ||
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Ikirouta
Finland727 Posts
yes, it is SUPPOSED to be a ZERG ONLY gas. But it is possible for protoss and terran to mine it. I talked over how earlier in the thread. This is cause by the asymmetrical shape of the spire on top of the gas. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Well, there's also a 66% chance of getting a widescreen friendly main on Transistor too, oh and 33% on sylphide, 50% on sparkle. So yeah, I think it's fair to say that widescreen is buffed with these maps? | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
On February 14 2018 04:01 JungleTerrain wrote: Lol Freakling. Yes LatiAs is korean. I'm not sure if he's out of his military service yet though. When Stork reviewed the new maps yesterday LatiAs actually joined the chat and commented on there. So if anyone knows Korean they can check what he has to say in this VOD: http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/30782005#n Map review starts from 1 hour 5 minutes mark, not sure when exactly he joins. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 15 2018 04:38 PVJ wrote: When Stork reviewed the new maps yesterday LatiAs actually joined the chat and commented on there. So if anyone knows Korean they can check what he has to say in this VOD: http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/30782005#n Map review starts from 1 hour 5 minutes mark, not sure when exactly he joins. I don't have time to watch it at the moment, nor do I even speak Korean. Could some one give a tldr if there's anything interesting in it? | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
I'm going to be playing/getting people to play these maps for a long time for sure! | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On February 15 2018 13:59 Golgotha wrote: qikz, how do you get people to play the maps? you have a group of buddies or do randoms just come in and play? I run tournaments >:D | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 15 2018 16:25 JungleTerrain wrote: Mind you the maps were updated. I will have to update the bwmn threads soon. Not much has changed, though, in fact some have more new bugs now than old ones have been fixed (and I found a few more old ones as well). Check my bug log in a previous post, I try keeping it up to date as best as I find the time. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On February 15 2018 18:06 Freakling wrote: Not much has changed, though, in fact some have more new bugs now than old ones have been fixed (and I found a few more old ones as well). Check my bug log in a previous post, I try keeping it up to date as best as I find the time. Sparkle has changed a lot. They've removed all the neutral creeps (minus the Hives) | ||
GTR
51398 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1526 Posts
On February 15 2018 22:37 GTR wrote: what is the purpose of the mineral formation at the main bases on the new version of transistor? You mean the Khaydarin Crystals (are they new? They were already in the first version I DLed)? The purpose is to permanently block the 3rd spawn from being taken as an expo (at least not in an efficient manner) it seems ; they also cause stack bugs (you can build on top of your initial Resource Depot). On February 15 2018 22:04 Qikz wrote: Sparkle has changed a lot. They've removed all the neutral creeps (minus the Hives) Trivial change, big impact. I am more concerned about how badly most of these maps have been debugged again, not even meeting the basic standards Afreeca explicitely asked for. | ||
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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